ss Miltiades 1903

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ss Miltiades 1903

Home Forums Scratch build ss Miltiades 1903

  • This topic has 57 replies, 9 voices, and was last updated 3 months ago by ashley needham.
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  • #120120
    Colin Bishop
    Moderator
      @colinbishop34627

      Having finished my paddler Bilsdale and Greek Fishing Boat I am now revisiting my partially completed build of the ss Miltiades of 1901. When construction was suspended back in 2021 during Covid, I had essentially completed the hull and fitted out the running gear. The loss of sight in one eye due to a retinal vein occlusion made continuing with the build at 1:150 scale problematical, hence the reversion to subsequent larger scale models.

      The success of the two subsequent models  has encouraged me to return to Miltiades but working to the much smaller scale is going to be a challenge. However, never say no and I hope to maintain the standards of the current state of the build. Miltiades is a lovely prototype and I still hope to do her justice. A few images below.

      Colin

      (DTR)IMG_2806(DTR)IMG_2835(DTR)IMG_2844DSCN0210

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      #120121
      Richard Simpson
      Participant
        @richardsimpson88330

        Lovely ship Colin.  Interesting to observe the design features still carried over from sailing ship days into the era of steam propulsion.  The very yacht looking bow with a bow sprit and the barn door rudder being quite noticeable examples.

        Being a meat and fruit carrier she would have been pretty fast for her day as well and possibly one of the earliest examples of a refrigerated ship?

        #120155
        Colin Bishop
        Moderator
          @colinbishop34627

          Yes Richard, Miltiades and her sister Marathon were crack ships in their day on the UK Australia run and the last to carry bowsprits. Owners took pride in the appearance of their vessels in those days compared with the utilitarian appearance of today’ ships with curves nowhere to be seen. They may be efficient but they are not always easy on the eye.

          I have now checked the hull over after three years on the bench and it looks pretty good subject to a couple of minor painting defects being rectified.

          I still have all the research material so hopefully construction can resume imminently.

          Colin

          #121339
          Colin Bishop
          Moderator
            @colinbishop34627

            There were a few more corrections needed than I initially realised but have dealt with these and am pressing on slowly. Pic below shows the deckhouse construction. Portholes are disks punched from pinstripe tape, handrails are made by threading tiny slices of wire insulation representing supports onto thin brass wire. Doors are printed out from reduced scans of bigger scratch built doors made of 0.4mm play and mahogany stripwood. Door handles are small brass pins.

            The trick is in getting the right degree of detail for the scale and within my building capabilities. Like all models it will be a compromise but I’m hoping it will look OK eventually. The 12 steam winches on around 10×10 mm baseplates will be fun although I did make a lot of these to this scale back in the 1980s for my Empress of India of the same period (see below) and still have a couple to use as references.

            Colin

            IMG_6098 (DTR))

            Empress of India (2)

             

             

             

            #121385
            ashley needham
            Participant
              @ashleyneedham69188

              Nice work Colin. Makes the bow look very chunky seeing it with the portholes.
              <p style=”text-align: left;”>I simply could not work that small I must say. 2mm portholes…!!!!</p>
              Ashley

              #121396
              Colin Bishop
              Moderator
                @colinbishop34627

                Looking at the shell (hull) doors today. The top half lifts vertically and the bottom half horizontally so good fun in trying to represent the hinges.

                The more I get into the model the more detail issues arise – it’s almost fractal!

                I thought I had 12 identical steam cargo winches but in fact a lot of them are handed with drums on one side and a couple have extended warping drums. Fortunately the basic construction seems to be the same.

                Colin

                IMG_3273 (DTR))

                #121606
                Bob Wilson
                Participant
                  @bobwilson59101

                  Very nice indeeed.   This is how I drilled portholes all at exactly the correct height – 

                  10 Drilling portholes

                  #121607
                  Colin Bishop
                  Moderator
                    @colinbishop34627

                    That is a good method Bob, I used  Tamiya masking tape to set the porthole  levels and place the self adhesive disks resting on that.

                    The more I get into this model the more discrepancies I find between the Carpenter, Bowen and Maritime Museum plans, the builder’s model and the available photographs. Both the Carpenter and Bowen plans are inaccurate in some respects but sometimes one and sometimes the other so I am having to work out the best compromise. It is clear that the ship was not built strictly according to the plans and that the builders model is inaccurate in some respects, particularly the placing of the lifeboats.

                    Still, I don’t suppose anyone will notice on my model!

