Todays Boating

[Ray Wood 3Participant @raywood3]

Hi Ash,

The weed is strong this year !! must be the heat making it grow 🙁 my friends at other clubs in the south east are all having the same problems !!  Our yacht racing course is becoming smaller every day, at Bluewater which is fast turning into Greenwater 🙂

Have a great holiday 🙂

Regards  Ray

[Philip OxleyParticipant @inonowt]

Hi all.

Had a great day boating yesterday. Had all boats out and ‘Altair’ (MTB379) had its 1st outing. Lots of admiring looks and positive comments. It went really well and it’s is so quiet. It a bit low in the rear but other than that, no issues. Maybe a bit too much rudder. Moreover, what I was most pleased with was, ‘This is it’ finally (thanks mostly to Chris Fellows help and advice last year) got up onto a plane and behaved as I’d wanted to. Also on its 1st outing was a wheeled trolley, making it easier to transport boats to and from the car. No mishaps and no breakages, so all in all, a great day.

Best wishes

Philip

Philip

[ashley needhamParticipant @ashleyneedham69188]

Well done Phillip.  Good snaps…perhaps move the battery forward a bit?? Sometimes planing boats have to be a bit down at the bow yo sit properly at speed.

No boating now for 3? 4? Weeks due to hols and weed. By all accounts the weed is down a bit but now the pond is very scummy…

Tricky project..not much movement, but the next project after tjis tax been identified, a follow-on if you like from something started 15. Years ago but never got working, namely an SRN1 which was a whopper and made out of vacform parts for which I have the tools for still! It was always ambitious but mainly just far too big and thirsty on the batteries.

The new one will be 2/3 size and only have one motor ( the other had ducted fans in the ducts plus a lift motor).but only AFTER I finish the other one…

Skid boat in next mag…something i struggled to get to work. Unfortunately Lindsey made me to cut the wordage down and so the tale of the puzzling and epic struggle has been neutered but there we are.

Ashley

[Philip OxleyParticipant @inonowt]

Hello Ashley.

Thanks for the reply.  Since the photos, I have rejigged the internals and moved the battery forward and fitted it lengthways along the keel line.  The drawings show it a little forward from where I had it. I noticed this when looking at them as I’m intending to use a modified version of this hull for a motor yacht.

There is another issue I have which I’m not sure contributes to the low back.   When installing the drive lines, after getting a good line I fitted the A frames first but they must have dropped 2 or 3 mm during installation as subsequently I had to pack up under the motors with 1.5mm ply.  The drive lines are good but are a little steeper than I’d intended. I get the feeling this has increased the plane angle.

I bought some led lighting which I’ve retro fitted into the bow behind the portholes.  More for the challenge than anything else.

Not having CAD I’m using pencil and paper to draw the motor yacht.  It’s going to be a MCY70 or 76 hopefully but I’m still trying to figure it all in my head.  I have some pictures which will enable me to achieve some sense of scale, and being 70 or 76′ long this hull (modified) lends itself quite nicely.  Anyway, we’ll see.

Best wishes

Philip

[Chris FellowsParticipant @chrisfellows72943]

Glad to have been of help Philip and that the models are now performing as you wanted. I don’t think that the prop shaft angle is why the stern runs low. If anything the steeper angle should raise the stern as the hull will pivot at the point the hull is out of the water. How does it sit at rest? If a little bow high you could try some ballast towards the bow.

But looking at the last photo your model doesn’t have a lot of freeboard at the stern and I think it is just dropping into the hole that occurs when a boat is not fully on the plane. It just looks a bit dodgy! I take it that at rest and slow speed it sits higher on the water? Higher speed may raise the stern?

[ashley needhamParticipant @ashleyneedham69188]

One trick is to add a shelf to the stern. This effectively lengthens the boat, moving the centre of gravity and helps in stopping stern sinkage ( inevitable with old sge).

A temporary one affixed with tape will suffice for a quick test.

