Fairey Fisherman 27 Motor Sailer

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Fairey Fisherman 27 Motor Sailer

This topic has 123 replies, 7 voices, and was last updated 4 weeks, 1 day ago by Richard Simpson.

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18 October 2024 at 17:51 #122880
Chris Fellows
Participant
@chrisfellows72943
Bloomin’ heck, I can’t believe I first posted about this over 6 years ago! For anyone interested the pre-build is under Beginners/New Project.

As mentioned elsewhere I haven’t done anything to do with model boats since before Christmas, due in the main to working on one of my son’s flat. Apart from bits and pieces it’s pretty much finished now and he’s moved in. So in readiness for starting again I’ve had a tidy up and rearrangement of the small bedroom/workroom to give me more space.

I left the drawings all those years ago at the point I was deciding on how to deal with the keel i.e. bolted on or a daggerboard type. Having decided on the latter and utilizing DragonForce 65 parts I ordered a short keel and bulb and mounting parts a couple of days ago and they arrived today.

I can now include these as part of the design drawings. Also, at the time I thought it was a good idea to have the frames at the bow and stern at an angle so that they were at right-angles to the stringers. Now not such a good idea, not having a milling machine, so I will revert to traditional frames which will make construction easier. So I will have to do some more drawing before I can start building.

Chris
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18 October 2024 at 20:23 #122881
Chris Fellows
Participant
@chrisfellows72943
Meant to add as well that I need to think about controls. As it’s a motor sailer I want to add both. I have a multi-channel Tx so it shouldn’t be too difficult to control the motor, rudder and sails? I’m thinking though that it might keep things simpler by not using a servo for the sails and have them adjustable manually or fixed at the mid-point? performance from the sails only needs to be adequate as it’s not a full on yacht.

Any thoughts would be appreciated.

Chris
19 October 2024 at 09:20 #122883
Tim Rowe
Participant
@timrowe83142
Hi Chris

Having your sails fixed will be a bit like a stopped clock. IE accurate twice a day (port and starboard tack)!

You may even find that having the sails pinned only half way in could affect the ability to steer and flapping sails uugh!!

Adding a winch for the sails (one winch can do the main and the jib) should be quite straightforward. Incidentally I would use a winch rather than a lever arm servo. They take up less room, are easier to set up, have more or less constant torque and are less inclined to tangle. I have a lever arm on Galileo because it was the only thing I could get at the time. The lever pokes up though a clear plastic sheet to keep the sheets away from the gubbins but I still worry about a snarl up. It struggles too in windier conditions. Downside, winches are more expensive.

Following with interest. Will be good to see a round bilge boat being built. The Fisherman is very curvy.

Tim
19 October 2024 at 10:00 #122886
Chris Fellows
Participant
@chrisfellows72943
Thanks Tim. Original thought was to use a winch and your comments have made the decision that is the right way to go. My Dragonforce yacht uses elastic to keep tension in the sheets so I assume that is the way to go?

Yes, the hull is a bit curvy due to its lifeboat heritage.

I’ve started altering the drawings for the traditional frames but I’m wondering now if I could make the angled frames work or is that a crazy idea! Will have another look later and give it some more thought.

Chris
20 October 2024 at 07:31 #122898
Ray Wood 3
Participant
@raywood3
Hello Chris,

Tim and I have been in touch about using stock DF keels for future yacht designs as many folk won’t want to mess around with patterns, moulds and molten lead pouring, fun as it is 🙂

This is a keel box from ply for a 30″ Thames barge but this idea could be built into your keel quite easily , this will be braced with a couple of bulkheads, and you can whip the keel out if needed, both Wild Duck and Eventide are removable, but I have never taken them off the boat once complete 🙂

Food for thought ??

