What Floats YOUR Boat?

[Colin BishopModerator @colinbishop34627]

The John Readearth thread on automating steering and other functions on your boats raises some interesting issues as to what we actually want out of our hobby so I thought I would start a new topic to invite people’s views.

I think we would all recognise that model boat devotees want different things from their hobby. Some prefer the building aspects, some operating and other as varying mixture of both. At one extreme you have those building static models, at the other those who buy ready to run boats as that is where their interest lies.

John has expressed surprise at the apparent lack of interest in his automated steering techniques but boat modellers are not necessarily Luddites, they pick and choose which innovations contribute to their interpretation of their hobby. Brushless motors and LiPo batteries are now widely embraced because they offer what many boaters want, more power in a smaller package contributing to improved performance. People who put their models on the water do so because they enjoy seeing them afloat and steering them, they don’t necessarily want to delegate the latter to an automated process as that is the bit they enjoy. If they want to turn their attention elsewhere while the boat is on the water they can simply stop it a safe place it and let it drift.

John’s techniques seem to be about programming and its physical application which is not model boating specific and which can be applied in other fields so they are only likely to apply to model boaters with an interest in computer programming applications.

There is a lot of discussion about 3D printing at the moment but in my case it leaves me cold. I enjoy making the physical component myself and 3D printing kicks the creative and design process upstream to an electronic draughting program. Other people see it the other way round, they enjoy the draughting process and are happy to see the machine take care of the physical reproduction. Whatever floats your boat!

Model boating is a broad church and some parts of it are more popular than others. The model boating magazines need to concentrate on the mainstream as that is where their reader base (and advertising income) lies. There is some room for innovative material but it has to compete for a place alongside the more popular genre and it does need to have model boating specific application that will appeal to a reasonable proportion of the readership.

I enjoy making the hull, superstructure and most of the fittings. I also enjoy fitting the electrics and running gear but once it is all working and tested I don’t tend to run the models much as simply driving round the pond in circles soon becomes boring. It was different back in the heyday of the MPBA Scale Section back in the 70s and 80s with clubs all over the country competing to devise ingenious and sometimes fiendish navigation courses but that is another story!

Colin

[Colin BishopModerator @colinbishop34627]

Which parts of our hobby do you most enjoy?

[Paul TParticipant @pault84577]

Hi Colin

I am looking forward to this thread.

For me it is the precision of design and getting the very best into my boats, for example prop shafts at less than 5deg or bow shapes that produce a clean and sharp bow wave.

Paul

[Paul FreshneyParticipant @paulfreshney24971]

And rather conveniently in January 2016 MB is an article by Ron Rees on 3D printing. Personally, I am very much into hand-making a master (a bollard perhaps) and then replicating it in resin from a mould, but for those familiar with the computer processes, then the 3D printer has a role. The only problem is that this technology is developing so quickly, your new machine today may well be out of date or need upgrading this time next year. In the article, a friend of Ron has successfully 3D produced a functioning miniature Voith Schneider unit.

Generally, the vast majority of model boaters tend to buy, plug together and then operate the r/c technology rather than actually self-make equipment nowadays, not least because if it doesn't work they can take it back to the supplier. Mind you, some don't /never read the instructions, and then wonder why it doesn't work, but that is another story.

Paul Freshney

Editor.

[Terry PlumridgeParticipant @terryplumridge66794]

Hi all,

interesting question. Personally I have found building plank on frame hulls very satisfying, but painting the model a bit of a chore, it never looks quite right to me. Overcoming problems along the way during a build is a good morale booster. Last winter I built a Joffre, that dragged on a bit for me, but gave me a great deal of satisfaction when it finally got it's bum wet, and that of course is the greatest feeling of achievement, literally, "floating your boat".

When conditions are right, and the lake is all mine, sailing my yacht can become an almost Zen like experience, good for body and soul.

Just my thoughts,Terry.

Edited By Terry Plumridge on 05/12/2015 18:47:28

[Paul TParticipant @pault84577]

When conditions are right, and the lake is all mine, sailing my yacht can become an almost Zen like experience, good for body and soul.

Terry I couldn't have put it any better…..Well said.

Paul

[mike farrellParticipant @mikefarrell21522]

Hi All ,Well this looks as if this will pose many questions and even more answers ..For me precise cutting and accurate fitting ,watertight from the start is a must

I also feel a designers lines should be followed to the end .

New ideas are exciting and when well thought out are exciting.

My main hope for this tread is that it gets many more readers involved ,they should feel they have something to say and will be respected Michael

[Tony HadleyParticipant @tonyhadley]

Hi, here are my likes (and dislikes) about the hobby.

