HMS Queen Elizabeth

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HMS Queen Elizabeth

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16 August 2017 at 18:51 #72661
Colin Bishop
Moderator
@colinbishop34627
My daughter and I got up at 3:30 am to drive down to Portsmouth to view the entry of HMS Queen Elizabeth into her home port.. Here are a few photos. The event will be featured in a Gallery in Model Boats Magazine.

Colin

Edited By Colin Bishop, Website Editor on 16/08/2017 18:52:57
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16 August 2017 at 18:51 #9504
Colin Bishop
Moderator
@colinbishop34627
Arrival at Portsmouth 16 August 2017
16 August 2017 at 19:09 #72662
ashley needham
Participant
@ashleyneedham69188
Colin. You are so keen:

I was going to say what other country would comission an aircraft carrier with no aircraft, or the prospect of any reasonable amount of aircraft for many years, but I wont. It is too painful a subject.

Ashley.

Edited By ashley needham on 16/08/2017 19:10:13

Edited By ashley needham on 16/08/2017 19:10:26

Edited By ashley needham on 16/08/2017 19:10:45

Edited By ashley needham on 16/08/2017 19:10:52
16 August 2017 at 19:37 #72664
Colin Bishop
Moderator
@colinbishop34627
Well, it's supposed to have a 40 year service life so there is scope to compensate for culpable political inadequacies.

I must say that having watched previous carriers being towed away for demolition it was nice to see one coming the other way at last.

Big flat tops will always come in useful.

Colin
16 August 2017 at 20:19 #72666
Dave Milbourn
Participant
@davemilbourn48782
Well, it's supposed to have a 40 year service life

The Top Brass were talking about 50 years this morning…..but that's inflation for you.

Big flat tops will always come in useful.

Especially this type…..

Gonna get me one o' they some time soon….

DM
16 August 2017 at 23:49 #72667
David Wooley
Participant
@davidwooley82563
I was in Portsmouth last week for 3 days but just couldn't extend my stay . Great shots Colin and I would have loved to have been there .I'll have to wait till QE comes to Liverpool . I just wonder how long it will be before we see a working model or static model .
17 August 2017 at 08:46 #72669
Tony Hadley
Participant
@tonyhadley
Good photographs Colin.

David,

A 1:350 scale, commissioned model was produced by plastic kit manufacturer Airfix back in 2014 –

**LINK**

I read this item from 2014 and apparently it was released as a kit, but caused some upset as there were no aircraft –

**LINK**

The latest news says the company aren't in a rush to produce a model which will appear in the shops –

**LINK**

There was also a 1:200 scale model of the carrier back in 2008 –

**LINK**
17 August 2017 at 10:50 #72673
David Wooley
Participant
@davidwooley82563
Hi Tony yes I recall taking a few pictures of the Airfix model of QE at the IPMS Scale Model World Telford .back in 2013. I asked then if such a model was on the cards ,the reply was possibly but only when the full size vessel is commissioned. With Gerry Hitch of Jecabin no longer producing good working modellers draughts of RN warships that does limit the availability of a good representative drawings . I do hope there is some one out their ready to have a go but Gerry Hitch was a past master and even with the limited information of the hull form could turn to a produce a drawing which was hard to beat. Jecabin drawings of course are still available.
17 August 2017 at 15:11 #72676
Paul T
Participant
@pault84577
Hello Colin

We should all thank you and your daughter for making the long drive and securing some very useful photographs. I hope that you can claim the fuel back as a business expense.

Hello Ashley

Even though I think that this ship is one of the best examples of current maritime design I have to agree that without operational aircraft it is something of a white elephant but I'm sure the Royal Navy will make the best use of both ships with helicopters and existing fixed wing aircraft.

Hindsight is a wonderful thing but which idiot thought that it would be a good idea to commission the building of two aircraft carriers without ordering a few planes as well. Its not as if it is a difficult decision….after all the clue is in the name Aircraft Carrier.

Hello David

I am sure that, even as we discuss this matter, someone somewhere is toiling over a CAD screen producing a set of drawings for the model enthusiast. Its a good job that people like yourself and Colin are so diligent in taking detailed photographs as they can be an invaluable source of information for whomever might be undertaking the task.

