Comtesse Sailing Yacht by Krick Ro-Marin.

[Chris Stevenson 2Participant @chrisstevenson2]

Thanks Richard, I can understand your system. The Comtesse keel is all in one moulding and the horizontal wing keel is an extra which I can’t see any way of safely fixing it without creating at least one hole in the moulding. I was hoping to avoid that if possible but will see if any other suggestions are forthcoming. C

[Ray Wood 3Participant @raywood3]

Hi Chris,

You really need to contact George AKA Gecon, he has fixed the wing on his fin keel a while back as the photo.

Maybe also worth looking in his photo album ??

Send him a PM to get in touch

Regards Ray

[Chris Stevenson 2Participant @chrisstevenson2]

Thanks Ray, I will contact him. I have been through all of the photos on the net I could find without being able to see how it should be fixed. I was hoping he would pop up on this thread and may still do so. There are no instructions provided with the wing which I bought from Leeds Model Shop. It was the only one I could find.

cheers,

Chris

[Ray Wood 3Participant @raywood3]

Hi Chris,

George maybe away, he lives in Norway, I would have thought a mechanical fixing like a stainless bolt or at a pinch Stablit Express will stick most materials to the plastic fin, It's evil 2 part stuff but sticks like the proverbial

Regards Ray

[Chris Stevenson 2Participant @chrisstevenson2]

Thanks Ray and Richard for your responses. I think I am going to fix some 4mm studding in the boat keel and hold it in place with small nuts underneath which won’t affect performance but will hold it secure. I can make sure the holes where the studding protrudes are watertight. Cheers, Chris.

[Chris Stevenson 2Participant @chrisstevenson2]

Thanks Ray and Richard for your responses. I think I am going to fix some 4mm studding in the boat keel and hold it in place with small nuts underneath which won’t affect performance but will hold it secure. I can make sure the holes where the studding protrudes are watertight. Cheers, Chris.

[geconParticipant @gecon]

Hello Chris,

Just in case it's of interest and to the best of my recollection…….

First I poured some epoxy resin into the formed keel and started filling with Krick's own tiny iron shot. These iron balls are about 1mm dia so they actually pour like thick soup! You have to go easy on the epoxy resin so things don't heat up too much when curing. When the keel was about half filled with resin coated ballast and I set it aside to start cureing.

I drilled two 4.8mm holes in the the wing keel. One hole very near forward end of the thickest area. The second hole about half way along the length of th wing keel. Countersink the holes to allow the retaining bolts to fit flush with the wing keel.

I placed the wing keel in position on the formed ABS keel and drilled that (4.8mm) through the keel holes and into the bottom of th ABS keel AND into the ballast in the keel (5mm is probably OK too!). The resin was still not fully cured so the drill sort of 'pushed it aside' inside the keel. A bit more work if it's already hard-cured before drilling.

With the hull upside down, I poured some epoxy into the holes in the ABS keel screwed in 5mm (cheese head?) bolts. These sit flush with the underside of the keel. I probably roughed the contact surfaces and applied some epoxy before putting the wing keel in place…but I don't remember actually doing it!

I'll try to publish a photo of the bolts I used. 30mm x 5mm countersunk head. (cheese head?)

If you use studs and nuts as you memtioned, it will of course not make any difference to the performance. Just make sure that they cannot come out again!

Hope my response does not come too late. As Ray suggested I have 'been away' but not physically -just doing other things- as I needed a break from my Colin Archer project AND from reading forum posts every day!

George

 

 

Edited By gecon on 11/10/2021 18:01:10

Edited By gecon on 11/10/2021 18:07:47

[Chris Stevenson 2Participant @chrisstevenson2]

Hi George,

Very many thanks for such a comprehensive reply. It is not too late, I am a slow builder as I have Parkinson’s and am not able to be in the workshop on some days. I have already ordered the small weights which should arrive soon. I have the screws already in stock as I have been an aero modeller for some years. So, I will let you know how it goes.

I had already picked up several tips from your photos and text but I am sure there will be others if I may use your experiences I will keep in touch. This is my first sail boat build and only my second boat so it’s a learning curve but one I am enjoying as a change from “flying” models!
kindest regards,

Chris

[geconParticipant @gecon]

I too have built all sorts of R/C aircraft from KK Mini-Super in about 1964 to 5m sailplanes. After a 10-year break I bought a Krick Comtesse. and tried to make it look like a Bavaria 37 Cruiser.