Ahhh…arguments about prop angles…I could throw in prop lift here…some props generate more lift than others. Might be worth trying a few different props and even reversing the direction…

Took the old SRN1 to Trevors and decided to fix the motor issue and re test it. I spent a considerable effort on this…what with the substantial mdf tools for the vacforming and the myriad half-round styrene rods to replicate the originals ribbing. I layer fitted it with a higher 2200kv lift motor but never fixed the side thruster ducted fan units ( one stopped working last time our on tne pond) to retest on water to guage the effect of the extra lift so don’t really know if it will make a lot of difference.

I may still make a smaller 1, powered by a single motor and using bleeding off air to.propel it, but it won’t be a full hoverer..mor?e like an “assisted skimmer” as i fancy finding out how well it would go.

I have built a lot more stuff since the original 1 and would do it a bit  differently second time.e. snaps to follow.

Ashley

[ashley needhamParticipant @ashleyneedham69188]

Cycled to the pond and was staggered to see that its completely clear of weed!!!  Amazing…where’s it all gone?

Ashley

[Colin BishopModerator @colinbishop34627]

Cycled to the pond and was staggered to see that its completely clear of weed!!! Amazing…where’s it all gone?

Washington DC I expect…..

Colin

[Philip OxleyParticipant @inonowt]

Good afternoon all.  Thanks Ashley and Chris for your replies.

Your comments, Chris, prompted me to look at the Barrie Griffin video of the model, and some pictures on the internet.  BGs model is also quite stern down, but the real-life pictures not so much, so I’m thinking it’s just the way the way the model is.  You’re right, there isn’t a huge amount of freeboard at the back and the deck is kind of at water level at full speed.  The brass A frames and brass propellors would add weight and I did use a substantial amount of P38 to fix them in.  Possibly 40-50gms in all.  I’ll note the ‘at rest’ level nest time since I don’t have a bath to do that.

The shelf idea is interesting.  Accepting what you say Ashley, it would also act like trim tabs available in the market, but temporarily taping a piece of ply, or perhaps even wing trailing edge (to give some lift) to overhang by an inch(ish) would be a good test.  And as Chris says, I can add weight at the front too.

Interesting what you say about prop lift.  The props are 3 bladed brass from Howes with the starboard rotating clockwise, and the port anti clockwise.  I can swap them over and change the motor’s directions, which is what I think you’re suggesting.  I tend to agree with Chris, tho I could see and argument for the thrust going to the front of the boat, there by lifting it.  Maybe I’ll try smaller nylon props.

Pleased to hear your pond is weed free Ashley.  Ours, while free of weed, has a fair bit of floating twigs, leaves etc. which foul the props somewhat.

Thanks and best wishes to all.

Philip

[ashley needhamParticipant @ashleyneedham69188]

Philip.

In my experience…

Outwards turning props tend to push water up between them. This can be very helpful for single rudders boats as you get a bit more water flow over the rudders.

Inward turning props tend to.push water down. That’s a bit of a black and white statement I suppose but there is a sideways component to the thrust of a prop besides churning

You also  get effects of turbulence etc at the blade ends which cuts down efficiency. One of the reasons kort nozzles are more efficient for lower speed work is that the turbulence is contained by the ring. Similarly for ducted fans..a close tolerance between blade and fan is a must.

I read a good article years ago and it  said an X two bladed prop was a really good general purpose high speed item and would propel almost anything quite efficiently. Not the best perhaps, but better than most and really cheap. Certainly better than a standard sort of three blade brass one for high speed work.

The lower pitched S types are probably better overall unless you want to go very fast, but the bigger X variety are very good for low speed applications, a bit counter intuitive perhaps.

A shelf is different to a trim tab, as there is a gap between tabs for water to rise up, lowering the lengthening effect.

Ashley

[ashley needhamParticipant @ashleyneedham69188]

Picture of the new 60mm prop Trevor has just bought off Ebay for a tenner for his Flower Corvette which we are tittivating for display at the Royal Egham show at the end of August. It currently has a an X50 prop with a 2.5:1 geared 850 on 12v. This powers the 2m (!) boat very well but doesnt look so good. It’s sooo heavy!

