Three Island Tramp Steamer

Three Island Tramp Steamer

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  • #98739
    Bob Wilson
    Participant
      @bobwilson59101

      Another of my obscure ship drawings. This time of a three-island tramp steamer, named Baron Vernon, owned by H Hogarth.

      baron vernon with name copy (large).jpg

      #4775
      Bob Wilson
      Participant
        @bobwilson59101
        #98741
        Richard Simpson
        Moderator
          @richardsimpson88330

          That would make a lovely model. Did you build that one Bob?

          #98743
          Bob Wilson
          Participant
            @bobwilson59101

            No – I haven't built it. I am in the final stages of drawing up the plans. If I do build it, it will not be until the better weather starts. It is rather too dark and cold at the moment, and some work has to be done outside.

            It is by no means certain that I will build it as I am now getting hooked on plan drawing as it is rather more relaxing and less messy..

            Bob

            boat deck midships - poop deckhouse top - copy.jpg

            #98746
            Ray Wood 3
            Participant
              @raywood3

              Hi Bob,

              Like this era of ship straight out of the Tintin books which I was brought up on

              A shame she came to grief during the war, U-604 but all souls saved

              Are you working from a draft with lines etc ? It would go well with Simplicity at 1/72 scale which I'm about to re-start as I have sourced some rub down dots for the portlights.

              I would guess your working from your experience, yes drawing is the enjoyable part I find, building is !!

              Kind Regards Ray

              #98749
              Bob Wilson
              Participant
                @bobwilson59101

                I have an old blueprint in my plans collection. So indistinct that I can hardly see it. I am laboriously producing this plan myself. I drew the main profile on a piece of card 23 inches by 8 inches. Same for the plan view of all the decks. But the boatdeck and bridge deck and plans above I made using the simple shapes section of Word 2000 word processing program, as they would fit on an A4 sheet, but the lifeboats are hand drawn. I will later resize them in the printer/scanner. I do not have a lines plan. But most of those tramps were all very similar in shape. Here is a deck plan of another ship on the drawing board. Bob

                 

                hylton deck plan - (large).jpg

                Edited By Bob Wilson on 07/12/2021 09:28:05

                #98750
                Colin Bishop
                Moderator
                  @colinbishop34627

                  It is similar to my Reculver featured in the current issue except that Baron Vernon has a hatch between the bridge and funnel.

                  Lots of character in these old designs.

                  Colin

                  reculver.jpg

                  #98758
                  Bob Wilson
                  Participant
                    @bobwilson59101

                    That is a smart-looking model. But from what I can see, there is the usual gap between bridge structure and funnel, so there really should be a hatch there, but I don't see any derrick posts either

                    #98759
                    Colin Bishop
                    Moderator
                      @colinbishop34627

                      There isn't actually much of a gap Bob, see below. Although not intended to be a specific vessel I did base it on some material I found at the time (mid 1970s) and can't recall what it was. As you can see, I opted for cranes as a change from derricks as I discovered that some ships of the period carried them.

                      Colin

                      reculver 2.jpg

                      #98765
                      Bob Wilson
                      Participant
                        @bobwilson59101

                        Having no centre was also becoming more popular in later years, so I would say that from viewing the photograph above, it is quite correct. Also, I see that you have a rounded stern on it, thus moving the ship to a slightly later era when the 'midship hatch was less common I really think that originally, they had the 'midship hatch to separate the engineers from the deck officers, but by the time I went to sea in 1961, we were mostly in the same accommodation block, with everyone getting on well together. I did sail on four ships with the gap, separating engine-room staff from deck staff. I quite liked the centre hatch, not because of the separation, but because it was a pleasant place to be outside in the tropics – a canvas-covered hatch, sheltered from the wind at each end. This is the oldest one I was in with the centre hatch – Richmond Castle, 1944. (Second one up on the right hand side). The one above it, my first ship Rhodesia Star, did not have a gap at all!

                        Bob

                        fourteen images (large).jpg

                        #98766
                        Colin Bishop
                        Moderator
                          @colinbishop34627

                          Bob,

                          There is a reason for the rounded stern!

                          You won't have seen my article in the current issue. I have sent you a copy by email. Let me know if not received.

                          I thought it was an ingenious conversion. Looks like it came out OK from your comments.

                          Colin

                          #98767
                          Bob Wilson
                          Participant
                            @bobwilson59101

                            Colin

                            It has not arrived yet –

                            Rounded sterns started to come in long before the counter lost its popularity. As in Hylton, bottom right in my above picture

                            Bob

                            #98768
                            Richard Simpson
                            Moderator
                              @richardsimpson88330

                              From my own background I've always known rounded sterns as a cruiser stern and always thought they were there for additional buoyancy in heavy weather. From what I gather eventually the additional cost of producing the curved plates outweighed the advantages and so transom sterns started to be more normal.

