TEV Wahine 1/35 Build

[Colin BishopModerator @colinbishop34627]

Simon makes lovely props but his customer communications are sadly lacking. He frequently does not respond to emails and apparently the only means of reliable communication is by phone.

As of ten days ago I heard that he is very much in business and very busy with orders.

Colin

[Colin BishopModerator @colinbishop34627]

Topic tidied up to get back on track.

Colin

[Richard SimpsonModerator @richardsimpson88330]

Richard, not sure if this is of interest to you, it is 1/35th scale:

Link

Edited By Richard Simpson on 05/06/2021 19:26:31

[Richard H DunnParticipant @richardhdunn]

Yeah I have seen that kit around but to be honest, I am not a big kit builder, I always find too many issues with them to justify the huge cost.
But that's just me.
I think the only kit I would ever do would be the Jotika Victory if I ever did one but at the price I could build my own kit set and get all the parts laser cut myself.
that was the reason for my work on Cutty Sark as I mentioned on another post I gave my services and as payment I would be allowed to use scan to build a kit or plans but have not decided which.
I see some kits and as soon as I see bad sterns or incorrect number of strakes of planking I think why would you? and that's that.I cant see past it.

I have considered starting a range of ship kits in the past and buying a small cnc to produce them with unrivalled accuracy but I would have to market them and that is a lot of work, Its something I have considered retiring on. Its a thing I could do as it requires mostly high cad and 3d skills which I have but also it means sourcing or making all the fittings,

Edited By Richard H Dunn on 06/06/2021 00:41:01

Edited By Richard H Dunn on 06/06/2021 00:41:33

[Richard H DunnParticipant @richardhdunn]

These some images I showed Richard privately the other day of the 3d work done on Cutty Sark and the scope of the documentation.

The planking plans done in 3d, even butts are correct and the 2 shades represent the 2 types of wood, Teak and Lower Elm planking

Hard to see whats what here but the square teal coloured blocks are the planking butt plates. scarfs in keel and deadwood parts can be seen forward

Deadwood and planking terminations/rabbet forward with floor plates visible

Edited By Richard H Dunn on 06/06/2021 00:56:32

[Richard H DunnParticipant @richardhdunn]

Nothing flash, just more layers and thruster openings being carved ready

[Richard SimpsonModerator @richardsimpson88330]

I'll say it again this has to be the neatest B&B construction I have ever seen! I didn't realise it was so big as well.

This looks more like something you would see in a modern day shipyard than a modeller's workbench.

[Ray Wood 3Participant @raywood3]

Hi Richard S,

Oh yes this is industrial scale modelling size !! even bigger than the test tank models I would imagine, Richards precision is amazing to watch, I'm glad I don't have that much space in my garage

If you read from the beginning of the thread it's just incredible !!

Regards Ray

Edited By Ray Wood 2 on 10/06/2021 11:20:48

[Colin BishopModerator @colinbishop34627]

This demonstrates the application of computerised techniques to traditionally wasteful B&B construction.

Wood is a wonderful material, you can do so much with it and it is so satisfying to work with.

A work of art!

Colin

Edited By Colin Bishop on 11/06/2021 09:40:24

[Richard H DunnParticipant @richardhdunn]

This whole lower hull only used 28 pieces of clear pine 120mm x 19mm x 1800mm at about $20.00 each with very little waste, I chucked all the off cuts last week and it was only enough to fill a couple of buckets once chopped up.

Edited By Richard H Dunn on 11/06/2021 06:16:08

[Richard SimpsonModerator @richardsimpson88330]

I once worked in a German shipyard where the parts for a ship were laser cut from a huge sheet of steel. The computer worked out the best arrangement of the parts to ensure the minimum of wast.

It was unbelievable how little waste there was when the parts were cut!

Edited By Richard Simpson on 11/06/2021 08:37:24

[Richard H DunnParticipant @richardhdunn]

Yeah I used to do that when making files for the CNC, it's called nesting.

