another Clyde Puffer

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another Clyde Puffer

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  • #119675
    Len Morris 2
    Participant
      @lenmorris2

      I think either would do for a model boat.  One is waterproof, the other water resistant.

      Len

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      #119682
      Richard Simpson
      Participant
        @richardsimpson88330

        The trouble with Cascamite is that it is incredibly hard and hence unbelievably strong in compression.  In fact I once used it to make poured chocks to set up a pedestal drill on a stone floor.  The problem that brings is that it is also very brittle, which can then make it prone to cracks over long periods of time, especially when holding flexible materials together.

        #119685
        Colin Bishop
        Moderator
          @colinbishop34627

          The trouble with Cascamite is that it is incredibly hard and hence unbelievably strong in compression.

          Yes, not ideal for planking plus it takes a long time to set. Before the days of GRP cloth I used it to stick brown paper parcel tape to my hulls and finished off with a couple of coats of shellac before painting. The Cascamite bonded the tape to the hull and the shellac sanded beautifully.

          I think that before Cascamite and Aerolite came along the practice was to boil down horse hooves….

          Colin

          #119688
          Fred Ellis 1
          Participant
            @fredellis1

            Colin I think you may be thinking of Scotch Pearl Glue, the head office of Sheppy Glue was in Redhill Surrey, and there works were in Battersea and Queensborough, they were one of the main producers of bone glue in the day.

            Fred

            #119691
            Richard Simpson
            Participant
              @richardsimpson88330

              That brings back memories.  When I did woodwork at school, to ‘O’ level no less, we used either Cascamite or bone glue on all joints.  PVA, in the form of Resin ‘W’, was the new fangled ‘modern’ stuff that no-one trusted!

              #119695
              Len Morris 2
              Participant
                @lenmorris2

                Cascamite is a wood glue.

                It is not intended as a paper glue or a casting compound for bedding machine tools.  It is unfair to blame a glue for failure when it’s been misused.

                Used correctly on wood inside the joints there should be nothing to sand down.  Any excess that appears is easily wiped off with a damp cloth.

                The long setting time is advantageous when several parts need to be fitted at the same time.

                It gives a very strong joint where the wood will break first if forced.

                It is totally waterproof.

                It is expensive.

                My experience is that it will hold wooden structures together for many years even when the wood is totally sodden.

                Comments about bone glue are just silly.

                Len

                 

                 

                #119699
                Richard Simpson
                Participant
                  @richardsimpson88330

                  I think people were simply enjoying a moment of reminiscing, as frequently happens here.  Anyone is free to join in, or not, according to preference.

                  As regards Cascamite, the comment I made about using it as a pouring chock was actually to demonstrate one of it’s strengths, not weakness.  It’s not abusing it, Cascamite is a resin, which is precisely what pouring chocks are made of, even on ship’s main engines.  It’s main downside still remains that it is very brittle.  The fact that it remains widely used today, 87 years since it was introduced, is testament to its value as a glue although the formula has been modified significantly since I used it at school.  It is even now claimed to be ‘fast drying’.  It is still highly waterproof and heat resistant.

                  As I said in the first place there will be as many answers as there are members.  By coincidence I was watching “The Repair Shop” on TV only a couple of weeks ago and Will was repairing some sort of wooden cabinet.  He used a bone glue for the repair.

                  I also believe that, not only do we have our own preferences when it comes to glues, or paints, or tools, but we should keep an open mind as regards which might be the best glue for a particular application.

                  Probably the reason why I would not consider Cascamite is simply convenience.  When I am building something involved such as a framework or detail work, I usually have three grades of cyanoacrylate to hand, a bottle of polystyrene cement and a bottle of PVA.  The PVA is frequently squeezed onto a plastic palette so I can dip a toothpick in it to apply it.  When the blob starts to dry or gets used I put another blob on the palette.  I can’t imagine having to mix up quantities of Cascamite every time I want to do something so, for me simple convenience plays a big part.

                  #119728
                  Colin Bishop
                  Moderator
                    @colinbishop34627

                    Comments about bone glue are just silly.

                    My original comment was largely tongue in cheek but acknowledging that collagen glues still have a place such as when restoring antique furniture. Apparently horses are better than elephants as the chemical makeup is slightly different….

                    Richard is right about the formulation of Cascamite though, I bought some a few years back and it is very different indeed from what I remember back in the 60s and more difficult to mix. Maybe due to the drying agent perhaps.

                    Not so long ago I had a behind the scenes tour of No 4 Boathouse at Portsmouth dockyard where they build and repair wooden boats. In addition to standard carpentry joints they also build up shapes by laminating plywood. Their choice of adhesive is one of the slower setting epoxies with the time depending on the job.  A very interesting place to visit as  there is a constant turnover of boats and projects. The restaurant is pretty good too.

                    Boathouse 4

                    Colin

                    #119769
                    Len Morris 2
                    Participant
                      @lenmorris2

                      For those who like an easy to sand adhesive might I suggest flour and water.  We used to use it all the time when I was a kiddie to make papier-mache models.  Works well on model boats providing the flour is self-raising.

                      Len. 🙂

                      #119933
                      mmcp42
                      Participant
                        @mmcp42

                        thanks for all the advice

                        I went with this . . .GorillaGlue

                        #119935
                        mmcp42
                        Participant
                          @mmcp42

                          and started using it 🙂

                           

                          PufferBuild01

                          #120373
                          mmcp42
                          Participant
                            @mmcp42

                            small progress report

                            I’ve started planking

                            quality not great but improving as I get more practice!

                            54B4E0FF-D8C5-436E-A2F9-0B08E991A223

                             

                            next question will be what sanding/sealer to people recommend?

                            I’m guessing polyfilla is not the thing to use!

