Creating a model boat plan to sell

[Who BootParticipant @whoboot]

Hi

I've got an idea to create a R/C model boat plan of my own design, and then sell copies of it. My plan would be of a simple design that even beginners would be able to build. I've never created my own plan before, let alone try to sell copies. I have built several boats from other people's design.

I don't run any kind of business related to modelling, thereby I don't have any platform of my own to host, market and sell model boat plans. Neither do I have any digital technical drawing tools to create a plan to industry standard. I'm imagining that I would draw up the design, decide on the measurements, etc. using pencil, and then send it off to some business that can refine the plans with their technology, and print it. And then I arrange with the same business or another one, for them to host it in their plan service, and when a copy is sold, the proceeds are divided between the host and myself (the designer) along agreed percentage lines.

Can anybody advice me on how to go about designing and selling model boat plans please? By the way, I don't mean to go big. It would be a garden shed enterprise. Thank you.

[Who BootParticipant @whoboot]

Model boats plans design selling

[David Marks 2Participant @davidmarks2]

I would suggest that for anyone to consider purchasing a plan to your design, they would need to see some images of the completed model on water. I scratch build model boats using my own plans and in reality you get so far with the design and then commence the build with the remainder of the design evolving as the build continues. Also as you would be competing against the likes of Sarik Hobbies, your design would I think need to be something unique which is not already covered by the proven designs in the Sarik range,

[Colin BishopModerator @colinbishop34627]

You would have to pay for the design to be developed into a working plan and the cost would be likely to wipe out any profit you might make assuming that people would want to buy it in the first place. You don't say what the subject is.

Whilst not wanting to curb your enthusiasm, I rather thiink your suggestion is a non starter as you have described. it. There is very little money to be made from model boat plans even with proven, tested designs.

Colin

[Richard SimpsonModerator @richardsimpson88330]

While a plan might look feasible on paper there is no doubt in my mind that you would have to build the model to A) prove the competed model actually works as expected with the suggested power train etc. and B) Discover any building difficulties that you may have overlooked on paper that may only come to light when you actually try to put the parts together.

If you don't build the model then the resultant plan can only be classified as 'Unproven'

Edited By Richard Simpson on 17/09/2023 23:39:33

[ashley needhamParticipant @ashleyneedham69188]

For the fame and glory, design the plan, build the boat from it, take pictures on the water and then submit it as a magazine free plan.

As Colin says, you are unlikely to either make money or sell many, unfortunately.

I have often thought that l should have offered plans for some of my odd/30’s boats as they are unusual, but I would have had to make the boat first, spend ages trying to get it to work properly, then draw a plan of the finished boat and then make another following the plan precisely to make sure a build from plan works ok…what a faff!

Ashley

[Ray Wood 3Participant @raywood3]

Hi Haydn,

I'm in agreement with all the comments so far, being brutal you need to practice the whole process from deciding on which type of boat, produce a drawing you can build from, build it taking photos at each stage, finish it to a good standard, sail it take more pictures, write the article text, and a description of each photo and see how long that process takes If you then submit it to our editor she may put it in the magazine as a free plan ? The standard fee for a Design & build article is £250 as one off payment as they are free with the magazine ………. So If your keen to work for £1.00 per hour crack on

Good luck with what ever you decide , review the SARIK range of plans to see if you can find any gaps, It's more of an old archive of design's you can purchase and hasn't been added too since 2016 when it was bought from Mytime Media by Traplet who went broke then SARIK.

Regards Ray

Edited By Ray Wood 2 on 18/09/2023 10:30:20

[Who BootParticipant @whoboot]

Thank you everyone who's sent in comments to my query about designing model boat plans. If comments require brutal honesty, then bring them on. I want to hear the plain truth, and this is what I've got. So, yes, thank you for that.