                              Ship design is always an interesting subject though, whatever bit you are looking at.

                              Edited By Richard Simpson on 07/12/2021 19:46:14

                              #98769
                              Bob Wilson
                              Participant
                                @bobwilson59101

                                There was a slight difference. In cruiser sterns, the top was slightly shorter than the lower part. In my 14 profiles above, the Richmond Castle has a cruiser stern, whilst the Rhodesia Star, was rounded. I sailed with quite a few cruiser and rounded sterns, but only with two transoms. The reason I often heard, and don't know if it was true, that the old-fashioned counter did not provide enough space for the steering gear. I never sailed with a counter stern, but saw plenty of them in the early 60s.

                                #98770
                                Bob Wilson
                                Participant
                                  @bobwilson59101

                                  This is the cruiser stern of my old ship Pendennis Castle –

                                  Bob

                                  pendennis castle criser stren.jpg

                                  #98771
                                  Colin Bishop
                                  Moderator
                                    @colinbishop34627

                                    I think you are right regarding the old fashioned counter. I am currentl;y builing the ps Bilsdale paddle steamer and there is no room for any steering gear below deck. For my model, and probably for the original ship, there is a raised grating at the stern above the rudder head.

                                    Linkages to the bridge steering were typically a combination of rods and chains at deck level which were led up to the wheelhouse/steering position.

                                    Colin

                                    Edited By Colin Bishop on 07/12/2021 20:37:08

                                    #98772
                                    Richard Simpson
                                    Moderator
                                      @richardsimpson88330

                                      Thanks Bob. If that was along the sides I have always referred to it as "Tumble Home" so would the same term apply around the stern?

                                      Interesting thoughts on steering gear. When I first went to sea most steering gears were of a four ram Hastie type, which was usually quite a substantial piece of kit and took up the whole beam of the ship. For probably about the last 30 years though I have always sailed with rotary vane steering gears, which are infinitely more compact for the same torque so required much smaller steering gear compartments.

                                      As an example the rudders shown here in the first picture were each operated by the rotary vane steering gear in the second and third pictures.  That's actually the top of the rudder stock in the second picture.

                                      #39crew.jpg

                                      9-15--15-rudder.jpg

                                      9-15--16-rudder.jpg

                                      Edited By Richard Simpson on 07/12/2021 22:44:04

                                      #98774
                                      Bob Wilson
                                      Participant
                                        @bobwilson59101

                                        Tumblehome on the sides, but I have never heard the term in connection with the stern. Just "cruiser stern." Inside the stern of the Pendennis Castle (just over 30,000 grt) there was an enormous quadrant that seemed to have a large worm gear to move it round. Probably very old-fashioned, with the ship completed in 1957. The Good Hope Castle, completed in about 1965 was similar, but I never looked at the steering systems of the rest of them. I really wonder about flat transoms – were they just to save a bit of money. In 1977, I was appointed to a brand new cargo liner that had just been completd to an old design. Sh was very basic, had a rounded stern, clipper bow and round funnel and was virtually trouble free, and the most comfortable cargo ship I ever sailed in. I was there for over a year. We started as Silveravon, but after one voyage to Jeddah, we weer chartered to a Wset African company, Sivomar, but remained registered in London under the new name of Bandama. I left in 1979 to return to passenger ships (RMS St Helena). She is the second one down under the grey sailing ship on the left of my 14 ship profiles above. – Bob

                                        #98775
                                        Colin Bishop
                                        Moderator
                                          @colinbishop34627

                                          Flat transoms were introduced as they were found to give more hydrodynamic efficiencey at the stern by effectively increasing the ship's 'length' by the amount hypothetically cut off had a rounded stern been there. Not so important for slowish merchant ships but quite significant for fast warships, even battleships like HMS Vanguard.

                                          Some further info here:

                                          **LINK**

                                          Colin

                                          #98790
                                          Bob Wilson
                                          Participant
                                            @bobwilson59101

                                            All this technical stuff washes over my head these days. I quit the rat-race of life at sea in life at sea late 1992, having got fed up of technical "improvements" that made things far too complicated and hard to deal with. In all the 19 ships I sailed in, I found that the more modern they got, the less well they performed. I sailed in this one for a couple of years in the early 60s, and hardly anything ever went wrong in any department.. I left her 56 years ago, and could walk back aboard tomorrow and remember how everything I dealt with worked, how to operate it and repair it in the unlikely event of breakdown. I am afraid modern sea life leaves me cold, and if I was leaving school today, I would never dream of going to sea –

