New members to our hobby

[Dodgy Geezer 1Participant @dodgygeezer1]

Posted by Bob Wilson on 15/01/2016 13:42:51:

I don't feel it is worth worrying about myself. No-one is stopping any of us enjoying our own particular field of modelling. I attend the North West Model Shipwrights Society every month in Grimsargh, Lancs…

Perhaps the problem is just a South-East one? Or even just a London-based one?

[Bob WilsonParticipant @bobwilson59101]

No, I think it is the same all over! Although we have 41 members, only about 16 or so attend our monthly meetings. As far as models are concerned, it is a shadow of its former self of 20 years ago, when the room would be packed full of models, and membership was about 60! In my own field, (merchant ships), I am a lone modeller, and don't even know anyone else who builds them, but it is still an enjoyable day out! Museums seem to be getting rid of their nautical exhibits because the younger generation are simply not interested in much that hapenned before they were born!

Bob

[Bob WilsonParticipant @bobwilson59101]

Here is the January 2007 meeting. But those days are long-gone now!

Bob

[Dodgy Geezer 1Participant @dodgygeezer1]

I can't see any junior members in your 2007 meeting. Looks like the problem started before then. I suspect that you have to go back to the 1970s to find 15-year-olds interested in boat modelling. Which means that they'd be 55-60 now…

[Bob WilsonParticipant @bobwilson59101]

No junior members. Mainly retired. One brought his young son along once, and he made a point of looking bored stiff all day long. When asked what he thought about the meeting, the answer was "S' awright!" but without any great enthusiasm!

Bob

[Ray Wood 3Participant @raywood3]

Hi DG

Sounds like your describing me ! 60 last year, any form of radio controlled model was still like magic in the 70's Its been the same ever since for me been making a living with a computer since 1988 in the building trade that's why I need the workshop.

Ray

[Paul TParticipant @pault84577]

I suspect that you have to go back to the 1970s to find 15-year-olds interested in boat modelling. Which means that they'd be 55-60 now

Hi DG

I fall into this category but at 16 I was already into motorbikes and full size sailing dinghies, I was a lot younger when I became smitten by the model boat bug.

In my opinion youngsters have to eight or nine when they catch the model building bug and from that age there is a good chance the enthusiasm will stick.

The trouble is recreating the excitement and enthusiasm that was prevalent in the 60s and applying it in a more upto date form for todays youngsters.

Should we be reinventing our childhoods by building Huntsmen, Sea Queens and TIDs or should we embrace the future and build modern warships, super yachts and drones.

Paul

[Colin BishopModerator @colinbishop34627]

I don't think there is any mystery about it, the world has simply moved on, people have other things to do. When model boat R/C became affordable for the average modeller the model boating associations at the time were quite antagonistic towards it as it wasn't 'proper' model boating which involved running around lakes poling off free running yachts and sticking the pole in the middle of the pond and running hydroplanes round it attached with string. Not very many people do that now.

The fact is that there has been a massive reduction of interest in model boating over the last 30 years or so. If you take the overall readerships of the model boating magazines you are looking at maybe 10,000 people max including overseas readers and people to whom copies are passed on. The actual total may well be considerably less. On the forums there are certainly no more than around 150 regular posters and a lot of these don't appear to actually make models but use them as social chat rooms. The forums do of course have a number of 'lurkers' who never post. The magazine readers and forum members overlap to some extent and there are probably some model boaters who plough their own lonely furrow without recourse to either magazines or forums. My guess would be that in the whole of the UK there are probably no more than around 12,000 active model boat modellers. The UK population is around 65 million.

The fact is that there are no potential multitudes out there just waiting for their interest to be piqued. Kids grow up doing what other kids do. In the 50s and 60s it was often model making but one hobby gets overtaken by another, skateboarding, computer games and now social media to name just a few. Youngsters have lots of choices in how to spend their free time these days and only a few of them will embrace model boating no matter how hard you plug it. They will be far more likely to follow what their mates are doing than what people who are old enough to be their Grandads are suggesting. We are ancient mariners I'm afraid! Any youngster attending a large model show just sees a crowd of arthritic geriatrics, not exactly an incentive to take up the hobby is it? Over 30 isn't cool, let alone over 65!

