Hi all thanks to sammyk I can now fill in the faded/ missing parts to the stalwart plan no, 264 by David Mann. the motors I require are old models. the prop shaft driver is a jumbo550. looking on the web that was a graupner 540 with an extended body and higher torque than their 540 model. motor 2 is a decaperm geared at 2.75 : 1 with 2 stages of 3 : 1 reductions driving the rear axle. I foned mfa como for advice and to be honest he hadnt heard of DECAPERM !!! and could not help.a few model shops later and i was told 1 would cost £150. At that price I may as well use the july 2011 build, and use the graupner water jets. The idea of this project is a present for my old man and not an absolute scale project. The plan is close enough for me as I have many photos of scale detail to add to the basic design. could anyone please advise on the equivelent motors I could use and purchase new at reasonable cost? ( total reduction for the decaperm is 24 :1 and the original set up was all driven by 12v) sorrwas long winded but I needed to explain my situation and drive systems have many variables. thanks keith