Steering with twin screws

[ArneSParticipant @arnes]

Apologies if this is in the wrong section but it was the closest I could find.

My next model has twin independent screws but no rudder(s).  It could be sailed with two separate ESC and operated by either;

1) using two throttle sticks operated in tracklaying vehicle fashion

2) electronic mixing of rudder and throttle stick to give steering and propulsion.

 

I know the principles behind the two methods. Could anyone with experience of both methods comment on their relative merits?

 

ArneS

[ArneSParticipant @arnes]

[Colin BishopModerator @colinbishop34627]

The “Tank” steering method with one motor on each stick will obviously be a option but the latest mixer method using something like the ACTion ranege http://www.action-electronics.co.uk/mixers.php might be best. If you give Dave Milbourn at ACTion a ring he will be pleased to give some very practical advice.

 

Colin

[PierreParticipant @pierre]

I used “Tank Steering” on a pusher tug which made it extremely manoeuvrable. I have a JR 6 channel transmitter, 40 Mhz, which was originally designed for aircraft. Careful reading of the manual produced an option called “Delta Wing” which exactly simulates Tank Steering without the use of extra mixers. Full ahead or astern used both motors, left/right on the right stick progressively slowed/stopped/reversed the relevant motor.

 I eventually disabled this option and installed rudders as when towing something heavy one effectively lost the power of one motor when trying to turn!

Cheers – Pierre

[ArneSParticipant @arnes]

Thank you Colin and Pierre,

With only two responses I guess that this is an area of modelling in which few have experimented.

Buying a mixer would be extravagant as my transmitter aready has this function.

I guess the only thing to do is try both methods and see which is most comfortable. 

Thanks again, ArneS

[DuckyParticipant @ducky]

 Hi ArneS

My wife has been sailing her Wyeforce Tug with two props and two ESC’s for the last two years and she doesn’t use the rudder much and the boat can turn in its own length ! The turning wasn’t very good when I first built the boat and only used one ESC for both motors,but after she complained I fitted the second ESC and you wouldn’t believe the differance. Her indoors is happy as well so can’t be bad, she also has a rescue service attachment for the tug to save getting the main rescue boat out

 

See my Album for tug picture.

 

Ducky

 

[ArneSParticipant @arnes]

Alas Mr “Ducky”

Your post does not help me with my query as to the pros and cons of using twin independent screws with either two throttle sticks or rudder/throttle mixing.

Your pictures are nice nevertheless

ArneS

[Dave MilbournParticipant @davemilbourn48782]

Please try this link:

 

http://www.action-electronics.co.uk/pdfs/Twins%20Ver2.pdf
 

 

I think it may answer most of your questions. If you choose the last unit mentioned (P94) then you can set it to do either “tank steering” or rudder/motor mix, so you could choose which you prefer simply by flicking two small DIL switches.

 

It works for many folk (300+ sold already), but suit yourself – it’s a wide world.

 

DM

[ArneSParticipant @arnes]

Mr Milbourn,

Thank you for your response to my enquiry Edited by Moderator ArneS

[Paul TParticipant @pault84577]

Hi Dave

 

I have just spent a very happy hour wandering through your website and adding item after item to my “wishlist” its a shame that I have limited funds and have to recycle my motors and escs as I would be very happy to spend £100s with you.

 

Do you manufacture a V8 petrol engine sound generator as I would love to fit one into my barrel back speedboat. (I am looking for the V8 roar with the underwater exhaust sound)

 

Was it your goodself that I had a long chat with at Birchwood last year?

 

Paul

 

 

[Bob Abell 2Participant @bobabell2]

Hello Paul

 

The chap in our club has managed to fit a nice sound generator to his Brushless motor powered Aqua Riva………….and it has a nice effect

 

Bob

[DuckyParticipant @ducky]

 Hi Paul

 

The sound generator that Bob has just mentioned is a V8 engine that you wanted I will ask the chap thats got it,whats the make and get back to you.

 

Will look out for you at Ellesmere !

