Turbinia Motors

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13 January 2008 at 09:04 #12081
ashley needham
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@ashleyneedham69188
I am building a "Turbinia" at approx 50 inches long, from plans which do not show any internal running gear. I have sourced 3 shafts and 9x 30mm props(actually should be 25mm or less, but they look terribly small) but am undecided as to what motors to fit. I have bought some excellent 555 motors from model-motors direct, but these would need to be run at 18v to get the sort of revs I THINK I need for this comination.. any ideas? i have seen some pictures of another Turbinia but alas no details. If it was a case of one prop per shaft, I would possibly use some speed 400`s, but ?? I also want a reasonable endurance, so need economical engines. Am I being a bit hopeful? Any ideas..someone out there must have seen/built one! Ashley
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13 January 2008 at 09:49 #12082
Paul T
Participant
@pault84577
Hi Ashley

How heavy will the boat be when completed and do you want "scale" speed or something that is just fast.

Paul
13 January 2008 at 12:28 #12087
ashley needham
Participant
@ashleyneedham69188
Oo er, I never bother to calculate likely weights and so forth! the hull (bare) is 50" by 4 3/4 inches, an about as deep, and weighs 600g, 3×555 motors, for instance are 600g, 1x 6v 4.5Ah gel battery 750g, probly use at least 2 of them.. running gear and radio stuff (BEC for reciever) not an awful lot…probably a small amount of ballast to trim. I would like it to be reasonably fast, as obviously the original was the fastest craft in its day so you would want it to cut a dash and lift the nose clear of the water. What would SCALE speed for Turbinia be? I suppose it wouldnt have to be as fast as a planing Vosper type p/t boat. Ashley
13 January 2008 at 20:23 #12097
Paul T
Participant
@pault84577
Hi Ashley

The Turbinia realised a speed of 35knots with a total of 9 props (3 on each shaft)

At 50in I would sugest a scale speed of 8 >10 mph which would produce an exact replica of the full size speed, to get to this I would advise a 700 center motor and two 400 wing motors coupled to 2 speed controllers.

Paul
15 January 2008 at 15:53 #12128
Telstar
Participant
@telstar
Hi Ashley

Turbinia was 103ft 9in long, so your model at 50in will be about 1/25 scale.

Using the scale factor can give you some idea of other characteristics of your model .

With the real thing weighing 44.5 ton (and if I can do the sums right) would give a model weight of 6.4lb (2.9Kg), also the real boat had 2000Hp which scales down to 97W for the model, so using 6V each motor (3 in total) would draw about 5A when loaded properly with appropriate props.

The props (3 on each shaft) are 3 bladed with relatively narrow blades, Parsons had a lot of trouble with cavitation initially, so spaced the pairs of blades well apart, each prop was 18in dia with a pitch of 24in this would be a blade angle about 30deg,

Turbinia is in the Discovery museum in Newcastle with some info on nationalhistoricships.org.uk/index.cfm/event/getVessel/vref/138 I used info from the eng dept network , some is on the web atwww-g.eng.cam.ac.uk/125/1875-1900/turbinia.html Using dead reckoning will not give exact answers but should be used only to guesstimate answers.Best wishes with your model hope to see photos of the completed project

Cheers Tom
15 January 2008 at 17:09 #12133
ashley needham
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@ashleyneedham69188
Chaps, thanks for that. I must say I had not thought of using two different sized motors..you reasoning being main propulsion on the centre shaft and just keeping the sides spinning? I like this idea as I am worried that all those props will get in each others way. I think I might provide motor mounts to accomodate various motors so i can swap and change for best performance. I will have to bone up on connecting two speed controllers together..is there a proportional unit I can get so that, for instance up to half throttle would mostly go to the centre motor and anything more would progressivly power up the sides? Great site the discovery museum. will bookmark. Ashley
24 February 2008 at 15:11 #12604
ashley needham
Participant
@ashleyneedham69188
Chaps. I have discussed the motor options with various bods now and I think I will go (initially, at any rate) for 3x 600`s of some sort. In actual fact i will leave room to try other stuff, so it will only be a starting point. The problem at the moment is that I had a nice set of 9x30mm cast brass props and 3x3mm stainless shafts but the props have insufficient meat on the boss to grub screw them on with. I am considering using brass shafts and soldering the two mid-shaft props on instead..any thoughts on this? I am a bit worried that the wear may be a bit fierce, althought most of the bearings are water lubricated and the top can be kept oiled up…..? Ashley
24 February 2008 at 20:04 #12614
Paul T
Participant
@pault84577
Hi Ashley