After a re-think last night it may be that I used longer bolts than 30mm. Maybe up to 45/50mm

You could also try epoxying on the wing keel after drilling the holes in it but BEFORE filling the ABS keel with ballast. The centreline of the wing keel should be parallel to the waterline of the yacht of course.

Drill the ABS keel a bit smaller than the bolt diameter so you can make a thread in the ABS when you screw in the keel bolts. Epoxy on the wing keel and scew the bolts into the base of the ABS keel. Make sure it's all at right angles to the ABS finn keel and parallel to the waterline of the yacht.

When the epoxy has cured, the wing keel will be attached to the ABS keel. You can then turn the Yacht the right way up and fill the keel with ballast and some epoxy until the bolts inside the fin keel are more or less 'submerged' in ballast and epoxy resin.

Then pour in the ballast to a depth of about 2cm and then pour in some resin and let it soak down into the ballast.' and around the bolts. You can wait until this cures and/or cools down if you like. I don't remember having any trouble with excess heat. You can allways dip the keel in cold water if you think it gets too warm. You don't need to have epoxy on all the rest of the ballast in the keel. but you do have to seal it off when you've added the required amount. Remember that you need LESS ballast when you used the wing keel.

The important thing is that the ballast is sealed off at the top. I think I used epoxy filler for that job. Filler does not soak down through the ballast so you can make a seal with it.

I'm having a break from my Colin Archer build to produce a small N-scale train layout around the base of this year's Xmas tree. I only 'look in' here about once every couple of weeks. I will however check in next weekend just in case you have other questions.

Good luck with the build,

George

[Chris Stevenson 2Participant @chrisstevenson2]

I now have the winged keel attachment drilled and c/ sunk and bought 4 5mm c/sk bolts as shown by George.. I went for 40 mil length as that was only length in my very useful and local hardware shop. I am lining it all up and next job is two neat 4 mm holes in the boat keel. I practised with a bit of discarded hull and the 5 mm bolts cut a decent thread in a 4mm hole. My son in law is coming on Sunday and I shall borrow his steady and experienced hands to help drill 2 accurate holes.

The supply of the Krick ballast balls has been hit (Brexit?). Only one supplier in the UK had a pack in store, or their records showed they did but they cannot find it!

Alternatives are being sought, I have lead flashing and old lead pipe available but not keen to use unless last resort. I have a busy weekend as it’s my birthday and family descending!

Further updates to follow.

Chris.

[Stuart Z 1Participant @stuartz1]

Chris

Regarding bolts and screws etc I use Westfield Fasteners.

Any shape or size with quick delivery. Worth a look perhaps?

S

[Stuart Z 1Participant @stuartz1]

Chris

Regarding bolts and screws etc I use Westfield Fasteners.

Any shape or size with quick delivery. Worth a look perhaps?

S

[geconParticipant @gecon]

Hello again Chris,

You might be able to use stick-on zinc weights as used to ballance alloy wheels. Maybe Halfords sell them? Not sure if you can get enough of them stuffed down the keel though. When using the wing keel I think you only need 1kg of further ballast.

George

[Chris Stevenson 2Participant @chrisstevenson2]

Hello George,

Holes now drilled in wing keel and c/sunk to take the 5 mm screws. Spent ages getting it all lined up and my son-in-law law duly arrived Sunday and helped me drill the holes in the boat keel. Thread created and all screwed together with plenty of thread inside to glue. Have sourced some weights on e bay and due Thursday.
Not sure which epoxy to use to secure the screws and put a small fillet around the joint outside. I have quick and slow epoxy, finishing epoxy resin, deluxe materials “Fusion” and Sabilit Express available. I see you mention P38 filler. Is that the standard car stuff?

sorry to be a pain but am trying to get it right first time!!

Chris

[Richard SimpsonParticipant @richardsimpson88330]

I know as far as Araldite goes that the 'Rapid' version is not as water resistant as the slow cure version. Whether this is relevant for a model boat and the amount of time it spends in the water I couldn't say. Also of course a good coat of paint over it should protect it even more.

I use the slow because I would far rather have the time to position things perfectly without the additional pressure of having to do it in five minutes!