Regards Ray
20 October 2024 at 09:51 #122902
Richard Simpson
Participant
@richardsimpson88330
Just chewing the fat a bit Chris, most of the models I have come across (second hand knowledge, always dodgy!) seem to have been set up as primarily a sailing model with a motor simply as a get out of trouble device. You seem to be thinking of yours the other way round. As Tim has said not having control of your sails has the potential to work against you and even possibly to the extent that the motor might struggle to keep things corrected.

You haven’t said what channels you have available on the radio but I can understand your concerns as regards avoiding mixing throttle or sail control with rudder on one stick. I would tend to prioritise the sail control as they are so much trickier to control than a motor so I would start with sail control up and down on the left stick and rudder left and right on the right stick. You are then left with motor control. How about the thinking that all propulsion control is on the left stick and steering is then isolated on the right?

So the left stick could either be sail control up and down and motor control left to right or what about motor control up and down, self centred, and sail winch control left to right?

Just thoughts.
20 October 2024 at 20:02 #122921
Chris Fellows
Participant
@chrisfellows72943
That’s a relief, came on the forum this morning and my thread had disappeared!

Thanks for that Ray, interesting. I’d been giving the keel box some thought earlier as regards forming it. First idea was to try and use the DF mounting pieces after modifying them but maybe not at all now. Mine’s a bit more complicated because it’s got a quite narrow keel on the hull which the drop keel needs to come through. But a plan is starting to form which will probably involve some trial and error.

Chewing the fat is good Richard! You are right to some extent as mine being the other way round. I say that because it depends on which rig is fitted. You had a choice of the bigger sails I’m going to use (but not that big) or smaller ones which were only adequate to help the engine or get you home in an emergency – they look a bit silly really. With the bigger sails it could indeed overpower the steering when using the motor which is why I’m following Tim’s advice to use a winch. I know some folks leave the motor out of their builds (I think Eventide is an example of that) but as I’m building pretty much a scale model I want to include both. Obviously the rudder needs to be bigger for sailing or I’ll use an extension piece. I may have another rig with the sails furled but I doubt I will be sailing this model that much and it will only be in light winds.

I like your last suggestion of using the left-stick for throttle and sails with the latter being left/right as that would better aligned with my other powered craft where I don’t want to think about which way the throttle operates. At odds with my yachts but that isn’t a problem!

I’ve decided to stick with my angled frames!

Chris
21 October 2024 at 10:53 #122929
Chris Fellows
Participant
@chrisfellows72943
Won’t be doing anymore for a day or so as I’m collecting another model to add to the Fairey fleet! Some of you can probably guess what it is!

Chris
21 October 2024 at 12:23 #122930
Colin Bishop
Moderator
@colinbishop34627
Give my regards to Liz!

Colin
21 October 2024 at 16:46 #122935
Ray Wood 3
Participant
@raywood3
Hi Chris,

That’s good news, I still miss the old bugger !! We had the same sense of humour.

Any chance of a photo of the Fisherman , I know you posted a drawing about a hundred years ago 🙂

Regards Ray
21 October 2024 at 22:36 #122940
Chris Fellows
Participant
@chrisfellows72943
Will do Colin.

The prototypes will be reunited!

I’ll post some when I get back Ray. I think there are some in the pre-build thread though. I would have liked to post the photo showing the two sail layouts but they are in a current book and subject to copyright.

Chris
22 October 2024 at 08:14 #122941
Ray Wood 3
Participant
@raywood3
Hi Chris,

I personally wouldn’t worry about copyright as your not making a real boat, only a small replica. otherwise non of us could build anything 🙂

Regards Ray
22 October 2024 at 15:28 #122942
Chris Fellows
Participant
@chrisfellows72943
I know Ray but it’s copyright of the photos not the design of the boat and I have a good relationship with the author who is also the curator of the original Fairey Marine drawings etc. Some of my build photos have appeared in Google searches obviously being farmed by search engines etc. from forums so I don’t want that happening without his permission.

Chris
22 October 2024 at 15:46 #122943
Colin Bishop
Moderator
@colinbishop34627
Chris is right, any images you post on here could appear on a Google search, several of mine have.