The type of boat I have in mind, and which I will definitely build, is an airboat. I didn't think that there would be much money to be made out of designing model boat plans, and the fewer the plans, the less returns. As I'm only talking about one plan, I did suspect that any profits, if any at all, would be pittance. My motivation to build, however, would comes out of a labour of love because building model boats is one of my chief hobbies. Designing and building will be on a trial and error as per suggested in the comments, and involve adapting the plan after some of the building. And yes, I agree with all the requirement to write text and photograph every stage if planning to publish. As I'm doing it for myself, I don't care how little per hour a one off payment from someone would translate to if they took up my plan. Thank you Ray for explaining how MB magazine work with a contributor who submits a plan. I wonder how Sarik works with someone who offers them a plan? If Sarik accepts it, do they give a one off payment or do they pay a percentage each time a copy is sold? An alternative way to sell is of course through ebay. But I would only sell there if my plan was to the same high standard as expected by MB and Sarik. If the costs to bring a plan up to standard are too high, then I will forget about it. But more importantly, I will still have designed my own airboat, and hopefully go on to design other models too.

[Colin BishopModerator @colinbishop34627]

Airboats have been quite popular subjects over the years and there are already a lot of designs out there and magazine articles too. There was one published in August so I doubt if the magazine will want to run another one very soon.

If you love building model boats then whay not just build one for your own satisfaction without all the complications of trying to sell the design to someone. They all look pretty similar although some are more successful than others.

As Ray says, Sarik no longer buy plans from Model Boats magazine, just selling those they already have.

Colin

[Colin BishopModerator @colinbishop34627]

Haydn,

I see from looking at your posts that you were quite active on the forum around 10 years ago. Did any of those projects get completed?

Colin

[Who BootParticipant @whoboot]

Hi Colin

You're right, I was quite active about 10 years ago (for a short time) before family responsibilities took over. Now I'm in a position to engage more in hobbies than I've done for years.

I started a project in 2013 of a model yacht called Goblin in a free plan in MB by Glynn Guest, and it's this you probably saw on this website. There's a photo, if I recall, of the not completed model tested in my bath and other photos of it. After a hiatus of 10 years, I took up the project again this year and finished it in the summer. I renamed the model from Goblin to Ty'n Llyn, in tribute to my late mother's home. The meaning of the Welsh name Ty'n Llyn is house in the lake, which I thought is appropriate for a boat. I wrote about it to MB magazine and the editor kindly asked me if I would write an article about it. So, the article appeared in the August 2023 issue.

During the covid lockdown I built a native American canoe, also hailing from a plan by Glynn Guest in MB. Lots of people pondside have liked this intriguing design, the sight of two model guys paddling.

My next plan is an airboat, and, looking further into the future, building a sister yacht to Ty'n Llyn.

[Chris FellowsParticipant @chrisfellows72943]

I agree wholeheartedly with everything everyone else says. Do it because you want to but there ain't any money in it and you are likely to make a loss.

I've produced the drawings for seven models and currently building five and I wouldn't do it. Like David I tend to draw up enough to get started, albeit it in detail, and then additional drawings and freelance as I go along. The difference in producing drawings for ones own use and for others is great. Every last detail has to be drawn up and as others have said you've got to produce build instructions, build and test.

I have a background in design and drawing – drawing board and PC (not model boats though) and could do all the above but it wouldn't be easy and very time consuming as alluded to and I have no desire to! Paying someone else to do the drawing etc. just isn't viable for this type of thing.

Times have changed as well of course. Many years ago many plans were drawn up and some designers did make some money from them but that has all but disappeared. It's probably only the bootleggers who are making any money from plans and that's only for a limited number of popular designs.

And the emergence of 3D printing, but even there many folks provide the files for free.

If you can't do your own CAD quality drawings it's a non-starter really. As said, do it for your own satisfaction, but as for selling, no.

Chris

[ashley needhamParticipant @ashleyneedham69188]

Chris, agree there. Drawings for own use are one thing, for others, completely different. The Bumper plan has been the only plan I have submitted and I did that because it was about as easy as it gets, and you don’t need to copy lines etc off it. The actual car body half fitted in a page and that’s the only bit you needed.

Ashley

[Bob WilsonParticipant @bobwilson59101]

I draw my own plans, but do not use CAD or anthying like that, and have had no training in such things.   I draw them on large sheets of drawing paper and photgraph them with a normal digital camera.   I then colour the resulting jpegs in with Adobe Photoshop.    I sell them as downloads on  Payhip.   It is free to join, and they only take their commision when anything sells (5%) and send the profit to my Paypal account.

