Fairey 23 River Cruiser

[Chris FellowsParticipant @chrisfellows72943]

As building of my Swordsman and commencement of building of my Huntsman 28 has been curtailed for the time being, due to my workshop (smallest bedroom!) being temporarily out of action what with it being filled with boxes etc. from the spare bedroom so that it could be used for guests over the festive season and wanting to do something model boat related I thought I'd return to the drawing board or rather the PC.

Continuing with the Fairey theme but I wanted to do something a little different and so decided to start drawing up plans for the 23 foot river cruiser. Only one boat, the prototype, was built by Fairey and it never went into production.

The hull was based on the Huntress but with a less deep vee as a deep vee isn't required for the more sedate and calmer river cruising and will produce less wash.

I've attached a screen shot of the side view – I need to increase the freeboard though as it doesn't look quite right and realised that this needs to be done to compensate for the depth lost by reducing the vee as otherwise it would have been difficult to find room for the engine etc. in the full size boat.

Once this has been done I can crack on with producing the frames etc.

The river cruiser doesn't have the elegant lines of the seagoing Faireys due to the rather dumpy looking rear cabin but I like it because it is different and I have more of an affinity with cruisers having done quite a bit of river cruising and a trip on the Norfolk Broads in my younger days.

Chris

[Chris FellowsParticipant @chrisfellows72943]

[ashley needhamParticipant @ashleyneedham69188]

Chris. I would build the thing as dimensioned by Fairey`s.

It was a prototype, and if you alter it, it will simply become a n other Fairey barring having a larger cabin.

Ashley

[Chris FellowsParticipant @chrisfellows72943]

That's what I'm intending to do Ashley.

Trouble is I only have one photograph to work from, which is at a slight angle to the side and looking slightly down.

The freeboard in the photo is greater than in my drawing (and the Huntress), which is why I said that it didn't look quite right. And as I said, the overall depth of the hull needs to be the same to provide sufficient room for the diesel engine etc.

I've now modified my drawing and am as happy as I can be with it. Now working on the frames etc.

Chris

[Dave MilbournParticipant @davemilbourn48782]

Chris

Hang fire for a couple of days before you start cutting timber. I may be able to find some more information; the feelers are out!

Dave M

[Chris FellowsParticipant @chrisfellows72943]

Hi Dave

Will do, be interesting what you find out. As it is I'm assuming that it has a rear window along the lines of the front one.

Latest drawing attached. Still not convinced that the freeboard is deep enough. What do you reckon? The angle of the photograph obviously foreshortens it and makes it look more chunky. The line of the chine is obviously fixed as it's determined by the mould but I suppose I could increase the freeboard a little more. As said, so far I've increased the freeboard to match the reduction in the vee but it doesn't have to be. I've also dropped the angle of the deck so that it's closer to the angle of the flat part of the chine.

Chris

[Colin BishopModerator @colinbishop34627]

That after cabin must have been a bit cramped. Presumably a double bunk athwartships and no en suite!

Colin

[Dave MilbournParticipant @davemilbourn48782]

My main man says that as far as he knows little documentation exists apart from that one photo, and he was less than polite about the aft cabin! He is, however, going to ask elsewhere. In my experience he's as good as his word.

DM

[Chris FellowsParticipant @chrisfellows72943]

Thanks Dave – it would look better if the rear cabin had a roof that was more level but I guess the aim was to echo the line of the coaming on the Huntress and so keep a family resemblance.

The front cabin is longer than that of the Huntress which seems a strange decision as it gives less room for the cockpit and rear cabin. Perhaps that is why it never went further than a prototype. The longer front cabin and smaller cockpit, without the rear cabin, would have made a nice river cruiser.

All part of the Fairey history though and very interesting.

I've also got my eyes on doing a Fisherman 27 motor sailor once I've honed my model building skills!

Chris

[Dave MilbournParticipant @davemilbourn48782]

This from my man:

"Nope. Just the one photo.

