Bait Boat Questions

Advert

Bait Boat Questions

Home Forums Soapbox Bait Boat Questions

  • This topic is empty.
Viewing 25 posts - 1 through 25 (of 59 total)
  • Author
    Posts
  • #45800
    Paul T
    Participant
      @pault84577

      Dear All

      I have been asked to look at Bait Boats with a view to designing a bespoke unit so I thought that it would be a good idea to throw the question open to the membership for their comments, experience or advice.

      The criteria:

      The boat has maximum dimensions of 750mm x 600mm is stable and self righting

      Has an effective operating range of 200m, is fast enough for quick return trips to the drop off point and uses weed free propulsion.

      Capable of carrying a maximum 4kg of bait in 4 separate hoppers.

      Not constructed from ABS plastic.

      Any and all comments will be gratefully received.

      Paul

      Advert
      #8009
      Paul T
      Participant
        @pault84577
        #45801
        ashley needham
        Participant
          @ashleyneedham69188

          Paul. Merry xmas and all that.

          Weed free propulsion..that rules out props and paddlers, so this only realistically leaves an airboat, something I suspect may not be that practical. Sails I suppose?? perhaps not.

          Weed free propulsion may be difficult with the weight requirement…

          There are a number of designs for bait boats out there and I suggest you don't look at ANY of them so you are starting with a fresh sheet of paper, or screen in your case.

          It is a requirement to simply dump the bait in one place or have it on a conveyor belt and drive slowly in circles distributing the bait? If you had a (for instance) conical hopper, a belt could be positioned in the bottom lifting out feed continuously at the press of a button. OR have spring loaded hoppers on a latch, long rod securing them shut, gets drawn slowly one way to release the hoppers in turn.

          Stealth. A measure of stealth would be good so as not to disturb the fish, perhaps a large (when viewed from underneath) swan silhouette would suffice, possibly even using swan type feet for propulsion?? Easy to arrange ..feet "paddles" on a cam…after all..don't see many swans weeded up !! wink 2 Duck, or Canadian goose I suppose given the dimension restriction.

          What about the large Archimedes screw arrangement I have seen…like large floatation cylinders either side with a screw thread ridge along them, the screw themselves along though the water and apparently work well in snow and mud. Possibly they might be more weed resistant.

          Actually, those EDF units are very feisty and might indeed do for propulsion. Two at the rear, would be very manoeuvrable, create no water disturbance, easy to fit..come ready made, would be weed free. Bottom of the boat could be flat for reduced underwater obstacle adhesion. OR a cat of some sort?

          Not sure that I can see a situation where the bait boat would need to be self righting? unless bumped by a hungry carp or travelling at a very high speed. Floats on swing out arms, locked in place at 45 degrees from the vertical might suffice to stop capsize in the first place.

          Ashley.

          #45802
          mike farrell
          Participant
            @mikefarrell21522

            Hi Paul Well a thought ,why not use your river catamaran design from a few months back .perfect balance in water .Driven by a pair of water jets /nor weed problems no prop problems /no rudder problems .

            My son tells me they now have sat navs so maybe fit one .Angler will pay crazy money for kit

            Water jet do not mean speed but saves a lot of agro and aerates wink the water as you sail around

            #45804
            ashley needham
            Participant
              @ashleyneedham69188

              Everyone has had problems on our pond with weed, a waterjet is just as prone, and fitting a grill over the intake does no good as that just get clogged a s well!

              We have not tried paddlers in the weed mind you ?

              Ashley

              #45808
              ashley needham
              Participant
                @ashleyneedham69188

                weed and boats to operate in it. check this out….paddlers or auger screw propelled craft they have!

                **LINK**

                Ashley

                #45817
                Bob Abell 2
                Participant
                  @bobabell2

                  Paul……You've got me hooked!

                  I 'm thinking that a Tea Tray shape, with beveled edges all round and skim over the weedy water?

                  For motive power……Hovercraft type pods on either side, which can also act as steerage too

                  The bait boxes would be a nice fit in the middle

                  Sounds OK to me, matey?