I would imagine that the final scale might be a matter of debate given the huge size of the ship, should the scale be large enough so the the model builder might use 'Airfix' type models as deck ornamentation or should the model be small enough to fit into a family car?

Perhaps the issue of scale might be discussed here as I am sure that many people will have an opinion.

Paul
17 August 2017 at 15:36 #72678
ashley needham
Participant
@ashleyneedham69188
There are two issues with aircraft carrier models.

First is having planes to populate the deck with. Its what carriers are all about. I have yet to see small enough F35B models to suit, although it may be possible to mould your own at this small size…..leading on to…

Secondly the size. As big as possible really but what is a car sized model??? about 5 foot long in my car and of course bearing in mind the width of the thing. Any larger and there are serious transport issues.

A 5 foot model would be about 15 inches wide?? I think that's about right.. A very reasonable "presence" on the pond.

Ashley
17 August 2017 at 18:13 #72683
Paul T
Participant
@pault84577
Ashley

The model can always be built in sections and assembled at the lakeside, or transported on a trailer.

Paul
17 August 2017 at 20:11 #72685
David Wooley
Participant
@davidwooley82563
Hi Paul and Ashley Looking at the size of QE it's not that much smaller than the Nimitz class of US carriers . Keeping that in mind it reminds me of the 1:144 scale carriers built by Paul Bannon and how he has solved some of the issues raised here regarding a working model of the QE.

1 For transport Paul Bannon has divided his hull of just under 7ft into two manageable sections which can be transported in specially constructed cradles that slot into the rear of his vehicle with room to spare.

2 For lifting his USS Harry S Truman Paul uses the simple but effective expedient of a small aluminium ladder

For a single piece hull then even the relatively small scale of 1:144 can become a transport problem .Perhaps 1:192 would be more suitable giving a model of around 5ft in length a size Ashly made mention of. Of course that still leaves the problem of modellers draughts . The underwater detail is partly known as there are plenty of pictures out there on the net but it's refining those pictures to give a suitable hull form that a model make can interpret .
18 August 2017 at 08:36 #72686
ashley needham
Participant
@ashleyneedham69188
David. That is an impressive model. Even more impressive is the support engineering that goes with it!!

There is a third aspect to all this and that is storage. The Harry S is demonstrably transportable, but the footprint of this model in the shed/garage is considerable, and one assumes he has a hard top cover for storage (not used for transportation).

It is a shame that, once the island(s) and plug in aircraft have been removed, the ship could not fold in half like a pasting table ….

If you have a large model, you just have to have a lot of space to put it somewhere!

Ashley
18 August 2017 at 10:19 #72688
Tony Hadley
Participant
@tonyhadley
David,

Returning back to the small scale HMS Queen Elizabeth, I had a look in the digital archive at you article and it was in the February 2014 issue. Always good to see your Telford reports, I sometimes like a change and build a plastic (static) kit. In our NW region the IPMS are in Bolton and have a show in the winter months, although I doubt ships/boats will be well represented. Had Airfix launched a model it would have solved some of the problems in building an r/c version, just up-scale the kit.

Must say I changed the subscription to print+digital to allow access to past magazines (for reading such as this), how many times have I wished I had kept that issue! and it still works out cheaper than the WHS/Newsagents price.
18 August 2017 at 10:48 #72689
David Wooley
Participant
@davidwooley82563
Ashely

From past experience your comments regarding the practicalities of storage of large models is spot on . The other major difficulty in building any model over 5ft is the complication of turning the model through 190 if like me your model ship building facility is a small 8×4 shed at the bottom of the garden with most of the airbrushings undertaken out of doors on a very calm day , which is no bad thing .

Tony

I completely endorse what you say regards the use of a small scale injection model to build a larger scale replica . This I did to some extent when I built the Soviet helicopter carrier Moskva . Although I had a very basic set of modellers draughts and some excellent photos of the full size vessel the old 1:350 Airfix model was a big asset .
18 August 2017 at 11:20 #72690
Dave Milbourn
Participant
@davemilbourn48782
One of our customers from the west country had a similar problem when his model railway layout began to threaten his existence…………….so he bought the bungalow next door for it! I seem to recall he told me that there are regular coach parties coming to view this layout. I can't remember the chap's name but I think he was a member of the Shepton Mallet MBC.
DM
20 December 2017 at 16:32 #74581
Colin Bishop
Moderator
@colinbishop34627
QE at Portsmouth today 20/12/17. Looks huge compared with the smaller carriers that used to berth there.