With timber you have grain direction to worry about to, so not as efficient but still good

[Colin BishopModerator @colinbishop34627]

Back in the late 70's Steve Kirby in our club managed to get alll the bread & butter pieces for a hull out of a single plank by employing manual techniques involving paper and pencil and a lot of careful fretsawing!

Colin

[Richard H DunnParticipant @richardhdunn]

Ah the Kirby technique, I have heard of that in a magazine years ago, that's what gave me this idea , this has just taken it a tad further, due to the size

[Richard H DunnParticipant @richardhdunn]

It's funny how Kirby's technique was all the buzz back then and in lots of books and magazines.

Now you google it and nothing.

Actually in saying that I found hardly anything on B&B anywhere that was of much value to a newbie, I found the footage and photos on Grove Pond Yachts of more info than some places.
I hope this will become a lesson in its own right as wood is now so expensive.

I would have used the Kirby technique to this time but I could not get boards wide enough for half breadth with out paying HUGE amounts for it and also the cupping across such a wide board.

The advantage of this way is not only it is cheaper and more robust (provided the timber is dry as Richard pointed out) but that on a hull this size the 19mm thickness at 9-10 layers means the thickness of each is relatively small and therefore not a lot of wood to remove, I reckon I can rough this hull out in a weekend provided my arms hold out.

Its the final rasping, and scraping and sanding with long boards that will take the time.
I am thinking of sanding the tin canning effect into the hull directly…thoughts?

Once I sand I plan to do a series of epoxy coats, an old boatbuilding trick from the days of Epiglass products.
You mix west system and thin it 80% and saturate the hull, then again with 60% and then 40% and then of course un thinned, this has the effect of deep saturation and plasticising the wood, its used on boat bilges and areas likely to get wet, or at least it used to be.

The mark out the full frames and seams via a full zie print of expansion plan and then simply rubbing in soft hollows between any lines be they seams or frames.

Some of you may not know this but I also model ships in 3d for TV and Film models.

I have also been doing a digital model of this ship as well.
here is the same theory applied to a digital model.
Actually posting this here should be a good test of realisim so please comment.

Ignore colours

Ignore black areas, this is not a complete model

 

 

Edited By Richard H Dunn on 11/06/2021 23:12:02

[Richard H DunnParticipant @richardhdunn]

Regarding the comment above from Ray test tank models vary in scale, I wondered fora long time as to the scale used thinking it is a set scale used but once I was working in a Naval Architecture firm years ago I found out that that is not the case, it depends on the type of hull and the facilities being used, most are 1/48-1/32 but sometimes bigger.

That is actually the reason I chose this scale, This ship produces a really beautiful and unique wake and I just will not get it any smaller scale.

Well ok that's not the only reason, I don't think I can work at tiny scales like the late Norman Ough.

You could look at photos of his work and just feel in awe but inadequate.

[Richard SimpsonModerator @richardsimpson88330]

Beautiful 3D modelling Richard, just my sort of bow. Not too much excitement in the stern area but that is a working ship for you!

I do like a bow with a noticeable shear and flare from the days pre bulbous when the elegance seemed to be lost forever! Surprisingly for a ship as utilitarian as a ferry she has a bow very much along the lines of the German WWII Atlantic Bow, which I have always thought one of the most graceful designs ever created. For me the QE2 just about signalled the end of the graceful bow as subsequent to her the bulbous bow became ever more popular.

I once did a dry dock on the QE2 and remember standing in the bottom of the dock, looking up at the bow and wondering at how someone could come up with such beautiful lines!

Interesting your comments on the wake and I would agree with the part scale plays in this. I also think this has a huge impact on the way a model handles and gets you away from the toy like 'bobbing' that you can see with a poorly ballasted small model. Interestingly I converted a 1/72nd Revell U-Boat to RC a few years ago and was very surprised at the manoeuvrability with scale rudders and the realistic wake she created on the water. I think ballasting plays a big part in this as well.