I don’t charge much, but it all adds up and since 2014 when I joined, has now topped the £7,000 mark.

Here is my latest, completed today.  https://payhip.com/b/CcVAy

Barque Glenbank.

Bob

 

 

 

 

 

[Colin BishopModerator @colinbishop34627]

You have done well there Bob. Drawing plans is a dying art is this digital world. My recent articles in Model Boats  on ps Bilsdale and latterly my Greek fishing boat have drawn on existing published plans as I lack the skills to draw up my own.

In the days of yore, there were many people with drafting experience who could design plans for modelmakers but now there are very few and we have to depend on those who originally contributed to the Model Maker Magazine Plans Service which still provides a rich resource via Sarik Hobbies.

But there are very few new plans being added to the model making collections and many of those are of relatively simple subjects.

I am currently persevering with a 1:150 scale model of the liner Miltiades of 1901. The reference sources I have are:

1:1200 scale plans from R Carpenter in Model Boats magazine.

1:1200scale plans published by John Bowen in his Miniature Merchant Ships model book

Umpteen photos I took of the builder’s model in the London Science Museum before they put it into storage

Very many photos of the original builders plans now held by the National Maritime Museum of the ship as originally built and subsequently lengthened from a visit with Ashley Needham in 2019.

Various internet photos of the ship taken during her service life.

And guess what? There are notable discrepancies between most of these sources. In some cases the design has been simplified for modelling purposes but quite significantly. In others the builder’s model does not conform to the NMM plans. The reality is probably that various minor changes were made to the appearance of the ship whilst she was still on the building slip and these are not reflected in the builder’s model

So my model can never be more than a ‘best guess’ based on interpolating the various sources and in the knowledge that a definitive solution is lost forever!

When undertaking a project like this it is really helpful to have full details of the interior layout of the ship as this does help to clarify some of the issues. In this case there are some oddities as the space under beds on the promenade deck is used to provide light and air to the cabins on the deck below. You expect decks to be level but in this case there are instances where they are perforated to give light and air to the one underneath! (see pic)

Anyway, it is all an interesting puzzle  although unlikely to be appreciated by anyone casually viewing the model.

Colin

 

 

[Bob WilsonParticipant @bobwilson59101]

Hi Colin,

I once built Marathon, sister ship to Miliades,  from the John Bowen plans.  

By drawing them large, photographing, and colouring in with th PC, they look a lot better than the large originals when printed small scale, and were a lot easier than I thought.

Bob

[Colin BishopModerator @colinbishop34627]

The John Bowen plans are fine for miniatures but are not accurate for larger models. The promenade deck houses have been massively simplified for example. The Carpenter plan has got the central deck house wrong too.

Colin

[Bob WilsonParticipant @bobwilson59101]

It never ocurred to me that the Bowen plans may have been innacurate, as they looked perfectly in proportion, and I knew that he had the original plans to work from.    Here is a fairly large Carmania that I buit from a Bowen plan, and everything seemed to agree with the many photographs.

Bob

 

[Colin BishopModerator @colinbishop34627]

I think the proportions are generally OK on both the Bowen and Carpenter plans. You can only show a limited amount of detail at 1:1200 scale anyway.

The drawings in the NMM collections of Marathon/Miltiades are a mixture of ‘as built’ and ‘as rebuilt’. When looking at them it is easy to be confused as they are mixed up together. Just out of interest, here are the Carpenter and Bowen plans and my photo of the central promenade deckhouse taken from the original drawings. Both Bowen & Carpenter have omitted the cabins flanking the boiler casings. Also, Carpenter shows shell doors along the main deck which are not present on the Bowen drawing. Simplification for 1:1200 scale models is understandable but it does show the dangers of scaling up without supporting information.

And when there is a discrepancy between the builder’s model and the original plans then either could be correct!

Colin.