It has been suggested that they just copy the cabin top on the standard Huntress hull

There was some talk about the Huntress mould being modified to reduce the dead rise angle, but we're not sure exactly how I w they did it. It may go some way to explain why it wasn't a success."

Dave

[Dave MilbournParticipant @davemilbourn48782]

A further message:

"We may have a slightly better version of the photo via the Peter Twiss collection. Which one have you got? River cruiser only had 20hp so Taycol brushed motor and lead acid battery will suffice "

I've asked for a copy of the Peter Twiss version and will post it on here as well as forward it to Chris. 20hp? "Maid of Baltimore" has ten times that!

DM

 

Edited By Dave Milbourn on 31/12/2017 10:54:06

[Colin BishopModerator @colinbishop34627]

The provision of an aft cabin and the extension of the forward one were presumably needed to meet expectations of a river boat of that size for four berths plus cooking facilities and a toilrt compartment.

But I think the whole idea was misbegotten really. The Huntress was designed as a fast day boat with perhaps an occasional sleepover in a marina or other port facility. A river boat needs a fuller, deeper hull to provide adequate accommodation, headroom below and under berth storage.

My old Jaguar 25 was just over 24ft long, around the same length as the Huntress with a tad more extreme beam but a finer bow. The accommodation provided 5 berths at a pinch,a separate toilet, a hanging locker, galley area, decent headroom and a large cockpit. Photos below show how all this was crammed in using clever design. The dinette table converted to a double berth.

Colin

PS: It was such an efficient design that it had room for a Fairey in the galley as you can see….

Edited By Colin Bishop on 31/12/2017 11:18:11

[Chris FellowsParticipant @chrisfellows72943]

Dave – evidently tapered blocks were laid in the bottom of the mould to reduce the dead rise. Increasing the height of the hull sides would have been easy enough.

Initially I thought that the Huntress cabin had just been grafted on but saw that the front side window was longer. So to get the relative positions of the cabins and cockpit etc. I copied the photo, positioned vertical lines on them and then stretched the photo and lines to fit the hull. This confirmed that the front cabin was longer and I reckon the drawing looks about right.

When you post the photo we can see what folks think.

So that was the superstructure sorted but as I said the freeboard needed increasing. Looking again this morning I reckon it still needs increasing a little more, not too much, so am doing that.

Performance wise, yes I'm going to use a pretty small motor and not worry too much about building light! Not a boat for Harry methinks!

Colin – yes I agree that it was probably a little ill-considered. We had a Norman 20 with an outboard motor. No way with another 3 foot could you have incorporated an aft cabin, but they did and called it the Norman Conquest! Commonly their two cabin boats were longer at 25 foot plus which makes more sense.

Now if Fairey had had another go using the Huntsman 28 hull then that could have been a lovely cruiser.

Chris

Edited By Chris Fellows on 31/12/2017 12:37:10

[Dave MilbournParticipant @davemilbourn48782]

Chris

The main advantage of having such scant information on a prototype is that no-one is in a better position than you are to argue about such things. I'll post the photo as/when/if I get it.
Frankly the sight of what looks like a Huntress plodding around the pond at less than walking speed would remind me too much of the clods who built the 1/8 Huntsman 31 and then filled it with huge lead-acid batteries. I wish I had a quid for every time I've seen one of those down the years!

Dave M

[Colin BishopModerator @colinbishop34627]

I still think tht there is a basic design problem. A successful river cruiser really needs a displacement or semi displacement hull ( for estuary cruising) to get the required internal volume. Simply building up the sides of an existing design to get additional freeboard will almost certainly compromise the appearance of the vessel.

Instead of trying to mess around with the planing hull design, perhaps Fairey would have done better to come up with a more suitable hull onto which a modified version of the trademark Fairey cabin profile could have been added. After all, there are many really distinctive and attractive traditional river cruiser designs so it would have been possible. However a new hull would have been very expensive, especially if the market was speculative.