Colin
22 October 2024 at 19:54 #122944
Richard Simpson
Participant
@richardsimpson88330
That’s a very smart looking pair
22 October 2024 at 21:24 #122945
Chris Fellows
Participant
@chrisfellows72943
Certainly are!
23 October 2024 at 20:40 #122955
Chris Fellows
Participant
@chrisfellows72943
Yabadabadoo!

The attention to detail that Dave went to with this model is superb and just reinforces what we knew about his model building prowess. The carry box is very nicely built as well and weighs more than the model!

Chris
23 October 2024 at 21:25 #122957
Colin Bishop
Moderator
@colinbishop34627
Chris.

I didn’t think you would be disappointed. I have seen the model in action.Dave put extra effort into detailing it. Glad it has gone to a good home.

When you get it going again post some pics.

Colin
23 October 2024 at 22:07 #122958
Chris Fellows
Participant
@chrisfellows72943
Thanks Colin, I passed your regards on.

Yes, the other one is good but this one’s even better, the seats even hinge!

Chris
31 October 2024 at 23:01 #123119
Chris Fellows
Participant
@chrisfellows72943
Still not being able to spend much time on the boats but this evening I decided to have a look at the keel box. Having decided that as I’ve bought them I’d see what I can do with the DF parts.

So drastic action was taken with the hacksaw, Stanley knife and file! Plan is to glue the upper and lower dagger box parts together to make a watertight whole. The bottom will be epoxied in place flush with the bottom of the hull keel and a fabrication made to which the DF top mounting part can be fixed to. I shall leave it in place but I won’t be using the recess for the mast as in the Fisherman the mast is further forward.

I shall now see how this fits in the design of the model. If Ok I can then modify the drawings ready for printing and cutting wood before too long!

Chris
1 November 2024 at 09:09 #123121
Ray Wood 3
Participant
@raywood3
Hi Chris,

This looks like clever stuff ! watching with interest 🙂

Regards Ray
1 November 2024 at 10:30 #123122
Richard Simpson
Participant
@richardsimpson88330
Very neat, looks like it was made for the job!
1 November 2024 at 15:55 #123134
Chris Fellows
Participant
@chrisfellows72943
Thanks chaps. Hoping I can get a watertight join between the two pieces of plastic otherwise I will have to build an outer box similar to Ray’s example as a second line of defence.

Chris
1 November 2024 at 16:34 #123135
Colin Bishop
Moderator
@colinbishop34627
Is it possible or worth fitting some sort of internal reinforcement to bridge the joint on the inside? Maybe a profiled strip of balsa to fill the hollow interior and effectively make it solid. I can’t see from the photo if the other end is hollow.

Colin
1 November 2024 at 18:09 #123137
Chris Fellows
Participant
@chrisfellows72943
Hi Colin

Sorry if I’m misunderstanding, but the plastic parts effectively form a tube from the underside of the hull keel to the top of the daggerboard where you bolt down into the top of the keel, so you can’t have anything inside the tube as the keel is in there. The top of the keel is therefore restrained as is the part passing through the hull keel and so the plastic tube is mainly to stop water ingress and to line the inside of where the drop keel passes through the hull keel.

However I’ve been doing some drawing and have started off with a keel box to support the top of the daggerboard but I’m now thinking to just position the joint in the tube inside the hull keel, wrap the drop keel in clingfilm and epoxy it in like we do with the prop shafts etc. as the idea initially was to avoid having a keel box and it’s an area where water could get trapped if you are not careful. The dagger box that Ray and Tim use in their builds is simple and effective for the design of boats but I have the added complication of a significant protruding keel (ballast keel on the full-size) which I’m using mahogany for and I don’t want any joints in it below the hull, so the drop keel needs to pass through it.

The design is obviously evolving and it’s too easy sometimes to over-complicate things! But I will get there!

Chris
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