 

Ducky

[Paul TParticipant @pault84577]

Hello Bob & Ducky

 

Thanks for telling me about your chum with the sound unit and I hope that he is able to tell you what the unit is.

Meanwhile I hope to stumble across some on line friends at Ellesmere.

 

Paul

[DuckyParticipant @ducky]

 Hi Paul

 

Got an answer for you on the V8 engine sound,

 

 “The sound unit is an Admiralty Electronics from Westbourne Model Supplies.” and the chap with the motor launch I mentioned says ;

“We might see you at Ellesmere” his name is Graham and if I see him there I will bring him over to speak to you Paul.

Graham is a Master Builder from the Sandbach area and a member of our club, his “LILY” a Windermere Steamer is something to see.

 

Will be looking out for you and Bob the Builder

 

Ducky

[Bob Abell 2Participant @bobabell2]

Hey  Duckie
An idea……..I wonder if Graham fancies giving a talk to Paul`s Model Boat Club, afterall, Graham has put a lot of work into his presentation?

 

Worth a thought?

 

Bob

[ArneSParticipant @arnes]

Returning this thread to its original topic.

I have tried the model out using mixed and track-laying types of control.  Both seem unusual at first, after a few minutes it felt easier.

Not a lot to choose between these methods of control.  Sailing around the lake with the mixed throttles may be easier.  The two throttle stick method feels better when trying to sail a complex course at slow speed.

Has anyone else had this experience?

Edited by Moderator

 

ArneS

[Colin BishopModerator @colinbishop34627]

I have tried to get the best of both worlds with my present model which uses a Futaba 6EXA Tx/Rx. combination.

 

I have used the toggle switchon the TX which is intended for or lowering and raising the undercarriage on a plane to trigger a switch attached to the corresponding receiver channel which is used to switch the speed controller outputs between being on one channel or separate ones.

 

This means that when sailing around the pond both controllers are on one stick but when get to a complex bit I can simply flick the switch to go into tank steering mode. The model isn’t finished but it works OK in the bath anyway!

 

Colin

[ArneSParticipant @arnes]

What a great idea Colin!

It sounds like the perfect solution to easy sailing but still having that extra steering when needed.

Not sure how you would switch from having both controllers on one channel to having them on two channels.  Do you physically switch the signal lead from receiver output to the other or is it done by using a computer transmitter?

Thanks, ArneS

[Colin BishopModerator @colinbishop34627]

ArneS,

 

I have put up an Album showing how it is done. If you have any questions just ask.

 

Colin

[ArneSParticipant @arnes]

Thank you Colin,

Your post explains it perfectly. I would have worried about the monentary loss of signal to the speed controllers whilst switching over but perhaps it is no worse than the occasional “glich”.

This is what a hobby forum is all about.

ArneS

[Paul TParticipant @pault84577]

To blow Daves trumpet this link is well worth looking at

http://www.modelboatmayhem.co.uk/Common/Electrics/Twin_motors.htm

 

Sorry its MBM but needs must.

 

Paul

[PierreParticipant @pierre]

May I also thank Colin – that circuit is a gem! Gone straight into my “Really, really useful” folder.

Pierre

[ArneSParticipant @arnes]

Mr Fat Controller,

Edited by Moderator I prefer Colins solution.

ArneS

[Colin BishopModerator @colinbishop34627]

Topic cleaned up.

 

Gentlemen,

 

I had hoped that the tit for tat exchanges would have ceased but clearly some of you were determined to continue. They do not reflect well on the Forum and so I have deleted all irrelevant posts and edited a few more. If you wish to continue the argument then please do so by personal message. All further posts on this thread should be constructive and on topic.

 

Thank you.

 

Colin

[Colin BishopModerator @colinbishop34627]

Subsequent irrelevant posts have also been deleted as I promised. I have sent ArneS a personal message concerning his postings.

 

Future postings not relevant to the subject matter or which contain personal or offensive comments by any member will in future be deleted without any further discussion.

 

Colin

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