Chris, I had a look at the Norman Conquest and agree with you, a nice design compromised. Leisure boat builders are always under pressure to cram in more accommodation than the boat can really take as the number of berths are a main selling point even though it is unlikely that they will all be used the majority of the time.

My Jaguar had a nominal 5 berths but over the 8 years I had her we only carried 4 on one occasion, 2 adults & 2 children. A couple of times we had three aboard for an overnighter but otherwise it was just two of us.

Colin

[Chris FellowsParticipant @chrisfellows72943]

Posted by Dave Milbourn on 31/12/2017 13:06:25:

Chris

The main advantage of having such scant information on a prototype is that no-one is in a better position than you are to argue about such things. I'll post the photo as/when/if I get it.
Frankly the sight of what looks like a Huntress plodding around the pond at less than walking speed would remind me too much of the clods who built the 1/8 Huntsman 31 and then filled it with huge lead-acid batteries. I wish I had a quid for every time I've seen one of those down the years!

Dave M

Funnily enough my 1/8 Huntsman 31 had an alarm battery in it and it was too cumbersome just moving the boat around the house! I was going to try it on the water but took the battery down the tip. The rest of the installation is old and poor anyway so will all be replaced before it goes anywhere near water.

As regards the River Cruiser it's more about the building of it rather than using it much (like a lot of boats I suppose!) and I promise not to post any videos of it!

Colin – I sort of agree with what you are saying but because of the low speed of river cruising you can really use any hull design. The Norman 20 had limited sea going abilities but if fitted with a decent sized engine would plane well and was pretty roomy inside. Have to say though that when cruising down the river (not far from Evesham) I used to admire the lovely wooden displacement cruisers as they whispered past with barely any wash and their increased room and storage would certainly be welcomed on a longer cruise.

[Dave MilbournParticipant @davemilbourn48782]

Chris
Think brushless motors and LiPo packs for all Fairey boats, even the slower ones. You can't add lightness after the thing's built.
DM

[Paul TParticipant @pault84577]

Dave

I used lead acid batteries to power my 4ft huntsman but to reduce the weight within the hull I used a second hull to carry the batteries which was then towed by the huntsman.

Paul

Happy New Year

[Dave MilbournParticipant @davemilbourn48782]

Paul

Now why didn't I think of that? Genius!

DM

[Charles OatesParticipant @charlesoates31738]

Or, collect all the hydrogen from the lead acid batteries, feed it into a balloon tethered to the boat. Added lightness. Simple.

[harry smith 1Participant @harrysmith1]

Gee Chris you are a bit hard on me, I did have an Hellen fishing boat kit for a week, but, 4KG of lead for ballast was a bit hard on my old back !!!

Sold it to a club member.

Dave right about Lipo batteries and brushless for all Fairey boats.

It's just matching up the motor and battery for the speed you require.

You would be surprised at what they can handle.

My mate's Spearfish as a 3648-1450kv 1600watt 35mm on a 4S 5800mah.

GPS speed clocked a 37KPH !!!!

Harry

[Chris FellowsParticipant @chrisfellows72943]

Harry, you trying to say you aren't a bit of a speed merchant then!!

Yes, it's a Fairey but not the usual Fairey! But definitely going for brushless and Lipos but going to use a low kv one as not looking for high speed as it's a cruiser.

I'll get a nice shot of it on a river with just a trace of wash just for Dave. Maybe even have Barbie at the controls!

Chris

[Dave MilbournParticipant @davemilbourn48782]

Maybe even have Barbie at the controls!

O, goody. I just can't wait to see that, then. Perhaps you could paint it pink as well; who's going to say you're wrong?

DM

[Chris FellowsParticipant @chrisfellows72943]

Exactly, it's a black and white photograph!

Chris

[Dave MilbournParticipant @davemilbourn48782]

I dare you…

DM

[Author]

Posts