                                            I am fortunate being able to remain associated with the ships I preferred by drawing them, building models of them, or writing about them.sagamore in sea with storm clouds(large).jpg

                                            #98791
                                            Bob Wilson
                                            Participant
                                              @bobwilson59101

                                              My first ship – 1961 – rhodesia star (medium).jpg

                                              #98792
                                              Richard Simpson
                                              Moderator
                                                @richardsimpson88330

                                                An interesting take on it Bob. I am actually a great advocate for keeping things simple with as few moving parts are possible. Hence why I think a gas boiler is a far better piece of equipment that a heat pump could ever be. We all too frequently fall into the trap nowadays of adding technology for the sake of technology which seems to either add functionality that we simply do not need or generate masses of data that is of little use to us. We also seem to use technology to justify jobs, which was never the vision 40-50 years ago when the advent of computers was seen as allowing everyone much more free time.

                                                Having said that, when technology is used sensibly and in a manner to do useful things, that's when I see the real interest. In my time I have sailed on container ships that had their own crane on deck so they could handle their own cargo in any port in the world, irrespective of facilities. The ship you see above had the two motor driven props, two high lift rudders, two variable pitch stern thrusters and three variable pitch bow thrusters. She could turn around not just within her own length but you could also decide whether to rotate about the bow, the stern or the midship point, making it as maneouvrable as a tug but without needing any assistance. On top of all that the five engines, being in a diesel electric installation are very flexibly used to maximise efficiency and burn fuel incredibly efficiently.

                                                I was lucky enough to start out on some older vessels and while appreciating the traditional simplicity had to admit that combustion was extremely inefficient leading to very high maintenance loads and huge wastes of fuel. I think we all tend to look back on the golden years with fondness but the reality is that when I started over 40 crew were required to operate a 800 TEU container ship whereas nowadays 12 crew operate a ship carrying over 20,000 TEU. I just think it is a great shame that the UK did not keep up with developments and continue to lead the world with technological advancements as they used to in the days of QE2, Concorde, Harrier jump jets and the E-Type Jaguar, etc…etc…etc…

                                                Edited By Richard Simpson on 11/12/2021 09:36:45

                                                #98797
                                                Bob Wilson
                                                Participant
                                                  @bobwilson59101

                                                  No doubt more efficient fuel-wise. Windsor Castle guzzled 250 tons of heavy oil a day! On a cargo ship with a crew of over 40, that was helping with employment, and they were all paying income tax as well, so there were benefits. I was fortunate enough to joining the 1963-built St Helena in 1979, remaining there 11 years until they sold her. I could manage everything in my case, down to component-level repairs, and that included the normal MF IF and HF w/t and teleprinter systems, both radar sets, public address systems,echo sounder, auto pilot, internal telephone systems, TVs and video systems. In the last years, we had satellite communications as well, but I was told not to try and fix it, just identify the faulty board, and it would be replaced by a "nominal fee." The "nominal fee" turned out to be well over £1,000 a time and it was not very reliable either.

                                                  When we all went to the new ship, the famous St Helena (II) , my first three months aboard for the supposed voyage 2 was spent in dry dock in Falmouth. Side cut out of ship to put a complete new engine in, as one of them (twin screw) destroyed itself in the last few days of the maiden voyage. All the fire alarms then came under my care in the new ship, as well as a whole heap of other unwanted (by me) electronic junk. Even turning a cabin light on did not just close a circuit, the switch has a complicated circuit full of ICs, transistors and relays on the back. Then I was lumbered with all the computers and servo watch systems. So I was spending 8 hours a day on watch, and when I was supposed to be off, fixing, or trying to fix, electronic equipment all over the ship from engine-room upwards, and then expected to help entertain passengers in the evening. I was glad to take voluntary redundancy in late 1992 when they made us all redundant, paid us up and offered us our jobs back at a greatly reduced rate! Not exactly the fault of the company, as they were just the managers, the government owned the ship! Very comfortable of course, but I preferred the old one any day, even though she was 27 years old when they sold her. A lot of the old officers and crew are still together on Facebook, from the deputy managing director down, and it really was a good outfit to work for – but the new technology created more problems than anything else. It was great for the non-technical departments This is the new ship. I did not build it. A courier dropped it, and I got the job of repairing it (after I had left to take up model shipbuilding full-time)

                                                  Bob

                                                  rms st helena after (large).jpg

                                                  #98798
                                                  Bob Wilson
                                                  Participant
                                                    @bobwilson59101

                                                    Perfect seafaring contentment – me in 1982 aboard the old ship. Had honeymoon voyage aboard as well, so the old ship is quite dear to both of us!

                                                    Bob

                                                    r a wilson 1982.jpg

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