It looks wonderful…but…

It’s not brass, its a cast zinc alloy, and plated a gold colour. Thete is a plain 4.1mm hole and oddly a dog drive.

However…it looks fantastic and will tap out to 5mm.

Ashley 

[Colin BishopModerator @colinbishop34627]

The boat will obviously now turn in a more polished performance….

Colin

[ashley needhamParticipant @ashleyneedham69188]

Ah Colin…..

Bumper boats for Sunday. They have not been out so far due to various combinations of weather and weed. Should be a fun morning.

• Wet’n’dried the bottom of Trevors corvette on Tuesday to get rid of some of the resin runs and so on (boat was built in a hurry originally trying to meet the D-day event deadline)  and repainted it black. Looks so  much better..just 40 mins hard work ( in the sun).
• Ashley

 

[ashley needhamParticipant @ashleyneedham69188]

Prepping the Diamond for the

**** ROYAL EGHAM SHOW*****

Bank hol weekend. The heat has mulleted to bread and butter hull. Huge cracks have appeared below the boot topping scuppering a quick sail next Sunday. I was looking at hairline cracks before and thinking I could live with that, but there are chasms now and the filler I used is coming off in flakes.

I said i might glass the bottom, but its not might now..it definitely needs doing or the boat will be unusable.

Can get other boats in the car after a test-fit this morning, so will be able to fill couple of tables.

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[Roger FugeParticipant @rogerfuge]

That seems to be a nice lot of models for you display  should make a great display

[ashley needham]

On ashley needham Said:

Picture of the new 60mm prop Trevor has just bought off Ebay for a tenner for his Flower Corvette which we are tittivating for display at the Royal Egham show at the end of August. It currently has a an X50 prop with a 2.5:1 geared 850 on 12v. This powers the 2m (!) boat very well but doesnt look so good. It’s sooo heavy!

It looks wonderful…but…

It’s not brass, its a cast zinc alloy, and plated a gold colour. Thete is a plain 4.1mm hole and oddly a dog drive.

However…it looks fantastic and will tap out to 5mm.

Ashley 

What’s the scale of the corvette Ashley?

[ashley needhamParticipant @ashleyneedham69188]

The corvette is approx 1/32 believe it or not, deliberately so in order to be in scale with the landers and my 5 foot Lct.

It’s about 2 metres long and a foot?? Or so wide.  There are about 27 Airfix 1/32 scale Army support group figures on it painted up in blue.

Don’t know if the prop is big enough to scale, but the X50 prop previously fitted certainly provided sufficient oomph on its last outing.

Test loaded the car on Friday and can get the Diamond in with boats as seen in the picture..plus a lander and the Swordfish ( that’s the upscaled “jetex” boat) behind the passenger seat. THEN theres the box of “display gear”..table coverings etc…the Bushy Boaters banners…radio control bag..lunch bag..

Ashley

[ashley needhamParticipant @ashleyneedham69188]

Suddenly realised I am running out of time to charge batteries and check everything.

Have today ( brass band evening) and half of tuesday ( rock n roll class eve).  Dancing up town weds afternoon ( pub..restaurant after)… my dancing group Thursday…(set up hall 1145…lunch 1200..dancing afternoon AND evening…)

THEN meeting the ex-work boys on Friday up in London. How can I fit it all in?? Dislike leaving batteries to charge overnight …will have to charge them at every opportunity when in.

However…the reality is there won’t be much boating on the small indoor pool, certainly not using much power so perhaps I am being over cautious!

Besides the watt meter to check batteries, the other indispensable tool is the AAA/AA hand held batter tester. A cheap item, so useful to find the one battery dragging down the voltage in your transmitter and enabling you to change just a single battery and not replace all of them. All my Nimh AA batts are years old now and when charged are OK for one or two boating sessions, but for some of them, that’s about it.

Diamond hull looks a bit better now the red oxide paint has dried to a matt finish. Need to get some fine glass fibre tape to do the hull as its easier using a nice (say) 50mm width of glass rather than cutting mat up.