Also, when you have more choices you don't always get wider participation, you just dilute what is there already. Back in the 60s TV programmes would attract audiences in the tens of millions. Now with all the extra channels available even the most popular programmes are hard pressed to achieve 5 million viewers and it is often much less.

At the moment model boating is benefiting from people retiring and resuming their old hobby and also ageing aeromodellers who want a quieter life. I think that in about 10 years or so time, nature will take its course and the numbers of participating model boaters will fall off a cliff – it's just demographics really!

As for the North/South balance, I think model boating has always been more popular in the North as a greater proportion of the population come from skilled trades and engineering. If you don't learn how to use tools and make things when you are a youngster it becomes harder to pick it up once your life revolves around office type jobs.

Cheers,

Colin

 

Edited By Colin Bishop, Website Editor on 15/01/2016 16:08:52

[Tony HadleyParticipant @tonyhadley]

Colin, must say that your comment about the hobby being biased towards the north in years gone is quite different to what I always thought. Perhaps it was the magazine, with offices based in the south, reported more on southern events, than northern events. Also more articles were presented for publication came from the south.

Another thought springs to mind factors – living accommodation, we are seeing a change from affordable houses for the 25 to 34 age group, they (generation rent) are moving into rented flats rather than a house with a garden and a shed. Some builders (one writes for model boats) do manage with this type of building facilities, but they are older and already interested in the hobby.

Can't help but think we (as model boaters) are doing ok. The worst sufferers seem to be model cars,the magazine Model Cars seems to have disappeared., although there are probably magazine about the rtr and remaining racing side of their hobby as against the building.

[neil hpParticipant @neilhp]

some years ago ( gave up doing it 18 years ago) I used to give classes at a local high school in model boat building, and it was always well attended with some "old boys" ( about the age I am now……6 months to retirement, lol) coming back year after year. But one year at start of term a new guy appeared. I gave my usual pep talk about choosing their model and what tools they needed for working at home. At this, the chap put his hand up to speak as though still at junior school and said "tools at home…….you didn't tell us we HAD to do homework". At this he turned and walked out, never to be seen again. So yes, Paul, you have to grab them and their interests young or you have no chance. lol

[Colin BishopModerator @colinbishop34627]

Good points Tony, the model boating scene down South was certainly busy back in the 70s and 80s but as MPBA Scale Secretary during some of that time it was evident to me that it was equally strong in the North although perhaps less publicised. Since then the South has faded considerably but there is still a strong set of clubs in the North and well attended shows.

Neil and Paul are right in saying that you have to catch them young but whether they will really stay caught these days with so many other (often easier) options as they grow older is more problematic.

Model making does require both time and patience, something which comes more easily to us oldies than youngsters.

Colin

[Dodgy Geezer 1Participant @dodgygeezer1]

Posted by Colin Bishop, Website Editor on 15/01/2016 20:07:34

:…………

Model making does require both time and patience, something which comes more easily to us oldies than youngsters.

Colin

Time and patience were always scarce commodities, even in our childhood. I don't think they are any less scarce nowadays – painting a Warhammer figure demands a lot of skilled manual work, and writing code demands concentration.

So there are kids out there doing the same sort of things as we did – they're just not doing it with model boats. Perhaps it was just a fashion. But it must have been quite a long-lived one – Victorian schoolchildren played a lot with boats, so the 'craze' lasted for the best part of 100 years…

[Colin BishopModerator @colinbishop34627]

Well, Victorian kids didn't have the options of playing with model planes, cars and probably working model trains either so it had to be boats really. I think that the second half of the 20th century simply saw an explosion of alternative ways of spending leisure time together with the money to pursue these alternatives, a trend that is continuing today. Model boating may be part of the picture, but a much smaller part than it used to be – see my comments on dilution above.

