Herbert Woods – Delight

[Paul Ebdy 2Participant @paulebdy2]

Hi All.

Hull planking complete and fwd varnished topsides in place on the Hull. Rudder shaft pilot hole drilled, coat of sealer on Hull today, and tomorrow hoping to gently break her free from the building board, into her stand and get moving with the decks etc. Been ultra hectic at work last week so sadly not much on Ring, but should catch up next week I hope.

[Ray Wood 3Participant @raywood3]

Hi All,

Never under estimate the value of a tin of Lidl Baked Beans in the drafting process

The rear bulkheads were easy, but the forward ones may be rather more seat of the pants/ trial and error !.

Always happy to share my other interests, my daughter and granddaughter and I were at Duxford Cambridgeshire for the summer airshow, blisteringly hot on Sunday, one of my favourites the P51 Mustang – Miss Helen, good old Merlin power

My daughter Helen asked me If I'd buy her the back seat 30 minute ride only £ 2250.00 I said yes straight away !!!

Regards Ray

[Ray Wood 3Participant @raywood3]

Hi All,

Well the starters pistol has sounded ! off we go with this one, the challenge is to build her from the scrap box and wots in stock

First bulkhead cut 12 more to go …….

Regards Ray

[Paul Ebdy 2Participant @paulebdy2]

Great Ray.

Here little old Ring of Light decks and Rubbing Strakes are now on, by the weekend I shall be moving forward to her cabin constructions. Getting there, inbetween work. Hey ho.

[Ray Wood 3Participant @raywood3]

Hi Paul,

Work !! If and when you are able to get the chance to retire do so

Would you have a drawing of of a typical Broads yacht ? something like a Hunters hire boat ? or Japonica ? I have just been given a mahogany table top which will do the planking nicely, once ripped up.

Could you put some pictures of Ring of Light ?

Regards Ray

[Chris FellowsParticipant @chrisfellows72943]

Like this one Ray?

[Chris FellowsParticipant @chrisfellows72943]

https://www.edp24.co.uk/lifestyle/20625730.norfolk-woman-bringing-boats-back-life/

Came across this recently. No doubt you chaps know about her.

Chris

[Paul Ebdy 2Participant @paulebdy2]

Yes, Abbey, a great boat builder indeed. Shows many how it's done. Superb workmanship. She came to the Broads from her London Apprenticeship. Good on her.

[Paul Ebdy 2Participant @paulebdy2]

Hi Ray, indeed I have lines plans of a great deal of Broads Yachts, including the Hunters fleet. Only binding snag follows the legality I agreed and wrote into agreements with the Owners and designers in copyright, that the drawings passed to me cannot be passed on, as we're in a binding with our venture "Broadland Classics", model making purposes only, and never to be passed on, us paying Royalties on each kit we produced, and that no part of our detailed kits were to include any part of the lines plans, or GA Drawings. That's why it was such a bind to my wife and I, pushing out highly accurate kits without any such original drawings. A great deal of extra work, but we managed it. All That said Ray, let me check out the countless drawings I have, as there may be something I redrafted that may be ok to pass over… May I ask what is the intended purpose of the Broads Yacht drawings please…. That would help my end… BTW, I am planning an article for MB next year on a broads yacht.. Its an interesting subject on plans permissions, wshich follows the forthcoming Ring Of Light MB Article, where in the article, I briefly talk of the plans available to Bernard Reeve back in the 50s for model makers, permissioned by Herbert Woods himself, though parts of the plans were heavily guarded and not passed on at the time, subsequently failed to actually produce an accurate model, but, have now been redrawn by me, where thankfully, that permission has been granted, following approval work with HWs Eldest Daughter….. On the photos of my progress on Ring Of Light, just let me check this route also with MB Editor first, as I am unsure of the protocol in showing pics prior to thve article release you'll understand Ray. I don't want the article revoked as result of pre release photos. Not being a jobsworth, but hope that makes sense. Huge Thanks. I shall go through my drawings of the yachts for you Ray and let you know OK. Huge thanks again.