                    Colin

                    #121612
                    Richard Simpson
                    Participant
                      @richardsimpson88330

                      Builder’s models and drawings frequently had differences to the finished product as design details frequently changed during the construction process and drawings were sometimes updated, and sometimes weren’t.  From this process drawings would be copied and distributed at varying points along the design and build process so invariably including different numbers of the modifications.

                      From that point on the modifications continue throughout the ship’s life, some being included in original drawings as later versions but frequently only existing as a modification drawing.

                      One of the more extreme cases, and one to which I have always had close dealings with, would be the QE2.  Every major dry dock throughout her career included significant changes that would completely change the appearance of a model of her.  You basically have to choose a specific point in time and stick with it.  It would depend on which aspects of her appearance you thought you like and those you didn’t.  The biggest external visual differences would be the likes of the Magradome, the Penthouses, the Funnel after the re-engining, or even the pebble grey hull in 1983!

                      Imagine a model of the SS Norway, who in their right mind would want to include the two landing craft on the fore castle!

                      #121614
                      Colin Bishop
                      Moderator
                        @colinbishop34627

                        Yes, the QE2 was constantly altered both inside and out. Here she is, outbound from Southampton in July 2007. We kept well clear. I can’t quite believe it was 17 years ago! It was a shame when they removed the forward observation lounge to make room for a kitchen.

                        I want to represent Miltiades as completed as near as I can make it. Fortunately the discrepancies in the various records are of a minor nature.

                        Colin

                         

                        QE2 [Desktop Resolution]

                        #121686
                        Colin Bishop
                        Moderator
                          @colinbishop34627

                          As a break from the hull and superstructure I decided to have a go at the funnel and its casing. At 1:150 scale it is not really practical to represent all the fine detail but you can do a lot with colour, shapes and texture to suggest it. The result is more akin to a 3D painting than a photographic image as Bob Wilson achieves with his even smaller scales. Even so, there are approximately 50 pieces of material making up this item. It is mostly fabricated in plastic with the funnel itself being lightweight electrical conduit left over from my Bilsdale paddle steamer which just happened to be the right size. The final result is not quite as light as I’d like it to be but Miltiades was a very deep draught ship and a ballasted bath test of the hull suggests that top weight should not be a problem.

                          Colin

                          Funnel (1)Funnel (2)

                          #121692
                          Bob Wilson
                          Participant
                            @bobwilson59101

                            Colin

                            The whole thing is looking excellent, and the Miltiades was a fine looking ship.   I preferred the smaller scales myself, as I never had much patience, and it was more convenient to transport smaller ones.    I haven’t built anything for over a year now, but have enjoyed moving into plan drawing instead, although I like to watch the progress on models like this, but unfortunately, they seem to be as rare as diamonds.

                            Bob

                             

                            #121693
                            Colin Bishop
                            Moderator
                              @colinbishop34627

                              Thanks for the thumbs up Bob. Appreciated. I did think that when I lost an eye during Covid I would be unable to continue working at this scale but it is not turning out too badly after all although a lot more care is needed. Although not apparent in the photos the light and air openings and the boiler room fiddley gratings are both suggested in incised plasticard.

                              The main cowl vents are commercial items but the smaller ones are styrene half beads mounted on plastic tube with a stamped out red vinyl circle from Trimline tape. It is quite effective at the distance the model is intended to be viewed.

                              The overall length of the hull is 39 inches.

                              I will continue to post progress.

                              Colin

                              #121697
                              Richard Simpson
                              Participant
                                @richardsimpson88330

                                Very tidy Colin, you certainly would not guess it is 1/150th

                                #121968
                                Colin Bishop
                                Moderator
                                  @colinbishop34627

                                  Struggling a bit with the many skylights at this scale. Back in the 80s I made some very good ones for the previous liner models but these are just about on the limit of my modelling capacity now. I am resorting to making 4x models of the skylight windows and then reducing them in Photoshop Elements and printing them out on photo paper and glueing them to the plasticard skylight framework.

                                  I will post images in due course.

                                  Colin

                                  Skylight Article illistration

                                  #122104
                                  Colin Bishop
                                  Moderator
                                    @colinbishop34627

                                    Some of the skylights are now done. The more I get into the detail of this ship the more discrepancies I find within the drawings and between these, the Builders Model and the few available photographs. The skylights are a case in point there are a number scattered over the vessel which admit mainly light to the accommodation spaces below and two very large ones over the engine room which serve to exhaust air taken in from the many cowl vents. The number of windows in the accommodation skylights can vary depending on which drawing you are looking at although they all come from the builder while the Builder’s Model show all the skylights to the same design, including those over the engine room which seems unlikely when you look at other contemporary models of similar ships.