As has already been mentioned, I suspect there is also something of a downward spiral associated with water availability. It used to be normal to just go and sail your model on the nearest pond but now access is likely to be restricted, by the local council, angling society or people who don't like you frightening the ducks while they are slowly poisoning them by feeding them bread crusts. To keep a water available you really do need an organised model boating club to retain access rights. Use it or lose it was never a truer word than in this case.

Kids won't build model boats if they can only sail them in the bath. I don't sail mine very often as there is nowhere convenient nearby. Ashley says that his water at Bushy Park is not too far away for me but actually it is a 50 mile round trip!

Colin

[Dodgy Geezer 1Participant @dodgygeezer1]

Posted by Colin Bishop, Website Editor on 15/01/2016 22:19:14:

Well, Victorian kids didn't have the options of playing with model planes, cars and probably working model trains either so it had to be boats really.

Oooh! They had trains in abundance – Bassett-Lowke, for instance, was a late Victorian company. Model cars came out as soon as real ones did – in the meantime they had model carriages, soldiers and doll's houses. Meccano was just in the Victorian era. Stationary steam engines were a particular favourite, with puppets and model theatres. Flying devices like kites were around, and the hand-launched 'Spiralifère' helicopter that was a hit in France during the 1850s. And, of course, there were boats – usually pond yachts.

Parks in those days had a band-stand, and a pool. I think that you are right that the lack of local pools does have something to do with the decline. In particular, park ponds were very public – right where families walked and all the children played. The lakes we can sail on nowadays are often hidden away, so there are few passing people to get that initial exposure to the hobby…

[Colin BishopModerator @colinbishop34627]

DG, you are right of course but a number of the things you mention would have been well beyond the scope of the average child. Even when I grew up in the 50s anything with the Basset Lowke name had a stratospheric price tag and was only something that could be dreamed about or just lusted over in Gamages. Even Triang or Hornby prices meant that only very modest railway layouts could be afforded and a new engine would only come along at birthday time. However I did make a number of model boats from anything that came to hand, including a hardboard and dowel square rigger which worked well until the hull dissolved and a stab at a large yacht with a balsa frame covered with tissue which I gave up on after constantly putting my thumb through it.

Whichever way you argue it I think it is fair to say that model boating was a much larger part of the hobby spectrum in the past than it is today and I suspect that many of the visitors to your excellent websites are in fact older modellers reliving their youth.

Colin

[harry smith 1Participant @harrysmith1]

Hi All

Boat modelling will move into personal CNC machines and 3D printers which move with the times.

Magazines and hobby shops will change.

I am afraid that a number of good model boat plans will be lost with old school printing at the high price of postage (UK to Australia) .

The change in batteries from lead acid to gel cell, Nicads and into Lipo's is amazing.

The weight and size with the power output is what a lot of the past modellers dream off!!!

The brushless motor output is as good as if not better than IC motors.

The biggest thing is time and the cheap Chinese which is buying the world with cheap products.

BUT AT AGE 67 LIKE A NUMBER OF THE YOUNGER MODELLERS WE WILL LOVE MODEL BOATS TILL WE DIE!!!

[Paul TParticipant @pault84577]

Hi Colin & DG

As far as childhood expectations go the only thing that changes as time goes by is the technology of the products, children will always want the expensive toys that grownups play with whether they be Basset Lowke, Meccano, or 6 channel drones.

Colin is right about model boating being a much larger part of the hobby spectrum in the past than it is today and obviously Colin is probably far better placed than I am to see the 'bigger picture but I find that sailing a model boat always attracts a good natured crowd of very mixed ages and the youngsters are always keen to find out how the model works.

From my personal experience I find that youngsters are willing to learn about model building but lack the practical skills to undertake even the most basic of models, the problem here is that the parents also lack these skills and even if they had the ability they are simply to busy to become involved.

I believe that, for the model building hobby to continue there needs to be a bridge between the older generation who, as Colin says are the major exponents of our hobby and the younger generation who have the enthusiasm to learn.