Very much enjoy building all parts of the model, whether it is fitting out the electrics, making the hull, making the fittings or painting, I just like to get on with it and enjoy the task. OK my models won't win the gold medal at the ME, but that isn't the objective.

I like to research the designs of yesteryear, Aerokits, Veron, Vic Smeed & others.

As for sailing the models, I prefer to go on my own, not really a keen club member nowadays. Years ago, I used to really enjoy going to the club and sailing, whereas nowadays I tend to sail when the club aren't at the lake.

I would like to find time to go to exhibitions, but a work commitment at weekends makes this difficult, therefore the exhibition reports in the magazine are very much of interest.

OK with computers, haven't got around to 3D printing, not sure it could ever replace making my own fittings. Learning CAD, the last time I was working in a drawing office, Rotring pens were the norm..

[Andy CParticipant @andyc56856]

I like the fact that once you have spent the time and effort marking out, cutting and sticking it all together, misfits, trial and error etc that goes with it are part and parcel of the whole thing, you have something from your own hands. My kids even like it to some degree, not boats necessarily, but they like building other stuff. 3D printers have there place, and I would probably use one to make some of the small fittings, I cannot do that sort of thing, but that is tech for you.

Andy

[John.RedearthParticipant @john-redearth]

Hey Colin

Thanks for opening this up, and I am very interested to see what people have to say. I think my arduino stuff is a bit out of right field so I don’t imagine people will jump at it at first, and I do think that the target group who may be interested may not be so easy to tap into. But this is a welcome start!

I love to scratch build. I like to use unusual methods of building and get an enormous kick out of it. I am not keen on 3D either. When a boat is finished I tend to get a bit bored. I like boats to move to scale and I think slow is better than fast. For that reason I do not do brushless, yet.. I would love to have some courses and challenges, but they don’t seem to exist anywhere.

I have scratch built a sub and the depth keeping device died. There were no others around on the market and then I discovered arduino. This became quite a project but within 3 months from the start I had it working on the bench. I realised as I was doing this I could get it to do many other things, such as routines triggered by pressure and all sorts of things. Mind you when I applied it a healthy dose of reality caused some of it to be re written. I am, in arduino terms, a newbie. Needless to say, I am excited about what can be done with it!

I also like taking movies of boats, which led to me adapting a boat into being a camera boat, and this led to me wanting to automate control so that it holds a course so I can concentrate on turning the cameras and sailing the ‘objects’ of the film if I am on my own. Now that I had an introduction into arduino I found this an interesting project. As such ‘holding a course’ is something I have put up in the forum as an example of what can be done. It is certainly not intended to be an end in itself. I do have a very practical role for it though.

In the club I am a part of most have no clue about what I am doing. The very few young people who come are attracted to the sub and I tell them about arduino and they are interested. These are the ones who are the challenge to reach.

I sound like an evangelist here.

[harry smith 1Participant @harrysmith1]

HI ALL

I like the friends in the model boat club and talking to people young and old about model boats.

Also building boats in general, but, not super scale boats.

Scratch building boats from plans with a bit modification.

e.g. My Sea Hornet 2015 with hidden engine and rudder(battery and receiver).

Also one piece windscreens.

The Sea Hornet is good for about 40mph.

At present start another boat which is a bit of Swordsman, Sea Commander and Huntress with a bit of modern spray rail as well.

I name it the SEA RAVEN !!!!

Harry

[ashley needhamParticipant @ashleyneedham69188]

I have always made "things", or mended motorcycles and so on, I originally made some model boats because it was something to make that actually WORKED as per like wot it was made to resemble.

I just dabbled back then without any guidance or indeed without going too much into the nitty gritty of it all. It`s all so much easier now with information via google at your fingertips.

When the lad came along and was eventually old enough to be given a cheap RTR by GRANDMA , I got back into the boating thing, making a few simple items to start with and also a few simple items for him to use, and also to keep his interest up. There is no rhyme or reason to what small boys like and so I started to make different…items…as per his fancy, and mine, and now I find myself making different things just because they ARE different and not run-of-the-mill.

So, to get to the point of the thread; Its the challenge of translating an idea or grainy photo (just wait and see) into a working living boat that does it for me now, and thinking outside the box a bit (and using new materials like superior man-made board products). None of my models are works of art or highly detailed, they try to capture the look or feel of whatever they are supposed to be and no more, because then it`s on to the next one ¬
And now I have retired I have nothing better to do!

Ashley

Edited By ashley needham on 06/12/2015 17:48:18

[Paul TParticipant @pault84577]

And now I have retired I have nothing better to do

So much time and so little hardboard

[ashley needhamParticipant @ashleyneedham69188]

Sorry , That should have been "and there is nothing better to do".