P38 is a 'David's' product, which is used in the car body market and also referred to as 'Isopon'. They also do a fibreglass pouring resin, also sometimes under the Isopon name but usually referred to as Fastglass Resin, that uses the same pink hardening agent as the Isopon paste. If you are in the UK Halfords is a good starting point.

They also do a P40 filling paste, which is specifically for fibreglass filling repairs.

The trouble with p38 is that you have to buy a pretty big tin and if you only have a very small job to do it can be uneconomical. For securing a couple of screws, as I have done many times I would use a slow cure araldite or equivalent and simply smooth the excess to a fillet with a suitable tool. Bear in mind that as the slow cure type takes a long time to cure it will 'settle' by gravity by quite a bit.

[Chris Stevenson 2Participant @chrisstevenson2]

Thanks everyone for your advice. I am about to start the permanent fixing and gluing of the internal ply supports. The main one states that it must be fixed so the mast is vertical. The mast foot which you can slot into it through the top deck to test this is 5mm ID and 6 mm OD. So I find the pin which later goes into the mast leaving 14 mm showing. That pin is 4 mm OD so is not a tight fit in the mast foot and very loose. Is that how it should be?

One further point, how do I decide when the mast is vertical? Side to side is no problem but what about fore and aft, how do I measure please?

Sorry to be a pain but being a measure 3 times, glue once sort of modeller and new to sailing model boats I would prefer to get it right first time.

Many thanks,

Chris

[geconParticipant @gecon]

Hello Chris, I decided to look in to see if there was anything from you regarding the Comtesse. I'm not usually here at 3 am!

I did not mention P38 as such, because it's not sold here in Norway. The epoxy filler I used is however sold by the the equivalent of 'Halfords' so I suppose it's the same stuff. I only used it for topping off /sealing the top surface of the iron shot in the keel. Inside the keel I used epoxy resin, which of course flows into all the small spaces in the keel.

If you still have access to the 'keel bolts' you can add a washer and or nyloc nut. If not, I would think that Stabilit Express is best for securing metal to ABS. I agree with Richard that 24 hour Araldite is better than the 'rapid' version. The 24hr type will also flow (very slowly) around inside the base of the keel and penetrate better than the rapid type.

Stabilit is probably recommended in the kit because it's a german product. I used Stabilit to secure the internal woodwork the the ABS hull.

I can't remember the detail around the mast foot but I do remember having to 'think' about something. I have a buisy day tody…wednesday… but I'll try to find the oringinal instructions -in LATE afternoon- for my Comtesse and see if I have written any comments in the building instructions. It may be that it's the wire standing rigging which eventually determines the rake and position of the mast. Sorry, but can't remember that detail and the yacht is not in the flat, it's in the dungeons of my cellar store room.

You need to refer to the yacht's waterline to decide on where 'vertical' is. I THINK there is some adjustment available via the standing rigging at a later stage.

Get back to you asap.

George

[Chris Stevenson 2Participant @chrisstevenson2]

Hi George and good morning. Many thanks for info.I have put some Stabilit Express around the bolts and will add a bit more later. The weights have not arrived yet but have been experimenting with some finishing resin by Zap and will know in the morning if it has worked. It flows nicely and should be ok. I think it is very similar to aeropoxy by De- Luxe materials.

I have a busy day tomorrow so no rush with checking on the mast fitting but your help greatly appreciated..What time I do get on the boat I will be starting the assembly of the servo mounts and get that assembled and sealed..

Best wishes,

Chris

[geconParticipant @gecon]

Hi, so you too were burning the midnight oil! I rolled down to the cellar and found the instructions.

To help decide on where 'vertical' is, refer to page 9 top right. Place the yacht in the stand with the bow 33cm above the table. I had some rubber/foam cushioning on the stand to protect hull. The thickness of this foam when compressed by the yacht weight, needs to be ADDED to the 33cm. I think I added about 1cm in addition to the waterline mark because all my models seem to be heavier than design weight.

You don't however NEED to mark on the waterline just now if you don't want to but it's best to do it now so you can spray or paint it with hull upside-down.

Anyway, with the hull on the cradle and the bow at 33cm + a bit? the yacht centreline should be level with the table top and therefore at the correct level for mast alignment. If you look at one of my photos you can see that MY waterline mark/ is visible a bit up the transom. This I think is a bit higher than the intended design mark.

