Boat upgrade help!

[Chris BallingerParticipant @chrisballinger24324]

Hi everyone!

I'm looking for some help and advice. I currently have an electric RC boat that has been stored for a long time. I believe that all the electronics got wet previous to it be stored and no longer work. I was after some advice of what to upgrade it all too.

I do not have much of a budget. What would you recommend getting and doing? It's currently got 2 motors with no rudder. I have servos and a few other bits here I can use.

I will be uploading some photos shortly.

Any help is much appreciated!

[Chris BallingerParticipant @chrisballinger24324]

Need help with setting up a electric RC boat.

[Chris BallingerParticipant @chrisballinger24324]

[Dave Cooper 6Participant @davecooper6]

Hi Chris and welcome to the forum,

I think I would start by finding out what works and what doesn't…for example, apply some voltage to each motor in turn and see what happens – start with 6 volts and go up in small steps. (Use dry cells if necessary).

The blue box looks like it may be a speed controller, so, you may have to disconnect this to test the motors properly. It may also have a radio control receiver built in as well. Have a look for any labels or tags which may give further clues…

Does the boat float without any leaks ? – check the plumbing to the water-cooled motors. Steering may be by differential use of the motors (one running faster than the other). If so, it's back to the blue box for further tests. If this checks out you may not need a separate rudder.

Do you have any R/C gear you can use for testing ? There's a lot to be said for contacting /joining a local model boat club. There you will get heaps of advice and may also be able to help you sort the model out.

Come back to us when you have some results !

Cheers,

Dave

[ashley needhamParticipant @ashleyneedham69188]

Hi Chris. As above. HOWEVER, if it just doesn`t want to work you have a decision to make. Generally, both the RX and esc are in the same box, the motors are differentially controlled to effect turning thus no rudder.

There is little likelyhood of repair unless it is something as easy as obvious corrosion or broken wires.

Making it run again would require a RX, and either fitting a servo/rudder and having one ESC to do both motors, or using a V-tail mixer and two ESC to steer via differential motor control.

I would see how much new ones or second-hand ones are before spending out.

#Ashley

[Chris BallingerParticipant @chrisballinger24324]

Thank you both for your response and help it is much appreciated.

I have done a little more testing on the current setup, both motors are working when powered directly. However the electrical box is faulty and don't believe it is work trying to repair. There is a lot of cuttiosion to the PCB and connectors and one of the transistor is damaged.

I would like this as a small project giving me something to do. My plan is to replace the both motors and new speed controllers, fit a servo and rudder system.

What would you recommend brushed or brushless motors? And what size would you suggest?

Thank you once again (:

[ashley needhamParticipant @ashleyneedham69188]

Chris. A pair of 28mm brushless outrunners of 1300Kv can be had on E-bay complete with esc, for very little money. We have used them at the pond to power loads of stuff and they appear to last well, I think only one esc fail over a couple dozen bought. The ‘only’ 30A esc seem to be ok, unlike those advertised as ‘120A’ ones.

A rudder can be fitted easily, does not have to be in line with the props, or a mixer can be used, a W tail mixer or something.  

Ideally you would want to use a Lipo, 3s, to power this, for which a special Lipo charger needs to be purchased. Component shop a good place to start. I see they also do a wider range of brushless motors now.

Ashley

**LINK**

Edited By ashley needham on 25/09/2023 08:39:48

[Chris FellowsParticipant @chrisfellows72943]

Welcome Chris

I note that you say that you don't have much of a budget. Trouble is with projects like this costs can soon escalate.

You could go brushless but to retain water-cooling which is common on this type of model, as being run at prolonged high speeds, then inrunners would be better as the outer casing doesn't turn. Coiled tube could be used but often matched water jackets are at more cost. You can get water-cooled motor mounts for outrunner though, but the existing motors are mounted low which might be a problem. It looks as though it has flexible drives? These will have to be adapted to the new motor shafts or new couplings obtained. If going brushless then an ESC will be needed for each motor and a water-cooled type.

Rudders for this type of craft are usually mounted on the stern. Noahs Ark RC do a range of different types.

As Ashley says, if using LiPo, then for safety, use a smart charger, Overlander batteries is another supplier.

Just trying to be realistic here. As the motors work and they are already mounted it might be better to stick with them, replace the other components and add a rudder?