If the submerged bearings are constructed as a short prop tube i.e. with caps on each end that the brass shaft can pass through then you could use Vasoline or Lithium Grease as a lubricant.

Paul
22 April 2008 at 19:19 #13458
ashley needham
Participant
@ashleyneedham69188
Boaters. Two questions now

.a) the plans I have show,or suggest "cyclone 20" motors running at 6v.What would be the modern equivalent of them, and does anyone know what sort of power/revs these motors developed?

b) The plans do NOT show, but I have spotted on various photos, an exterior rudder quadrant on deck, pulled by steel cables. Handy this as room below decks aft is decidedly sparse…but what should I use to pull this quadrant around with??? Nylon line, small chain, polyester yarn?

As an aside, in 1902 the boat was re-propellored with just three slightly larger props (one per shaft now) so i may have a fallback plan…..!
24 April 2008 at 19:15 #13485
ashley needham
Participant
@ashleyneedham69188
I have had a brainwave and am going to use fishing stainless steel flexible wire trace line for the steering. Should be just the job. I only need to know about the Cyclone 20 motors now…..
4 October 2008 at 16:41 #16340
ashley needham
Participant
@ashleyneedham69188
My Graupner 600 ECO choice may not be man enough for this lot??? (one on each shaft of course)
5 October 2008 at 08:40 #16351
ashley needham
Participant
@ashleyneedham69188
Blast, picture not loaded, see my gallery.
5 October 2008 at 16:42 #16358
ashley needham
Participant
@ashleyneedham69188
Or this one.
2 December 2008 at 19:38 #17352
mogogear
Participant
@mogogear
Ashley,

I am a newbie here, so First of all – Hello to you and all .

I have just started on boats this last year( at the ripe old age of 51!!) and also live steam..I have had a fun learning curve and just to keep up my challenges, I am heading towards a project that you are on..A Turbinia build.

The plans are ordered from Traplet ( by Charles Sells) as they are the only ones I can find. Since I am no pro even with plans this will be an endeavor to last me a while…Did I also forget to mention that I also hope to make my boat steam turbine powered..?So I see that you have a wonderful set of prop shafts and props…your picture is one of the very few that arise in a Google search outside of the old historic photos. So I am intrigued.

With this all said, a few questions if I may:

Did you use these plans?

Could I trouble you to share more about your build as I wade into mine?

No real hardened quetions other than those yet as I have not even lifted a bottle of glue. ,But any general wisdom is welcomed . There is pitifully little about this boat that I can find and I am surpised given how historic it is. That it is not offerd in a kit is a shock- It sure seems it would be popular with the hobby world..but I am a true newbie…..

Thanks again
3 December 2008 at 07:04 #17364
ashley needham
Participant
@ashleyneedham69188
Greg. You are right about the lack of a kit, but perhaps it is seen as being a bit specialised? I can remember offhand what plans I have,,,I think they are the same as yours. To be honest i have "adapted" the plans somewhat and am following a "glynn guest" type build, with flat bottom and sides, not that this will be apparent once its on the water, and will guarantee me lifting the bow out the water in true Turbi-style, as I have not got the time/patience/skill /experience to build a plank on frame jobbie. Not sure you will get the neccessary speed from a steam outfit unless you make the boat a bit big…., however after the Turbinias initial trials she was fitted with single props, of greater size and pitch, so possibly for a steam powered job you could go with this as still being authentic. Mine is languishing at the moment due to other projects and the freezing cold in by shed. Ashley
3 December 2008 at 09:48 #17366
HS93
Participant
@hs9317166
the only way you are going to spin the props is to gear them 600s would just go up in smoke, so would 700bb also think of using nicads/minh’s as they will be able to deliver the power faster than a wet battery.

peter
3 December 2008 at 16:07 #17369
mogogear
Participant
@mogogear
Ashley,

Thanks so much for your input and comments- if you took any photos of your build that you could share – I would be very grateful. If not – Oh Well.. I have many details to work on – so I will be busy enough in the planning stages.

