BLACK ROSE

[redpmgParticipant @redpmg]

Hi Tim ,

good to hear the site is being made use of – its what it was intended for . originator DG will be pleased . Double sized a Terrier – but changed a couple of things so it looked a bit more like the original Vosper .Went well enough – but the 50+ ones are a pleasure and well thought out .

Edited By redpmg on 30/03/2020 12:45:27

[Tim CooperParticipant @timcooper90034]

Redmpg

I have just started the OSA 1, making templates from the plans. Then if we (70+) are inside even longer I may start the Sea Princess or Fire Tender. I did buy some sheet materials from Cornwell Model Boats before the lockdown. They are still open as they are mail order only.

Tim

[redpmgParticipant @redpmg]

Hi Tim

have just had our 2nd casualty in SA – 74 year old – am the same age but normally pretty much a recluse anyway – (not as bad as Howard Hughes) – so sitting tight. – wont venture out at all for at least 14 days

Had a plan of the OSA from one of the US designers (well known – memory fails) but very complicated as its all on one sheet – so very difficult to read . DG did a good job on the 50+ version – looks great so a good choice .

Sea Princess would make a great 2nd choice too – seem to be a lot of Fireboats around of many makes when there were ever only two originals – seems strange to me !

Sad story about Harry Duncan who designed the Black Rose – migrated to Thailand ? and passed away shortly thereafter………..

[Jay Harris 1Participant @jayharris1]

Posted by Brian Muir on 30/03/2020 06:56:05:

In my experience,free plans are not very good, good luck in finding one that will suit you. The first model I built was the Gwen M and a choose it because the hull was made up of four section, not individual planks. Have you thought of having a go at a free plan model given away with the MB magazines? They don't often have sailing boats, but there are some very nice models.

Hey Brian, I am going to look up the Gwen M and see if I can find it, also I do not yet have a subscription to the magazines because I am unsure how deep I am going to get into this, but I was unaware they gave away free plans, I may have to dig into that. Thanks for your help!

[Jay Harris 1Participant @jayharris1]

Posted by redpmg on 30/03/2020 12:15:55:

If you check the Eezebilt website (through Google) there is a set of plans for the Black Rose and possibly a build article . May be a more simplified version – but the down load is free – so worth checking out . There are a lot of plans also on the Old Boats website which might also suit for free. If you cant find PM me and will forward the address.

This is an awesome resource, I am loving it! I did get the BR plans and I am going to keep them until I feel a bit more confident in my skills! but there are a ton of things there for me to check out, appreciate the link!

[Jay Harris 1Participant @jayharris1]

Hey Brian,

Do you remember what size and thickness of wood you used in your BR construction?

[Brian MuirParticipant @brianmuir84327]

I haven't built a BR Jay.

[Jay Harris 1Participant @jayharris1]

You didnt build the Black Rose? (or does BR mean something else that I dont know about?)

[Brian MuirParticipant @brianmuir84327]

Hi Jay, sorry I thought you meant something else! I used 3mm flexiply for the planking, ordinary 3mm ply for the decks and 8mm for the frames and 10mm for the keel. To make sure its waterproof I usually paint a layer of epoxy resin inside the hull, then sand and paint the outside.

[Jay Harris 1Participant @jayharris1]

This is exactly what I was looking for! thanks! Now the hard work… given my location all of the hobby stores are closed, with only a few craft stores open, so now begins the difficult task of trying to figure out where to source the materials… I have decided that i am going to build a much easier boat to start, but I want to start on cutting the bits for the Rose and using it as a motivator to learn more! again, thank you!

[Jay Harris 1Participant @jayharris1]

Well I am deep in it now… wood is here, most of the bulkheads are cut… going to cut the keel and start putting this thing together soon, thank you all for your help! Now to learn about motors and controllers and shafts and props and all that stuff….. Yes, I intend to put a small prop and motor in it so that I can take it to local ponds and slowly putter around any advice there would be greatly appreciated since this is my first build ever

[Chris FellowsParticipant @chrisfellows72943]

Well you didn't pick the easiest model for your first build! Good challenge though and will keep an eye on progress. I'm going to do my first planked hull in the not too distant future.

Chris

[Brian MuirParticipant @brianmuir84327]

Hi Jay, well done on getting started. This model is not as difficult as you might think. The designer cleverly lays out the shape of each individual plank, so it is much easier than an ordinary planking process of shaping and bending. I put radio controlled steering in, it was a bit tight for a motor, but the main problem was the shaft. It had to go through the keel or if it went out through the stern, the rudder had to be cut away to make room for the prop. As the rudder is quite small this affected the steering. You could enlarge the rudder for on the water, and have a smaller one for display? You also need a lead strip on the keel as ballast. I enjoyed building this model, all of the usual warnings about keeping the frames staight and symmetrical around the centre line apply, and keep that up with the upper decks. Remember to decorate and paint the inside of the stern cabin, before you fit it, maybe put a lantern in there? Finally, have lots of fun making all the deck fittings, cannon, anchors and ships boats. Enjoy!

[Jay Harris 1Participant @jayharris1]

Thanks for the input Brian! and yes, I noticed in your build that the interior of the cabin needed some love, so I decided to see if I was any good at building tiny furniture…

[Jay Harris 1Participant @jayharris1]

hey Brian,

on the keel doublers, did you sand those down between bulk head 11 and 14 in order to get the first plank to lay flat against the keep in that section?