Chris

[Colin BishopModerator @colinbishop34627]

I tend to agree with Chris F, if the motors are OK and were intended for the boat then stick with them, one thing less to buy! If you change the motors you may well need to change the couplings if the motor shafts are a different diameter.

You do need to establish what voltage they were originally running on and ideally be able to measure the power consumption to help with battery choice and capacity. The water cooling suggests they might be 12v motors.

As Chris F says, costs can easily escalate if you don't think it all through carefully.

It is possible that Ashley's suggestion could work out cheaper depending on component costs. New brushed motor ESCs have got rather expensive.

Check out the Howes Models site for typical new prices for R/C gear. If the servos you already have are old then they may not work very well with the latest radio standards.

**LINK**

Colin

 

Edited By Colin Bishop on 25/09/2023 17:27:27

[ashley needhamParticipant @ashleyneedham69188]

its a tricky one,this.

I think you will have to write down the cost of everything individually, list the various options, and then price up these options according to the prices of the bits.

Remember a brushless motor needs its own esc so two will be needed for two motors. One esc Will do for two brushed motors but you would need a rudder.

Ashley

[Colin BishopModerator @colinbishop34627]

Re batteries, LiPos are the way to go for lightweight power and performance but you need a more sophisticated charger although it will usually charge NiMH cells as well.

Colin

[Chris BallingerParticipant @chrisballinger24324]

Thank you once again for all your advice (:

I will take your advice and work out a list of what is required and pricing of both options. Either to replace both motors or just use the current motors with a esc.

Sorry for all my questions I am new to model boats.

Would you recommend one rudder in the centre or 2 rudders linked together?

Many thanks!

[Chris FellowsParticipant @chrisfellows72943]

If you do decide to replace the motors that will be the biggest challenge, getting ones of a size that will fit and be low enough to align with the existing shafts.

As for the rudder, with a fast boat one is enough and it has a small blade. Usually with this type of boat the rudder is mounted on the rear and so it comes down to practicalities – one in the middle is probably the best bet? Can you post a photo of the rear.

As I said before have a peruse of TFL Hobby rudders on Noahs Ark RC.

Here's a photo of the rudder on one of my boats. It sticks out a long way because it's carrying the prop as well. Yours doesn't need to so the rudder can be closer to the stern.

You could mount a rudder inside but that brings it's own problems; space, mounting, water ingress etc. Also, dependent on the position of the props the rudder might end up in front of them. It will steer but will probably be very twitchy and spin out a lot at higher speeds.

Ask as many questions as you like!

Chris

 

Edited By Chris Fellows on 26/09/2023 11:58:53

[Chris FellowsParticipant @chrisfellows72943]

And another of my boats where the prop shaft isn't supported by the rudder. It still sticks out quite a long way because of the prop position. There are rudders with shorter brackets where props are further forward like yours.

[Chris BallingerParticipant @chrisballinger24324]

Thank you for your response and advice and providing some very useful photos!

From everybody's advice so far I have decided to keep the original motors and just fit a new speed controller to run both motors. I will then fit a servo to control a rudder or 2.

Hopefully the photos attachment works of the rear of the boat. From that would you recommend one or 2 rudders?

Thank you all so much once again

[ashley needhamParticipant @ashleyneedham69188]

Sort of, if you go for two rudders, they really need to be behind the props and that may be an issue unless you go for extensions to put the rudders on.

This is not tricky, as a bit of brass tube to hold the rudder shaft soldered to a brass strip does for the extension, and the tillers can be on top, and using aircraft style snakes offers not only a waterproof entry point into the hull, but enables one servo to be conveniently mounted forward as the snakes are very flexible..

Having both tillers pointing onwards allows the use of a single ”double” arm on the servo to operate both rudders.

A single central rudder will work of course but not very well at low speeds….but that’s hardly an issue!

Ashley

[Dave Cooper 6Participant @davecooper6]

Hi Chris,

Just a further thought : Winter is usually my "electronics hobby" time. Before you scrap the 'Blue Box' controller, it may be worth having a look inside to see if it's salvageable….

Assumptions here are that the PCB isn't totally wrecked, the radio bit (if fitted) is 27 MHz, and it just needs a service perhaps with some new transistors, capacitors, resistors etc.

It would be worth upgrading the receiver to 2.4 GHz (what most modellers use these days)….

Costs : Postage, replacement electronic bits plus radio gear. If you would like to send it to me, I could give you an assessment before spending any money. Just PM me first.

Cheers,

Dave

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