[Paul Ebdy 2Participant @paulebdy2]

Ray I should correct the above, in saying 'the bind in Broadland Classics pushing out kits, without including drawings, I meant to say, naturally our kits were all produced from original drawings, but was the case we were not allowed to include the drawings within the kits… If that makes sense.. Its all down to the designers and owners in fierce competition against each other on the real things.. Our royalties payments are not cheap everytime I knock out a commission or kit. It is what it is I suppose. Cheers Ray.

[Colin BishopModerator @colinbishop34627]

It's a bit difficult to understand why the boat manufacturers are so secretive. Just looking at the boats and studying the layouts provided for prospective cutomers/hirers gives a pretty good impression of the designs. Probably enough to replicate them in model form.

Hull lines are very straightforward and unlikely to differ much from competitor's boats. It's not as if they are seeking to gain hydrodynamic advantages given the speed limits on the Broads! Any half competent designer should be able to come up with a set of hull lines which are virtually identical to existing boats.

Engines will be off the shelf units.

Within the hulls, the fit out will differ according to the degree of 'luxury' desired.

Colin

Edited By Colin Bishop on 13/07/2023 20:25:05

[Chris FellowsParticipant @chrisfellows72943]

Yes, especially as we aren't talking about current designs are we! Fairey Marine produced hull lines for model boats whilst they were building the full-sized boats, at a time when secrecy could be more important but again the designs were still pretty simple and could be easily drawn up from looking at a hull out of the water.

It is nice referring to original drawings though, which is what I did for my Fairey builds. None for the River Cruiser though, which is why I had to work up drawings using a small black and white photo from a book. Also the Faun river/lake cruiser where I only had the plan and side view from a brochure. All part of the fun though and adds to the satisfaction.

Chris

Edited By Chris Fellows on 13/07/2023 21:38:43

[Ray Wood 3Participant @raywood3]

Hi Paul,

Most of my model boat designs published have been build threads on this forum with photo's, so no secrecy is required, the number on this forum are very few compared with the circulation of the magazine.

Some people like Ashley work under the cover of darkness with their models being described but no photos which keeps us all guessing

I can't see why the owners of the fullsize boats would have issues with us producing what is after all a toy boat !

I understand royalties on a design have to be paid to the designer of a fullsize boat for him to make a living nobody is going to make much money from model boats these days the interest is just not there anymore

I'm quite capable of producing working drawings for any model boat from photos as I am with Delight so I will press on, I suppose your kits were a commercial venture so money was involved to some degree.

Regards Ray

[Colin BishopModerator @colinbishop34627]

the number on this forum are very few compared with the circulation of the magazine.

Ray, It seems that a lot of modellers are either magazine readers or active forum members. A relative minority are both. Given that the majority of model boaters are now of a certain age, they tend to prefer printed matter rather than engagement online. We do get a good number of views on the forum though.Within an hour or two of putting up the info on the next issue there are up to 20 views.

Like you, I have been writing for the magazine for decades but very rarely get any feedback on the articles from the public at large. Just a few people on here usually.

Just the way it is.

Colin

[Chris EParticipant @chrise]

Posted by Ray Wood 2 on 14/07/2023 09:42:03:

………………………………I can't see why the owners of the fullsize boats would have issues with us producing what is after all a toy boat !………………………

Regards Ray

You are probably right but the intellectual property copyright of the design rests with the designer and they have sold the right to mould the hulls from that design. The hull manufacturer is unlikely to have permission to pass the hull design details to anybody (& everybody) else. Once the design is passed on it can be built at any size.

The daft thing is that if you come to the Broads in the winter there are many cruisers laid around out of the water where measurements can easily be taken.

[Chris FellowsParticipant @chrisfellows72943]

I'm no copyright expert and it's all a bit arbitrary anyway but producing drawings for a model boat shouldn't infringe on the rights of the designer of the full-size boats.

When I was working as a building surveyor I read an article in Building magazine about a developer who was taken to court over a house design which it was obvious he had copied from another developer. But he changed one aspect of the design and got away from it.

And when producing drawings for extensions on more than one occasion I had my designs blatantly copied by neighbours. Trouble is in building virtually nothing is unique and its not worth taking someone to court.

