Duke of Northumberland

[Paul TParticipant @pault84577]

Dear All

How did the lifeboat Duke of Northumberland actually work?

I know a lot about the history of the boat that it was steam powered and used some kind of jet propulsion but I have no idea about the engineering involved for instance how did the jet work?

I also note that the boat had 2 smoke stacks does this mean that it had two boilers?

I have never been stumped on research before but I just cant find anything relating to the mechanics of this craft.

Paul

 

[Paul TParticipant @pault84577]

How did it work?

[Bob Abell 2Participant @bobabell2]

Hello Paul

 

I was having a look this morning and one of the blogs, it mentioned that the nozzles could rotate and power the craft sideways.

 

There is a thread active now concerning the model and I`ve posted a few pix this morning

 

You`ll find it

 

I`ve been trying to locate the existing craft on the net all morning, but the picture of it lying all forlorn near Widnes ( I think ) doesn`t seem to be on now

 

 

Bob

[Bob Abell 2Participant @bobabell2]

The other thread is in FREESHIP 2.6

 

Bob

[Paul TParticipant @pault84577]

Hi Bob

 

Yes I have read the freeship thread but I am being teachers pet and not mixing up the thread topics.

 

You are an engineer of some standing so how would you have built the jets?

 

Paul

[Bob Abell 2Participant @bobabell2]

Hi Paul

 

Thanks for the compliment!

 

The lifeboat was built in the late 1800`s, so the water pumps would probably be based on the old fire pumps……………..which were piston pumps……………….I`m only guessing really

 

Piston pumps would give a jerky movement, but if it was a double cylinder, it may have been ok………………..the nozzles would be similat to fire hydrants?

 

That should attract some useful comments?

 

Bob

[Paul TParticipant @pault84577]

Bob

 

I agree about the type of pump (no centrifugal then) I wonder if it was a double action pump that worked on the push and pull stroke, maybe there were 2 pumps and possibly 2 engines hence the 2 smoke stacks.

 

Paul

[Bob Abell 2Participant @bobabell2]

I think we`ve cracked it?

 

I hope Les Jones has something to say about this?

 

Bob

[neil hpParticipant @neilhp]

Hi Bob and Paul.

She had a special Thorneycroft twin compound steam engine designed for her, which drove a horizontal turbine( or as my set of blueprints called it) a centrifugal pump.as the rotation became greater, the faster the engine ran, and with gearing it could spin and therefor pump out at a colosal rate, through venturi nozzles that faced fore and aft, being able to rotate on the horizontal plain to give greater or lesser speed. also she had nozzles that (originally designed as fixed) could rotate to give sideways thrust.

i lent the plans to a “pal” who then promptly lost them, sadly.

The steam engine ran at 170 hp.

forgot to add, the centrifugal turbine/pump was self proming and sucked in the water through a duct situated on the keel line of the boat.

Edited By neil howard-pritchard on 23/03/2009 16:46:05

[Bob Abell 2Participant @bobabell2]

Thank you Neil………………What a pity you don`t still have the blueprints!

 

The boat is still in existence somewhere and I remember mentioning it to the curator of the Hoyhead museum, who wasn`t aware of this!

 

There was a photo on the net showing it half buried on a riverbank somewhere and it`s a real shame it`s not saved and preserved for posterity!

 

Bob

[neil hpParticipant @neilhp]

she was built of rivited iron,( not steel) so should hopefully still be somewhere  if left to decompose gracefully and not be scrapped.

I have one slight hope  (as I had the plans 25 years ago) and that is that I might have had them copied for an old RNLI coxs’n friend of mine.[ not the one who lost mine]

I’ll check up with him and see if he has a copy. Other than that sadly lost. neil.

Edited By neil howard-pritchard on 23/03/2009 17:38:14

[ARHParticipant @arh]

Here,s a few pics.

[neil hpParticipant @neilhp]

she really is a beauty. thanks

neil.

[Paul TParticipant @pault84577]

The jets on this super model are fixed which is how she was first designed. I can see how the change was made to moveable jets but I still would like to see a blueprint for the engine and pump.

And why are there two stacks?