Lot of media hype recently about the notorious leak but do the maths and it is roughly the same as leaving a bathroom tap running!

Colin

Edited By Colin Bishop on 20/12/2017 16:33:09
20 December 2017 at 16:49 #74585
ashley needham
Participant
@ashleyneedham69188
For something as complicated as a vessel this big it obvious that there will be issues to be fixed. They just like to big-up any sort of issues for sensationalism.

I could never understand how steam locomotives could run as reliably as they do considering the huge amount of piping and large moving bits of metal involved, not to mention all that heat

Ashley
21 December 2017 at 12:43 #74614
Paul T
Participant
@pault84577
Due to government cuts the quality and quantity of close in defensive armaments have been drastically reduced.
11 January 2018 at 09:11 #74932
Tim Cooper
Participant
@timcooper90034
Not sure if it's true but I read that our latest (or is it only) Aircraft Carrier can have 30+ planes but will only have 12 because of budget constraints!

Tim

Edited By Colin Bishop on 11/01/2018 10:25:30
11 January 2018 at 11:06 #74933
Colin Bishop
Moderator
@colinbishop34627
Tim, Queen Elizabeth is one of two, the other is Prince of Wales which is still completeing. The design accommodates about 36 F35B strike aircraft plus some helicopters but the UK can't afford to buy them all at once so yes, there are only likely to be a dozen or so aboard initially.

The ships could have been built for far less than the cost currently being quoted if it were not for the constant political indescisiveness and deliberately extended construction period.

I suspect they will actually turn out to be effective designs, they displace around three time the tonnage of the old Invincible cllass but need ony the same crew level. They are also big enough to be upgraded and improved which should give them a long service life. Until the Type 45 destroyers were built the RN had been plagued with designs which were 'just big enough' and incapable of major upgrades which meant that they either became obsolescent too soon or were disposed of after a relatively short period.

Unfortunately the Government are now reverting to form, having learnt nothing, and descided they can't afford a full complement of Type 26 frigates so are replacing them with the proposed Type 31 which will be designed down to a price rather than to a specification and with an eye to foreign sales. Quite why they believe that second class ships will attract large foreign orders is beyond my understanding. We shall probably just end up with oversized and overpriced ocean patrol vessels which are too big for the lesser role and too small to deputise for first line ships.

Hopeless!

Colin
11 January 2018 at 16:39 #74938
Tim Cooper
Participant
@timcooper90034
Thanks Colin

……and I expect they will be over budget by the time they are built.

Tim
11 January 2018 at 18:51 #74949
Paul T
Participant
@pault84577
Food for thought

With all of the scientific and engineering skills that we have in this country why aren't we building our own aircraft for these new carriers.

It is shameful to be buying very expensive 'off the shelf' American products when we could be investing in British industry.

Paul

Proud to be British
11 January 2018 at 19:05 #74950
Colin Bishop
Moderator
@colinbishop34627
They are not 'off the shelf' Paul. Somehow the UK has got inveigled into financially supporting the development of this aircraft which is supposed to be an all singing and dancing strike aircraft which will probably mean that it will do nothing properly. One of the problems with the short take off and landing version is that it can't land vertically with its weapon load still aboard and this is very expensive with multi thousand pound missiles if it has to jettison them first. The fatal flaw with leading edge technology is that it hits every problem going at huge expense.

I don't think th UK still has the capacity to develop carrier aircraft of its own but it has been suggested that there is a much cheaper French alternative which might have been a better bargain in the short to medium term.

Apparently the production line for the existing US carrier aircraft has now been shut down in favour of the F35 otherwise that would have been a better interim solution.

Colin
12 January 2018 at 09:37 #74956
ashley needham
Participant
@ashleyneedham69188
The UK has significant financial investment in the f35 and manufactures/supplies parts and equipment for it. This does/will (hopefully) provide significant income through the life of the aircraft (possibly).

Typhoon could easily have been developed in a carrier version in its design stage, but no politician can see that far ahead (only up the next election). Defence procurement is scandalous, always has been, always will be. Politicians always seem to see collaboration (F35) as an easy way of spreading costs when all it does is escalate them

Ashley
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