Thanks again for a warm response
3 December 2008 at 18:33 #17370
ashley needham
Participant
@ashleyneedham69188
Peter. You may be right. I have not got around to any trials yet. When it warms up a bit and i can get to the pond with various motors and my test stuff we will find out !!!

Greg. No problem. The defining feature of the Turbinia is all those props, and it has to be fast as well. If you want a steam plant, I think you may be in for some serious experimentation. Ashley
3 December 2008 at 18:53 #17371
mogogear
Participant
@mogogear
You are undoubtedly correct on the experimentation!! Ahh the challenge of it all! BTW-The prop shaft photo you have displayed is what lured me to this site. They spot on!! Well done…
9 January 2009 at 19:20 #6424
ashley needham
Participant
@ashleyneedham69188
What type?
8 February 2010 at 01:34 #25471
parmetrada
Participant
@parmetrada
Hello Mogogear and Ashley. I too am a Turbinia enthusiast but with absolutely no model building experience. I have been running a project in a Wallsend school to inspire the youngsters through Tynesides greatest engineers and Parsons in particular. We have been getting the kids to build the most streamlined hulls that they can manage from clay and vac forming them and using clockwork motors.we will be trialing them at a regatta in a few weeks time. As a bit of a treat and an indulgence on my part i thought it would be great to build a rough working steam turbine model of turbinia out of soldered drinks can steel. I am intruiged by the plans that you mention from traplet. Are they detailed hull diagrams with cross members from the originals? I have found a publication called ‘the first destroyers’ which seems to come with plans for the HMS velox which was fairly close to turbinia in design. I have been struggling with a suitable low cost steam turbine and am about to experiment with an air micro die grinder but have no idea of it’s suitability under steam.This follows on from an experiment with a dentist’s drill cartridge that i first tried as a model steam turbine. It was fantastic but alas ground to a halt, possibly due to heat and expansion Any advice or ideas appreciate… hmm water cooling ?
8 February 2010 at 12:18 #25477
Telstar
Participant
@telstar
Hi Parmetrada You are in an ideal place to go look at the real thing. Turbinia full size is in a museum in Newcastle I’m not sure if some of Parsons original info is there now, it was when the boat was in Exibition Park museum. also if you go to Tynemouth there is two models of the boat sailed on the lake on the sea front the model club there is very friendly.

As far as your drill turbine stopping had you put any lubrication system on? dentists drills have small quantitys of light oil poured into the air inlet and blown through regularly, on steam you would need to use a more substantial lubricant perhaps steam oil?
8 February 2010 at 20:14 #25491
ashley needham
Participant
@ashleyneedham69188
Hmmm…Despite the Turbinia being a speedy boat on its turbines, I have a desperate feeling that you might struggle with model steam turbines. oddly enough Wilesco (is that right ?) appear to list a model steam turbine, but presumably this is in the Mamod department rather than a serious workhorse..

The only turbines I have seen (in magazines) have been full-on model engineer type jobbies, with hours of lathe work etc etc

Your idea about the drills is certainly novel, mind you, and I like the thinking “outside the box”. I am just wondering if you will be able to get the power from these units as they are, presumably, a bit small. Makes you wonder what else there might be available to double as a steam turbine? You may also require a very nifty boiler…even a flash steam job, as i understand that steam turbines are very steam hungry…..(Parsons).

I say, go for it, and the very best of luck..imagine it on the pool… A Turbinia ACTUALLY turbine driven…Fantastic!

Ashley
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