Posted by Brian Muir on 10/04/2020 20:36:03:

Hi Jay, well done on getting started. This model is not as difficult as you might think. The designer cleverly lays out the shape of each individual plank, so it is much easier than an ordinary planking process of shaping and bending. I put radio controlled steering in, it was a bit tight for a motor, but the main problem was the shaft. It had to go through the keel or if it went out through the stern, the rudder had to be cut away to make room for the prop. As the rudder is quite small this affected the steering. You could enlarge the rudder for on the water, and have a smaller one for display? You also need a lead strip on the keel as ballast. I enjoyed building this model, all of the usual warnings about keeping the frames staight and symmetrical around the centre line apply, and keep that up with the upper decks. Remember to decorate and paint the inside of the stern cabin, before you fit it, maybe put a lantern in there? Finally, have lots of fun making all the deck fittings, cannon, anchors and ships boats. Enjoy!

[Brian MuirParticipant @brianmuir84327]

Yes, on the plans you can see the slight flattening of each section to take the plank, you also have to sand the edge to allow it to angle back towards the stern too.

[jenson olmsteadParticipant @jensonolmstead16973]

New member here from the US. Ive just decided to take on this model after 2 decades of dreaming about having my own model tall ship to sail remote. I dont have any wood ship experience but ive been a plastic model and rail model guy since i was a young kid so scratch build experience isnt nil. I have probably complicated it a bit more though by using scrap i have laying around the house. Im a bit cheap but i also cant afford some of these larger wood kits so im making do with what i have.

Here is step 1 below the completed keel. The keel and bulkheads and maybe some other parts are being cut from a sheet of pressed paperboard. It happened to be 5mm thick so i doubled it up to get the keel 10mm. My goal with this model is partly just experience but also a down and dirty fun sailor for my backyard pond so im not concerned with how spec or scale it is and i know this material is far from the best stuff for a model intended to go in water but i also plan on epoxy sealing the hull in and out. Oh i also wanted it a bit larger so i had the printer scale up the plans to 130% or so they said.

[jenson olmsteadParticipant @jensonolmstead16973]

Working through the bulkhead install now, but boy are my bad cuts super evident at this stage. A little sanding and filling should fix that later on. Im not sure how you guys transfer plans to wood and cut them but i trace on a light table to paper then clear tape to wood and cut with a jigsaw. Not the most precise method but i dont have a scroll saw and my band saw is too small and bendy to cut these larger pieces.

[jenson olmsteadParticipant @jensonolmstead16973]

oh and im having the photo issue too but im uploading pics direct from my pc and noticing the album tool here is twisting my portrait type images to make them horizontal rather than vertical.

[Jay Harris 1Participant @jayharris1]

Looks like great start, and yes, I pretty much transfer my paper stuff to wood the same way.

I am also in the US and i am about 40% through this build. I started it during the pandemic when i had to shut my business down for a few months and just have not had a chance to get back to it. I do hope to return to it this summer or fall though! please keep us updated!

[jenson olmsteadParticipant @jensonolmstead16973]

Posted by Jay Harris 1 on 15/03/2022 18:15:39:

Looks like great start, and yes, I pretty much transfer my paper stuff to wood the same way.

I am also in the US and i am about 40% through this build. I started it during the pandemic when i had to shut my business down for a few months and just have not had a chance to get back to it. I do hope to return to it this summer or fall though! please keep us updated!

Yeah i only have the time to work on this myself since my office recently decentralized and im perm work at home now so i work on it between work time. im eager to get the hull done so its been a major focus and work is slow lately so im hoping to be cutting and gluing planks by this weekend.

[Brian MuirParticipant @brianmuir84327]

Hi Jay and Jenson, I trace from the plans then tape the trace on the wood then prick out to outline with a very sharp bradawl, remove the trace and connect the dots with pencil, that way you don’t get any slippage between wood and tracing paper as you cut.
I used 3mm flexiply for the planks and sides sections which worked very well. I used the same stuff for the deck then overlaid it with pine planking.

[Richard SimpsonParticipant @richardsimpson88330]

Hi Jensen and welcome to the forum. I think this would merit being in its own new thread so, hopefully, Colin can split this off and start a new thread with it.

If your band saw is "too small and bendy" are you completely sure the tension is correct, the pulley's are correctly aligned and the blade is sharp? I would have expected any well set up band saw to be able to cope with that sort of thickness.

[jenson olmsteadParticipant @jensonolmstead16973]

as long as i keep the guides down close to the material and go slow i can manage ok. Its not a very deep blade so it tends to wander. I was able to cut the planking with minimal issues. Its a band saw for harbor frieght which im not sure you have in the UK, but its a discount knock off basically so it has its downsides, but i never really spent any time trying to overcome the downsides setting it up.

I can make my next post on my progress into a new thread, im a bit stalled right now because like Brian mentioned while clever these planks are very fiddly and my not so straight cuts are slowing me further as i clean them up and try to fit and glue. It took me the better part of a day to get the planks traced and cut and so far im only on plank 2 of one side. My not so clean bulkhead cuts also are adding to the issues, but ill make it through at some point and post an update.

[jenson olmsteadParticipant @jensonolmstead16973]

so ive made alot more progress and am starting to think about the R/C aspect of this build. I have installed and rigged up a rudder but the actual sailing pert im not so sure about. Brian, what did you do with your sails and rigging so you could remotely sail the model? Ive been trying to wrap my head around tacking and how this particular model would achieve that? I wasnt going to install a motor because it seems very fiddly and risks water leakage as well as kills the aesthetic, but if this model isnt capable of tacking then there may be no other option unless i want to keep running end to end of my pond.

Thanks

Jenson

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