Perhaps publishers should consider a magazine that educates in model building techniques,

Paul

[Colin BishopModerator @colinbishop34627]

Paul,

You are right that there needs to be a way of transferring skills although this is not always the case. When home computers first came out most people were self taught, as I was, largely from devouring the many specialist magazines on the subject. However, the magazines were meeting a need that already existed. People had bought their Sinclair Spectrums and Commodore 64s and there was a huge demand for information on how to use them. Remember all those magazines with pages and pages of code that you had to type in to your machine and if you missed out a comma or similar the program simply crashed! Exciting times!

There is currently no similar pressure to bring out magazines to serve an expanding and expectant modelling community and if there was, then these days then perhaps magazines would no longer be the right information medium. Unless there is a pretty firm expectation of a market no publisher is going to launch a new magazine on spec. However I think that the present magazines do cater well enough for the beginner, Glynn Guest's designs are very accessible while Dave Milbourn's current two parter on the Fairey Huntsman is aimed at those with a little more experience but still very clearly explained.

In fact, Paul Freshney recently received a letter asking why there were rarely any plans aimed at more experienced modellers being published. The answer of course is that there are very few people with the skills needed to produce advanced modelmaker plans which usually require taking original material such as shipbuilder plans and processing it into a modelmaking format as designers like Vic Smeed used to do so effectively. Jim Pottinger still produces excellent plans but they do not show model constructional detail as such. And he is well beyond retirement age now with no obvious replacement in sight. Dave Metcalf used to be a prolific producer of modelmaking plans but has not done so for a number of years now and has recently retired himself.

Colin

[Paul TParticipant @pault84577]

Hi Colin

I agree that skills must be transferred and although I remember the days of the Commodore 64 I don't exactly see the relevance of learning redundant computer programming and transferable model building skills.

I agree that the magazine caters for the beginner with some very well draw plans but I also think that the plan subjects are old fashioned and might only appeal to readers of a certain age.

Paul

[Colin BishopModerator @colinbishop34627]

Paul,

Not sure what you mean about redundant computer programming, there were various languages to be explored, each with their advantages and disadvantages and it was unclear at the time which would be likely to come out on top. I learnt enough to make a living out of it for several years and never actually gave up program developing entirely before retirement.

As far as more modern subjects for plans are concerned, I'm sure that Paul F would be receptive to you submitting something akin to Glynn's simple construction but of a more up to date prototype. But be aware that while Glynn's designs look and are simple to make, quite a lot of effort goes into making them that way including testing etc.

You may also find that attractive modern subjects can be quite difficult to model in a simple way because the originals are actually moulded, Sunseeker motor yachts for example. Glynn picks his subjects with care!

Colin

[Paul TParticipant @pault84577]

Hi Colin

I appreciate that Glynn picks his subjects very carefully and his drawings / instructions are clear and very easy to follow, I also understand how difficult it can be to make plans easy to follow but this isn't my point. I feel that more contemporary subjects might appeal to a greater audience and could attract newcomers to the hobby. I hasten to add that this is purely a personal opinion and in no way intended to undermine or call into question the excellent work being done by Paul F and his existing team.

I also agree that many modern boats are moulded but with a little thought by the draftsman there is no reason why some of less complex subjects couldn't be modelled using basic construction methods.

Paul

[Colin BishopModerator @colinbishop34627]

So what are you waiting for then?

Colin

[Dave MilbournParticipant @davemilbourn48782]

Yeah – come on, Doc! If I can do it then it should be a walk in the park for you!!

Here's a little inspiration for you **LINK**

or maybe this one **LINK**

No mouldings allowed; only sheet, strip and block materials permitted.

DM

[Paul TParticipant @pault84577]

Hi Colin

Thank you for your confidence in my drawing skills but I will carry on listening to what other members think before doing anything radical.

Paul

[Tony HadleyParticipant @tonyhadley]

Paul,

Here is my suggestion for a plan. Away from Dave's high speed (& expensive) stuff, a model makers plan of Daniel Adamson, the Manchester Ship canal steam tug-tender currently undergoing a re-build at Cammell Laird, after a lottery grant.

If possible the plan (or a model) could be released at the same time as the vessel goes back into service.

**LINK**

[Author]

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