                            thanks in advance

                            cheers

                            Mike

                            #120375
                            Ray Wood 3
                            Participant
                              @raywood3

                              Hi Mike,

                              Do the instructions say to plank from the keel with the smaller strips ? I’d advise you plank from the deckline working up for better looking topsides one strip each side to keep the hull straight. just saying 🙂

                              Polyfiller is fine if your going to glass cloth and paint the hull or P38 body filler .

                              Regards RayDelight 10

                              #120378
                              mmcp42
                              Participant
                                @mmcp42

                                hello Ray

                                yes instructions were to plank from keel up, alternate sides to keep it straight

                                the plans also showed much bigger “planks” with clever contours

                                couldn’t get that to work, so abandoned and went with 5mm wide strips instead

                                much happier with the results

                                and thanks for the feedback, I might try polyfilla and also get some P38 to compare

                                apart from being my first build in 50 years, it’s also a bit of a learning curve as so much has changed

                                🙂

                                 

                                cheers

                                Mike

                                #120401
                                James Hill 5
                                Participant
                                  @jameshill5

                                  Hi Mike,

                                  I went with 6mm planks on my Puffer. I found it easy to encourage them to bend when needed by just soaking the required section in water for a while,(mainly just the ends).

                                  I also marked the bulkhead positions on the planks and pre- drilled them with a fine drill, and when gluing used office pins to hold the planks in place while the glue dried. I too used Gorilla glue, same as you.

                                  Watching your build with interest,

                                  Jim.

                                  #120404
                                  mmcp42
                                  Participant
                                    @mmcp42

                                    hello Jim

                                    almost identical to what I’m doing (I feel better for knowing that!)

                                    I tried office pins (push pins –  but found them to thick

                                    so I’m using “map pins” – thinner and easier to brute force through the planking

                                    cheers

                                    Mike

                                    #120406
                                    James Hill 5
                                    Participant
                                      @jameshill5

                                      Hi Mike,

                                      Glad to see you’re having some success with the planking. It’s great to see, as you progress, the shape of the hull beginning to form.

                                      I don’t know if you’ve past that, but I made the top section down from the stern deck line in one strip (about 30mm wide). Then planked up to it from the top of the bulkhead curve. Then planked out from the keel to the bottom of the bulkhead curve, then made planks to fit the remaining gap.

                                      I appreciate you may be well past this point, and if so, you won’t need any of what I’ve just said, but it may help.

                                      Jim.

                                       

                                      #120431
                                      mmcp42
                                      Participant
                                        @mmcp42

                                        hello Jim

                                        I’m about half way up with the planking

                                        need to stop and sort the prop tube next while I can still get fat fingers into the “engine room”

                                        have you done your yet?

                                        some people seem to add an oiling tube to the prop shaft

                                        I can’t decide . . .

                                        cheers

                                        Mike

                                        #120433
                                        James Hill 5
                                        Participant
                                          @jameshill5

                                          Hi Mike,

                                          I put the prop shaft in in the early stages but not an oiling tube, Iv’e since wondered if I should have done , but I think so long as you could put a drop of oil at the top bearing you should be ok. You wouldn’t need much anyway. Others will have their own preferences.

                                          If you go to the posting on my clyde puffer, you can see how the planking turned out and where I put the prop shaft.

                                          Hope the planking goes well.

                                          Jim.

                                          #120436
                                          mmcp42
                                          Participant
                                            @mmcp42

                                            hello Jim

                                            just went through your build thread again

                                            fascinating stuff

                                            I just hope I can come close to what you’ve done there!

                                            cheers

                                            Mike

                                            #120844
                                            mmcp42
                                            Participant
                                              @mmcp42

                                              project update

                                              planking coming along slowly

                                               

                                              planks2

                                              planks3

                                              have got some P38 in ready for the next step

                                              seems to come in a tin with a sachet of hardener

                                              I don’t think I want to mix up the whole tin

                                              how do people judge how much resin to hardener?

                                              or just guesswork?

                                              cheers

                                               

                                              #120846
                                              Richard Simpson
                                              Participant
                                                @richardsimpson88330

                                                It tells you in the instructions but it is in the region of 50 to 1 by weight but there is a fair degree of leeway.  You can only try to guess correctly.  Just remember that if you put more hardener in than required it will harden faster and if you put less in it will take longer to harden.  Temperature also varies the hardening time.

                                                You are right though, don’t mix too much as you only have around 5 to 6 minutes before it starts to cure and you don’t want to be applying it once it has started to cure as it won’t fill the gaps and key to the wood properly.

                                                #120849
                                                mmcp42
                                                Participant
                                                  @mmcp42

                                                  thanks Richard – that’s the nugget of information I was looking for!

                                                  don’t mix too much and err on the side of less hardener

                                                  cheers!

                                                  #120851
                                                  James Hill 5
                                                  Participant
                                                    @jameshill5

                                                    Hi Mike, Your hull is coming along well.

                                                    I must admit when doing mine I found it a bit daunting when you looked at the gaps that had to be filled with carefully sanded down planks to fit. But it turns out ok in the end.

                                                    Myself, I used Ronseal wood filler to finnish off. Are you going to plate the hull? I`d thought about it before it was suggested that it would look a lot more realistic, so I took the plunge and had a go. A couple of false starts before I got what I was looking for. Worth the effort though.

                                                    Watching your progress,

                                                    Jim.

                                                    #120854
                                                    Tim Rowe
                                                    Participant
                                                      @timrowe83142

                                                      For the ratio I was always taught golf ball / pea.  In the small mixes I use for the reasons Richard states above I am probably closer to medium marble / grain of rice!

                                                      Less is more as mmcp42 says.  It will always cure eventually

                                                      Tim

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