                  Bob

                  #45821
                  Amy jane September
                  Participant
                    @amyjaneseptember49770

                    Hey that's really cool Ashley. I must show it to Lynn, she has a river running through her back yard, and spends days every summer pulling out arm loads of oxygen weed!

                    Just a thought on your tea tray Bob. I once tried my 14' flat bottomed skiff on Lynn's river when it was well weeded up, Her round bottomed canoe got through it a lot easier, even though it drew twice as much….

                    #45822
                    Amy jane September
                    Participant
                      @amyjaneseptember49770

                      I like the idea of a wide, deep and narrow hulled catamaran, with an air drive my self… not self righting I realise, But nigh on impossible to capsize in the first place!

                      #45824
                      Bob Abell 2
                      Participant
                        @bobabell2

                        Ashley….A paddler with metal floats, a few thou clear of the paddle box entry/depart points would act as a weed mower!

                        What a stonking` idea?

                        Bob

                        #45828
                        ashley needham
                        Participant
                          @ashleyneedham69188

                          Bob. I like that idea however I think that you would have trouble getting rid of the cut weed.

                          A paddle seems to be the thing though for weed duties.

                          A cat hull..would this be larger than the equivalent monohull , given the dimension restrictions?

                          A sidewall hovercraft (like a cat with just a skirt front and rear, to offload some of the weight) would also be good in the weed but still the propulsion issue remains. A paddle sidewall hovercraft would certainly be novel!! OR..a couple of swivelling EDF units, 75mm or so, for propulsion, and bleed a portion of air off them for lift…..

                          Amy. A river in her back garden (we don't have yards here) !! heaven.

                          Ashley

                          #45833
                          Dave Milbourn
                          Participant
                            @davemilbourn48782

                            I would go for a wide catamaran shape with one of these in each corner for propulsion and steering **LINK**

                            DM

                            #45841
                            Paul T
                            Participant
                              @pault84577

                              Thank you all for such an interesting and wide ranging collection of replies, all of which have been very helpful (even Ashleys paddle wheel drive) and given me lots to think about.

                              I am having a look at the commercial units to see how they operate and then compare them to the design criteria.

                              Paul

                              #45915
                              Paul T
                              Participant
                                @pault84577

                                Having spent some time researching the commercial units the first thing that jumps out is how much money fishermen are willing to part with for what are very cheaply built plastic boxes.

                                I have started to sketch out a basic shape based upon my RiverCat design, (thanks Mike for the prompt) and I am happy to say that after a chat with the 'client' the weight section of the design criteria has been reduced from 5 to 2.5kilos.

                                Paul

                                #45916
                                ashley needham
                                Participant
                                  @ashleyneedham69188

                                  And the "operate in Sargasso sea" requirement??

                                  Ashkey

                                  #45919
                                  Paul T
                                  Participant
                                    @pault84577

                                    Ashkey

                                    It still needs to operate in weed but water jets are to slow so it will be powered by props in weed cages, tank steering so no rudders.

                                    Paul

                                    #45972
                                    Paul T
                                    Participant
                                      @pault84577

                                      As one of the problems that I have to overcome is stability on a choppy lake so I have been doing more research into hull shapes and I have found the possibility that a flat bottomed tug style profile might be better suited to the task than a catamaran so I am playing around with a TID hull and single kort prop (encased in a weed cage) to see which hull shape works best.

                                      Paul

                                      #46014
                                      ashley needham
                                      Participant
                                        @ashleyneedham69188

                                        On the face of it, the boat does not have to look like anything, and simply has to go out, dump a quantity of fishy comestibles in the place of your choosing and come back.

                                        Making something curvy when it can be made of entirely flat pieces seems to be an unnecessary sophistication?

                                        Likely a scaled up landing craft would do the job ??

                                        Ashley (just giving a different perspective)

                                        #46015
                                        Paul T
                                        Participant
                                          @pault84577

                                          Ashley

                                          The majority of commercial bait boats are cat or planing hulls all of which have stability problems as they sit high in the water.