Ashley

[ashley needhamParticipant @ashleyneedham69188]

After months of very high temperatures and drought…Saturday at the Egham show was rainy all day stifling visitor numbers.  Thankfully Sunday was nice and visitor numbers were up.

Our stand looked good as usual but we did not win best stand, which went the Pheonix model boat club.

Trevors massive corvette and the Diamond were impressive on the table and were supported by at least 8 hitherto not displayed boats ( i will call them boats but perhaps “craft” is a better description).

The pool saw some noisy hooliganish behaviour with no.less than THREE tups on the water at one time and both hovercraft gave a very maneuverable demonstration.

Trevor and i were alone on Saturday but joined by Richard for Sunday hence the slightly different table layouts.

 

[Colin BishopModerator @colinbishop34627]

That’s a very impressive display Ashley, especially when it is just you and a couple of others. No disgrace to come second to a big long established club like Phoenix who used to put on large displays at the Model Engineer Exhibition for many years and are still exhibiting with a big stand at Midhurst.

Nice to see so many boats of all shapes and sizes which will show the public what model boating is all about.

Colin

[Richard SimpsonModerator @richardsimpson88330]

Superb display Ashley.  Sadly my own club has stopped doing away events such as shows but, in its heyday, used to put on a very impressive presentation.  Good to see that someone is keeping these things going.

[Roger FugeParticipant @rogerfuge]

That’s a really good display Ashley a lot of effort but well rewarded

[ashley needhamParticipant @ashleyneedham69188]

Thanks geezers. First time the two big ‘uns had been displayed.  Other than that the shiny sky blue table cloth really makes the difference especially with the colourful boats on top.

Last Sundays boating was nice. Had the London out after quite a long absence.

New project identified ( after finishing wots on the stocks). Cover boat from a 1932 Popular Mechanics edition. Obv never built, sent off to America for the relevant magazine to see if there’s more info inside..likely not much but usually these articles include a description of operation…how it was supposed to work and giving you a clue about any hidden stuff…props/foils/rudders etc, and hopefully another different illustration.

Ashley 

[ashley needhamParticipant @ashleyneedham69188]

Going to test a frankenboat tomorrow…my Argus 1917 aircraft carrier ( minus the deck)  with 4x air props on it (usual.motor unplugged) to see how it goes. Why you ask?? Good question and it might have something to do with the next frankly outrageous project…that is, after the rower project…or more likely, at the same time.

I have ordered a magazine from America hoping it has more info regarding the project, but if not I will just extrapolate a best guess ( make it up).

Trevor also has a project and in both cases the inspiration is front cover artwork…simply that, an artists impression of something never built AND illustrated by someone with absolutely no technical knowledge of a real boat. Makes it interesting of course.

An article i am working on has been skimmed over by….someone..and they have identified that its too wordy. It IS too wordy of course and needs shortening without missing out the interesting bits. To be honest, I think the interesting bits are the aim, background of whatever it is, design challenges and indeed build challenges and compromises along the way…with an interesting on the water  description. We can all cut and stick bits of wood together, let’s face it. Does anyone need to know too much about how I measured, cut and stuck some styrofoam together???

Ok…the article in question hopefully will be accompanied by a plan..so I suppose there will have to be some boring stuff in there…

.Us warship buffs are being boosted in the paint department by the appearance of a lot of non-metallic  “undercoat grey” cars, which means these colours will be available at Halfords at some time in the future,  giving a wider choice over the only non metallic grey currently available,  Ford Polar grey. However the polar grey is exactly the right shade for current RN navy vessels handily.

Ashley

 

[Colin BishopModerator @colinbishop34627]

Guilty as charged! I think we all tend to write a bit too much initially, including me. Ashley will do a great job as usual on another of his interesting and attractive projects so something to look forward to.

He is also happy to take photos of my Silver Shadow when I can get it up to Bushy. I can take decent photos but have used Ashley’s for the main on the water photos of my recent models as he does a much better job.

Colin

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