 

Thanks to ARH for these photos.

 

Paul

[neil hpParticipant @neilhp]

It’s strange really Paul,

because all six steam lifeboats that were built ( 3 x hydraulic power and 3 x single screw driven) were ALL powered up by a single boiler, yet some had twin stacks and some ( the “Queen” notibly ) had single stacks.

Perhaps the twin stacked boats could draw steam faster through their long funnels faster than the single stacked boats and get upto speed faster.

Mind you all boats were labour intensive, having both a stoker and mechanic on duty virtually 24/7 in case of emergency.

[neil hpParticipant @neilhp]

hi guys……………….just remembered this thread from 8 years ago…………just thoughts i'd let you know I have started my build of her on mayhem. here it is. http://www.modelboatmayhem.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,51021.0.html neil.

[Barry GibsonParticipant @barrygibson15259]

**LINK**

**LINK**

[neil hpParticipant @neilhp]

Work so far on the Duke of Northumberland/City of Glasgow, on the albums pages.

Edited By neil howard-pritchard on 11/11/2017 21:57:12

[Bob Abell 2Participant @bobabell2]

Hello Neil

Nice to see you back in action

Could you please post a few pix on this website please, Mayhem doesn't work on my PC

Les Jones's model of the lifeboat, is on display at Holyhead Marine Museum

Bob

[neil hpParticipant @neilhp]

HI BOB…………never worked out how to post pics within forum posts but have updated the build photos in my gallery pics……

sadly Les Jones was far from helpful on the 3 times I asked him about his propulsion methods within his boat, and in fact he has set a caveat with his donation of the model to the museum before his death, that no one would ever be allowed to photograph the propulsion methods within the model……sadly not my idea of the ethos of helping fellow modellers, I'm afraid. ces't la vie.

but I have worked out my method of propulsion and happy to share with anyone….watch this space, lol.have a look in the photo albums.

neil.

[ashley needhamParticipant @ashleyneedham69188]

Neil. Wow. Things of beauty those pumps. Will they be mixed to assist steering (forwards only presumably) or just as is for both sides?? Ashley

[Bob Abell 2Participant @bobabell2]

Hello Neil

Hope you don`t mind……..I`ve added a few of your pix to the thread

What length is the model?….btw

Bob

[Paul TParticipant @pault84577]

Hi Neil

I had forgotten all about this thread but I remember the research spread out to include James Rumsey in the USA and HMS Waterwitch that was powered by Ruthvens grandly named 'hydraulic reaction engine.

The subject became the basis of secondary propulsion on my Mighty Thor tug.

I did meet up with Les at a model boat show when I was displaying my Trent and we had a long chat about his model and the pumping problems that the original lifeboat must have encountered in rough weather.

I am in awe of your turbine, the high level of detail and engineering excellence that it demonstrates.

All the best

Paul

[Bob Abell 2Participant @bobabell2]

Here's one of Lifeboats

What a sorry sight?

Bob

[neil hpParticipant @neilhp]

CHEERS PAUL…………..yes, the pump is a beautiful little thing……..not of my making though…………not that clued up in engineering finery.

the model, bob is 55 inches long, which equates to the longest of the 3 jet drive boats, the Queen.the model I am building is the middle sized boat, the City of Glasgow at 53' long, so really the model is not scale, but as the plans for these boats vary from one publication to another, no real decisive scale model could ever be built. Even the Duke of Northumberland has no actual builders or scale plans existing and as such, even Les Jone's model of her is at some stages speculative………….in fact all models would have to be said to be "stand off scale", and as beautiful as any produced is, it is still not scale in the true sense of the word. the nearest to true scale, must be the model of the City of Glasgow that is now in the city science and history museum, ….and even that has anomaly as some photos of the boat show her as twin stacked and others with a single funnel………so at 2 inches linger than she should be at 1;12 scale, being 55 inches long I feel my model has some modellers licence………..and as my ol' granpappy would say……….if anyone moans…….if they can do better let them go away and how me.and no objections to you posting photos for me, bob. many thanks. neil…….as you can tell, I'm not a rivet counter in any way……..just building for my personal pleasure.

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