                                          One of my design problems is addressing the possibility of turning over on a choppy lake as this boat has to operate at Sale Water Park so I am looking at flat bottomed displacement hulls with low freeboard and using a low mounted rotating drum to carry and dump the load through the flat bottom.

                                          I these ramblings make sense but I will be doing some sketches soon that will better explain what I mean.

                                          Paul

                                          #46030
                                          LARRY WHETTON
                                          Participant
                                            @larrywhetton68737

                                            Hi Paul,

                                            Happy new year, its got to be see photo cheers Larry………….skimmer 2

                                            #46031
                                            Bob Abell 2
                                            Participant
                                              @bobabell2

                                              Well done, Larry

                                              This fits the bill admirably…..Job done and dusted!

                                              A possible solution, Paul?

                                              Bob

                                              #46035
                                              Paul T
                                              Participant
                                                @pault84577

                                                Thanks Larry

                                                I hadn't considered using an airscrew as propulsion but an airboat might be a bit skittish for the accurate positioning of bait and a tad too top heavy and so possibly unstable in a side wind.

                                                A possible solution, Paul?

                                                You tell me Bob

                                                #46041
                                                ashley needham
                                                Participant
                                                  @ashleyneedham69188

                                                  Unfortunately I have experience of prop driven craft, 6 to be precise and the wind is definitely an issue, as is noise. However a couple of 75mm ducted fans at each rear corner might be a possibility..plenty of go, excellent dynamic positioning capability if the units swivelled right around. Air boats are normally light and shallow and so this is always an issue weather wise, but the boat you are considering is a NORMAL boat and so the weather would not affect it so much.

                                                  Weed free of course.

                                                  Possibly a couple of foam cylinders hanging on the bulwarks (like a RIB) would prevent capsize, by adding weight free buoyancy to prevent the boat going right over.

                                                  OR how about a sidewall hovercraft style design. Weight offloaded by air in the centre section of the cat hull..

                                                  Ashley

                                                  #46185
                                                  Philip Smith 4
                                                  Participant
                                                    @philipsmith4

                                                    Having not seen the river cat project I cant comment on its suitability, but a wide beam is essential for stability after any side hoppers start to be unloaded. I know, I have built simple bait boat designs that failed dismally in this respect. Most of the original DIY bait boats began life as something like this:-

                                                    **LINK**

                                                    But I tried to mount side hoppers to allow me to two loads of bait in differeint areas:-

                                                    **LINK**

                                                    However once one hopper had been unloaded the couple of kilos of bait still in the on the opposite side pulled the hull over making steering a bit of a nightmare. So I went back to the old rear hopper design in the short term:-

                                                    **LINK**

                                                    This winter though I think I will try a wider hull shape, something along the lines of this, (sorry about the poor digital drawing by the way) :-

                                                    **LINK**

                                                    BOF wink

                                                    #46197
                                                    Paul T
                                                    Participant
                                                      @pault84577

                                                      Hi Phil

                                                      The problem with rear and side hoppers is having to compensate for the rapidly changing centre of gravity when the load is expelled.

                                                      I am currently playing around with a deep displacement hull that discharges the load through the bottom of the boat, with this design I can keep the centre of gravity low and in the centre of the hull and produce a bait boat that will remain stable in rough water.

                                                      Early days yet but the calculations are promising.

                                                      Paul

                                                      I  have created an album with some photos of RiverCat if you wish to look.

                                                      rivercat 6.jpg

                                                      rivercat fig 8.jpg

                                                      Edited By Paul T on 09/01/2014 12:50:38

                                                    Viewing 25 posts - 1 through 25 (of 59 total)
                                                    • Please log in to reply to this topic. Registering is free and easy using the links on the menu at the top of this page.

                                                    Code of conduct | Forum Help/FAQs

                                                    Advert

                                                    Latest Replies

                                                    Home Forums Soapbox Topics

                                                    Viewing 25 topics - 1 through 25 (of 25 total)
                                                    Viewing 25 topics - 1 through 25 (of 25 total)

                                                    View full reply list.

                                                    Advert

                                                    Newsletter Sign-up