                                    It does look like the plans were drawn up by the builder, but neither the ship nor the Builders Model depicted the actual vessel with total accuracy. I suppose this was to be expected as things change during construction, but is a bit frustrating in deciding what to put on my model. The skylights appear in the right places but the number of windows in the top can vary depending on which drawing you are looking at or the Builders Model.

                                    On the plus side it does leave me with a bit of modeller’s licence in depicting these items and of course at 1:150 scale only a certain amount of detail can be shown anyway. Overall the model should look OK at the distance it is intended to be viewed from.

                                    It is interesting that the 1:1200 miniature plans from John Bowen and R Carpenter both differ from each other and from the original plans although at that scale it is even less noticeable.

                                    Colin

                                    IMG_6142 (Copy)

                                    #122106
                                    Richard Simpson
                                    Participant
                                      @richardsimpson88330

                                      On the plus side Colin, no-one can say its wrong!

                                      #122108
                                      gecon
                                      Participant
                                        @gecon

                                        Wow Colin, you’re a wizzard🫡. A scale of 1:150? I’m finished blaming my glaucoma for poor detailwork at a wopping scale of 1:33🤐

                                        A really great looking ship.

                                        George

                                        #122110
                                        Colin Bishop
                                        Moderator
                                          @colinbishop34627

                                          Yes, with just one working eye it is a bit of a challenge to say the least. But I started the model, and another to the same scale a while back so I’d like to complete them to a reasonable standard if I can.

                                          Colin

                                          #122340
                                          Colin Bishop
                                          Moderator
                                            @colinbishop34627

                                            Having difficulty in figuring things out!

                                            The model is 1:150 scale and I have built it to that. It is also supposed to be compatible with model railways, N gauge so I ordered some figures and deck seats to this scale. Some of the seats looked about right, others were too small. The figures I ordered to populate the ship were supposed to be N gauge, 1:150, but are actually too small at 10mm and about 5 feet 6 inches high to scale. I really need 1:144 or 12mm figures to fit the model.There are plenty of these on sale but 12mm is a wargaming scale so all that seems to be available are WW2 combat troops or ancient Greek heroes. The latter might tie in with the name of the ship but a warrior brandishing a spear on the bridge is not really what I am looking for.

                                            Thermopylae 1

                                            #122350
                                            Richard Simpson
                                            Participant
                                              @richardsimpson88330

                                              Model railway bits and pieces are notoriously inconsistent in scale, particularly when it comes to figures.  ‘N’ gauge is technically supposed to be 1:159 but manufacturers produce items at anything from 1:148 to 1:160.

                                              Have you looked at ModelU?  Not a lot of navy specific figures but some of the railway figures in uniform could be painted up suitably and they will actually produce a figure to whatever specific scale you ask for.  Might be worth a browse.

                                              #122356
                                              Colin Bishop
                                              Moderator
                                                @colinbishop34627

                                                Thanks for the suggestion Richard and I’ve had a look. There are in fact some period civilians which look nice in the illustrations but reducing them down to 1:148 would lose much of the detail and they are still very expensive when you have a 6,500 ton liner to populate!

                                                Colin

                                                Edit, I have found some figures on eBay which appear to be a bit larger. The have to come from China but it’s only £5 so I can afford to take a chance.

                                                #122388
                                                Colin Bishop
                                                Moderator
                                                  @colinbishop34627

                                                  Promenade deck houses now screwed on. Adding the boat deck and its supports is going to be tricky and needs careful thought although I think I can see the way forward. A jig will be needed.

                                                  Colin

                                                  IMG_6286 (Copy)

                                                  #122392
                                                  gecon
                                                  Participant
                                                    @gecon

                                                    Looks very impressive indeed Colin. I wouldn’t dare to try a build at that scale. Though I built a few plastic ‘N’ railway buildings when I ‘digressed’ a few years ago.

                                                    I noticed when buying figures for my N-gauge Fleischmann that sizes varied a bit. I think most UK products are 1:148 while others manufacture at 1:160. I didn’t notice if Hattons had figures at 1:148 as I only looked for some small vehicles.

                                                    George

                                                    #122394
                                                    gecon
                                                    Participant
                                                      @gecon

                                                      I see that Graham Farish ‘N’ is 1:148 and they have some ready painted civilian figures with suitcases etc in 1960’s period clothing. Don’t know the ‘height’ of the individuals though. Not cheap, but look well painted….to my eyes, at least. I don’t expect you’re planning to paint them yourself ? !

                                                      George

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