[Colin BishopModerator @colinbishop34627]

I think that bread and butter construction generally fell out of favour decades ago. Steve's system was published in Model Shipwright No 27 (March 1979) . It was very elegant but did require skills that were probably beyond the average modeller and of course the books in those days simply described the basic multi plank system which was very expensive in terms of wood and very wasteful in that most of it ended up as offcuts, shavings and sawdust.

In fact, in more recent years many modellers shy away from the idea of actually building a hull and prefer to buy ready made GRP ones and just build the rest of the model themselves. Those that still build their own favour plank on frame which is very economical in material and what might be described as 'composite construction' which emplyes amix of bread and butter, plank on frame and simple sheet. This is what you are basically doing with Wahine Richard, using the most suitable solution for each part of the model. My 1:150 scale liner Miltiades uses this method although it is only around 40 inches long.

Incidentally Steve is still around although he hs not been model making for many years. I met him at the Haydock show in 2019.

Colin

Edited By Colin Bishop on 12/06/2021 10:15:36

[Bob WilsonParticipant @bobwilson59101]

I normally use bread-and-butter construction, but on small scales, so waste does not matter. I wouldn't have the patience or energy to build a large one!

[Richard H DunnParticipant @richardhdunn]

I think I will go with B&B in future simply because the hulls that have survived the test of time, I mean the really old ones are built in some variation of that technique.
Plank and frame is fun and I love doing it but it is more costly on large scales, you have planking, for me red cedar, glass, resin, etc.

Richard, the reason for the bow on this vessel was the ocean conditions she worked in, between Wellington and Christchurch in new Zealand, a very rough and dangerous bit of sea, not unlike the north sea where you are.
ultimately it was also her demise after entering the harbour at the exact moment to cyclones merged right on top of her and she lost steerage and all visibility in 250km wind and was pooped, broached and rolled and then thrown onto the reef losing one of her props.
She then dragged her anchors up the harbour for about 5 hours before finally succumbing to wind and free surface water on vehicle deck and capsized only a few hundred meters off the beach with a loss of 54 lives.

Edited By Richard H Dunn on 12/06/2021 22:30:08

Edited By Richard H Dunn on 12/06/2021 22:49:56

Edited By Richard H Dunn on 12/06/2021 22:50:23

[Richard H DunnParticipant @richardhdunn]

I am going to post this link to a site from Murray Robertson, he was the Godson of the ships master and a colleague of mine for many years, he sadly past a couple of years ago.

This is well worth a look.

 

https://ndhadeliver.natlib.govt.nz/webarchive/wayback/20160417074849/http:/www.thewahine.co.nz/Time.html

Edited By Colin Bishop on 13/06/2021 14:08:19

[Richard H DunnParticipant @richardhdunn]

Very nice neat work for such a small scale Bob.

I have no trouble with the hull and structures but once I get to the finicky stuff that's where I am going to need to really focus on not losing it.

[Richard H DunnParticipant @richardhdunn]

last plank glued including the forward buildup for the sheer of the knuckle, 67hours to do hull to this point, and started on 23rd may

Edited By Richard H Dunn on 13/06/2021 08:39:16

[Richard H DunnParticipant @richardhdunn]

shaft grooves can be seen

The bulb taking shape

Next step to mark the knuckle line heights and shape a nice fair knuckle line for the hull topsides to sit on which will be made of 6mm marine ply

[Richard SimpsonModerator @richardsimpson88330]

It certainly makes for a very sad story Richard. Very reminiscent of course of the Herald Of Free Enterprise in 1987 just outside Zeebrugge.

That happened while I was at college doing my Chief Engineer's license so it was discussed at length in just about every lecture. As with the Wahine though the saving grace was that she laid on her side in shallow water otherwise there would almost certainly have been no survivors.

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