In Paul's case he decided to do the right thing and obviously it's a great help if you do have drawings to work from and having entered into an agreement feels quite rightly there is a moral responsibility as well. Unlike some plans suppliers we know of.

Chris

[Ray Wood 3Participant @raywood3]

Hi Paul,

I think you may have made a rod for your own back by approaching commercial companies for their boat designs, and the magazine publishes lots of photos of boats and ships without permission, keep it simple and make your models generic, which is what I shall do and use a fictional name

Back to project Delight , more bulkheads traced on to card as a template and cut round the shape only changes slightly as the run to the stern, the bow shapes will be more of adventure I have drafted them so we will see how it goes.

Chris F, hope your keeping well yes your photo of the broads sailing cruiser is what I had in mind thinking of a week in September on the water again so I may measure one

Regards Ray

[Ray Wood 3Participant @raywood3]

Hi All,

Well now the school holidays and the weather has gone to pot, I thought I'd update on the Delight build, so here we have a dry run of erecting the frames and keel on the building board which is a sheet of chipboard left over from flooring the loft, still zero spend so far

Regards Ray

[Paul Ebdy 2Participant @paulebdy2]

Coming along nicely Ray.. Three cheers to that.

[Chris FellowsParticipant @chrisfellows72943]

You're making good progress Ray.

Yes, the spell, and looking to continue, of inclement weather means I've been doing a bit more on my builds, mainly painting.

Chris

[Colin BishopModerator @colinbishop34627]

Your frames and keel look quite delicate Ray. What will you use for planking and which adhesive will you use? It doesn't look like there will be much gluing area from plank to frame.

I am building a plank on frame Greek fishing boat at the moment using enlarged patterns from the the drawings in the smaller Navarino Models kit I reviewed back in 2021. Some of the drawing items are not quite right so I have had to bodge things a bit and also make provision for a prop tube that wasn't on the original. The boat is only 20 inches long and I have rather gone for the 'chunky' approach to keep the shape. However the planking should hide all the crude bits underneath hopefully!

Colin

 

Edited By Colin Bishop on 25/07/2023 17:39:33

[Ray Wood 3Participant @raywood3]

Hi Colin,

Once the whole thing is glued down to the board it will be quite sturdy I hope it bigger than it looks in the photo she's 12" on the beam, which also made me realise I hadn't put any notches in the bulkheads for the 1/8" X 1/4" obeche gunwhales, now done

I have a vast stock of 3/16" balsa sheets for the planking, but it's almost a barge at the stern I may only need to plank the turn of the bilge.

I'm not to worried about the gluing surface as the bulkheads are 1/8" and the glue between the planks I think will give the hull it's strength, It's going to be glass clothed on the outside & polyester resin inside, my normal glue is the Gorilla white woodworking glue, but while I was at Axminister tools the other day I spotted this Ever Build 502 fast set 10 minutes so I will see how that performs

In the background my new toy built for me by Weston UK a 3.5cc ED Super Hunter Diesel for a Crash Tender up the loft !!

Regards Ray

[James Hill 5Participant @jameshill5]

Hi Ray,

That`s going to be a nice looking boat. Well up to your usual standards

Jim.

[Colin BishopModerator @colinbishop34627]

I'm planking my much smaller model in Bass wood from SLEC. A bit harder than balsa but sands really well. I may cover the hull in glass cloth depending on how things go, These boats are carvel planked so smooth hulls.

Typical example photo below.

Colin

Edited By Colin Bishop on 26/07/2023 19:30:57

[Ray Wood 3Participant @raywood3]

Hi All,

Well I'm just back from a family holiday at the coast with daughters, husbands , Grandchildren 7 + plus 2 partners !! I survived but only just !!

First round was £50 so after that we went to ASDA (other supermarkets were available)

Jolly glad to get back to the workshop !!

Delight all the frames and keel tacked in place with thick dobs of superglue If I need to change things , I have had a week away thinking how wrong No.1 is, this modelling game is so stressful

Too windy to sail my 12" = 1 foot Laser dinghy bought a couple of weeks ago !!

Regards Ray

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