Indeed the 4mm pin is a loose fit in the 5mm deck tube. If you refer to the instructions -top right page of 14- you will see the reference to aligning the mast in all directions EACH time you fit and adjust a shroud. I seem to remember that that the mast was 'falling all over the place' while I was doing this. A helper to steady the mast during the process would be a good.

Have to go now, I'll look in later today

George

[Chris Stevenson 2Participant @chrisstevenson2]

Hi George,

You are a star! Very many thanks for pointing out what I could have seen for myself. I have read the instructions so many times I think I may have word blindness! I now recall that when fixing the keel I did that measure to check the alignment of the wing keel. Knowing that the mast pin is not a tight fit in the mast foot is very reassuring.

I have checked the tests I left curing overnight and the Stabilit glue on the screws inside the hull and all nicely set. The test of the Zap resin has also been successful so all I need now are the weights and I can press on.
I am extremely grateful for you taking the time and trouble to assist. I shall try not to bother you again but can’t promise

with kind regards, Chris.

[geconParticipant @gecon]

No bother Chris, but recently I've not been much on the Forum (did I hear twenty voices ay "thank goodness"?)

It won't be long before I restart work on the Colin Archer and while posting on the build, will obviously notice if you have further questions.

I'll look in every couple of days or so -in case I can help with something else. It's worth making an effort to get the Comtesse right. The yacht sails very gracefully -even in aparently no-wind!

Are you fitting a motor? I had problems aligning the shaft and motor and found the the supplied brass coupling was out of true. Krick sent me a new one from Germany but I had already fitted a u/j joint from CMB in Cornwall. I recommend using a u/j and not the straight (or not straight!) brass coupling.

Regards,

George

[Chris Stevenson 2Participant @chrisstevenson2]

Hi George,

Weights arrived this afternoon so it is all systems go. Progress will be quite slow as I have a busy time in the next few weeks with”grandparent “ duties and other commitments. I will up date you as and when.

I have decided not to use power but rely on my currently non existent model sailing knowledge.

Many thanks again for your help, will be in touch and look forward to your progress on the Colin Archer.

Kind regards, Chris

[Chris Stevenson 2Participant @chrisstevenson2]

Hi George and other forum helpers.

Thought I had better give you an update! Back in the workshop after a spell of grand parenting duties I am pleased to report good progress on my Comtesse. The keel weights are all fitted and glued, inner ply work in position, steering servo and linkage installed. Yesterday afternoon I finished preparing mast and booms. The drilling of accurate holes of 2 or 2.5 mm holes in shaped aluminium proved a challenge with my Parkinson’s and one hand minus three fingers from an injury aged 2 years. I have a dremel on a stand but needed more to hold the mast etc. a trip to Screwfix identified a pin vice made by Magnusson as best addition so I invested £19.99. Then to Tool station to buy packages of ten 8mm bolts, nuts and washers. They do them in10’s, Screwfix wanted me to buy 100!

it proved ideal. I lined the jaws with balsa to avoid damaging the Ali and I was able to drill and file all of the holes and a recess. All the required fitt8ngs are in place so next job is the sails. This may require the lady off the house to assist!
I do have one question, Which sail servo would be best? This is all new territory to me.

I will add some pics later.

[Richard SimpsonParticipant @richardsimpson88330]

I have to say Chris that with you having Parkinson's and three fingers missing from your hand yet you still choose modelling as a hobby I have a huge amount of admiration for your creativity and tenacity. All credit to you.

I must admit there are probably a very high percentage of the generations younger than us who could not drill a neat hole in anything with all their facilities intact!

[geconParticipant @gecon]

Hi Chris, good to read that you are still hard at it (so to speak!) in spite of your physical challenges.

There is of course not space to use a cheap-ish swing arm solution as a sail winch. I happended to use the recommended servo from Krick. You can usually get them from Cornwall Model Boats.

Hi-Tec also produce a winch servo which is probably OK, cheaper than Krick and probably easier to find. I think the Hi-Tec only does 4 turns end-to-end as apposed to 6 turns from the German winches. You don't need the full 6 turns rotation for the Comtessa sail control anyway.

I have several Graupner nr.5217 winches in the Fisher which are exactly the same spec. as the recommended Krick sailwinch for the Comtesse -but more expensive. I am sure that there is no other difference between the Graupner and Krick.

George

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