[Bob WilsonParticipant @bobwilson59101]

I suppose it is like models, you can have a hudred models of  Cutty Sark and they are all different in some way.    This is especially true of warships where what a battleship looked like in 1920 is often totally different  to what it looked like 20 years later.    I spent 11 years in the St Helena, but at the end, she presented a totally different appearance to when I joined (See below).    I long ago abandoned the “perfect in every detail” approach, and just built to the original plan, maybe changing some parts to agree with photographs.   No one has ever complained, and I am talking about 288 models completed and sold over the years.   

Bob

[Bob WilsonParticipant @bobwilson59101]

And this is the St Helena as completed as Northland Prince in 1963.

[Colin BishopModerator @colinbishop34627]

Warships are even worse, major continual changes. In the end all you can do is to offer a ‘snapshot’ at a specific time and even that cannot be fully relied upon.

Still, unless the ship has experienced major changes, the depiction is probably going to be  95%+ correct and nobody is likely to notice any discrepancy.

Colin

[Richard SimpsonModerator @richardsimpson88330]

I was once very lucky to be in the Blohm + Voss shipyard in mid December while five thrusters were being changed.  Myself and the ship’s doctor decided to go for a walk, myself in particular as I wanted to see the slip where the Bismarck had been built.  Having done that I mentioned to the doctor that I knew there was a 1/10th scale builder’s model somewhere in the site office so suggested we went for a look around.

We went into the old original office building, beautiful ornate red brick building, and had a look at the stunning huge Christmas tree that was in the main atrium on the first landing of the main staircase.  A tall and very distinguished looking chap walked past and I asked him if it was possible to view the builder’s model of the Bismarck.  He asked who we were and, when I told him I was the Chief Engineer and my colleague was the ship’s doctor of the ship currently in the main dock, he said something along the lines of us being suitably important and told us to follow him.  As he keyed in a code to a large carved door I started to get the impression that this chap was someone quite important.  Anyway through the door and along a very long narrow quite dimly lit corridor.  Along this corridor was a glass case on the right hand wall with around three or four shelves in it.  This case was filled with 1/1200th scale models of every ship the yard had ever built in chronological order, starting with the first wooden ships right the way through to the latest vessels.  You could tell the war years by the huge number of U-Boats and of course the Bismarck.

We came to the end of the corridor and emerged into a good sized room.  One entire half of this room was taken up with the most stunning sight I have ever seen, the 1/10th scale builder’s model of the Bismarck.  It was absolutely magnificent, breathtaking in its size and detail and all the beauty of the real ship.

Interestingly though, and the point of the story, was that I noticed many differences in the model to what I knew of the real ship during Operation Rheinubung.  When I asked the gent about this he explained that the design was almost continuously changing during the build.  Obviously not so much as regards structural at that point but certainly things like armament type and positioning, radar etc.  It was a fascinating conversation and ended far too quickly.  He gave us both a yard copy of the original builder’s promotional spec and photograph, which I framed and put above my own model.

So even in such a short operational life there is still a significant degree of uncertainty as regards how she looked on what particular date, especially when it came to paint schemes, which changed a number of times.  I never did find out who the gent was but I’ll always be grateful to him for an amazing experience.

[Colin BishopModerator @colinbishop34627]

A very interesting experience Richard. You are right that with warships in particular, even quite significant design changes are made at the last minute as requirements change.

Whole classes of ships, such as the R Class battleships of the RN ended up with no two ships exactly the same although they were essentially equivalent in all important respects.

Queen Mary 2 has been extensively modified over her career to date, mostly in respect of adding extra cabins to increase her earning capacity.

It’s all a bit of a moving feast for the model maker.

Colin

[Richard SimpsonModerator @richardsimpson88330]

A perfect example would be the QE2, I think she changed visually externally at just about every dry dock she did.  From adding the magradome, to adding the penthouses, to a completely new funnel during the re-engineing, to going pebble grey and back to royal blue and many lifeboat changes over the years.  To make a model you really have to select a year and stick with it.

I actually have a very nice Japanese kit of her, as built, and always wanted to convert it to the diesel engine funnel but then I would have to make all sorts of other modifications as well.  Consequently it has sat on the shelf for around 30 years!

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