So much superior man-made board, and so little time.

Ashley

PS, I am also a mind-reader….

[Kimosubby ShipyardsParticipant @kimosubbyshipyards]

For me it's the build, especially the hull, working from lines or creating your own set (project on-going) from a photograph . I get a real buzz seeing a plank on frame hull gradually filling out, but sad as well as the frames that create the shape are covered over never to be seen again.

With a yacht it also follows that having made everything, then sailing it for the first time and starting to believe that maybe you can make a decent boat from some bits of wood, cotton sheet and string and don't require anything else except water and a gentle breeze.

And lastly it's helping others to achieve their modelling dreams too – making sails for them, or simple gadgets to control some lights, or explaining to them the complicated manual that they received with their charger but cannot quite understand its meaning, AND just showing as much appreciation and interest in others' modelling efforts as you do for your own. We may not all be the best, but we do the best we can.

Aye, Kim

[BanjomanParticipant @banjoman]

For my part, there are several aspects to why I so much enjoy building model boats.

One is a deep fascination held since a rather tender age with all things maritime. Although for various reasons (distance from the sea, lack of time, money and/or opportunity being a few) this has been more of an armchair than a practical pursuit, it has nevertheless always been there. When in my mid-teens, I was quite set on joining the merchant navy, but gave those plans up when further research into how this might be achieved turned up the unfortunate fact that at least back then in Sweden, you could not get a discharge book unless you had (neigh on) perfect vision without correcting aids in at least one eye — and I am rather short-sighted on both sides …

As I could not go to sea, I instead decided to go down the academic trail, and eventually ended up reading history, archeaology and archival science at university. History was and remains another of my passions, not least maritime history, and so there is another reason why I like model boats: they allow (and require) me to find about about the history of ships and sailing them: how things were, what they looked like, how they worked and why in order to be able to reproduce them as accurately as I can.

Beyond the historical aspects, I also just simply love learning new stuff, or more about stuff I already have a certain familarity with. To give but a small example: when Bob Abell suggested for my recent Puffer build that I should have a packet of Woodbines and a box of Swan Vestas on the wheelhouse table, I thoroughly emjoyed the ensuing search for information about these. I knew about them in a very general way, from having seen them referred to in books, but exactly how did they look around 1950? It was great fun trying to find out — and of course so much easier these days than it would have been pre-Internet and Google … and adding that small piece of, in the general scheme of things, completely useless knowledge to my stock I also found most pleasing.

There is also an aspect of estethic pleasure that helps float my boat. I find it wonderful that, perhaps not all but so very many boats and ships are such a lovely combination of the practical and the beautiful. Things look they way they do, have the lines they have, for very sound, practical reasons, but are so often also esthetically appealing. In other words, I get a kick from trying my best to reproduce the harmonious marriage of form and function that I see in many boats.

I also possess a reasonable practical bent, and have for as long as I can remember loved doing things with my hands, but also understanding technical (not least of which mechanical) stuff. Again, I also like to know more about why things are the way they are, how they solve problems and also to solve problems myself to at least my own satisfaction. In other words: to translate intellectual knowledge and reflection into practical execution. Again, building model boats comes with an almost endless number of challenges to be met and practical problems to be solved, while the reduced size of models makes the pursuit feasible within the limitations of available space, time and resources.

I am drawn more towards scale than generic, and in general am more interested in slower boats than in trying to go as fast as possible. I am not very competitive either for that matter. As for methods of propulsion, I am particlualrly drawn to steam and sail, but am quite happy, too, with electrically drive models.

The only aspect of building that I can think of that I really do not enjoy is sanding. I will do as I'm told, and sand away under my own strict  orders, but I find it no fun at all. All the rest I like in pretty much equal measure, including taking a model out on the pond.

Finally, I tend to find non-naval vessels more interesting subjects. Partially this is, I suspect, because I find it difficult to get past the ultimate function of a warship, namely to kill and destroy. I'm not saying that this is not needed or necessary — but too often au contraire! — but on a personal level I find it more difficult to take pleasure from such a ship than from one designed for peaceful purposes. However, I strongly suspect that the main reason is down to taste — I find at least more modern (say, post-dreadnought era) warships less pretty, just as I am not really drawn to modern merchant ships either; perhaps there is some kind of tipping point for me where there is too much function and too little form. This is of course not meant to be in any way disrespectful to those who build model warships, but rather an exploration of what floats my particular boat — and what doesn't.

All in all, the above means that I very much enjoy reading about most aspects of the hobby, but take a particular interest in articles that go into much detail about how things work or how practical problems of function or fabrication were or could be solved.

/Mattias

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[Dodgy Geezer 1Participant @dodgygeezer1]

Arguing with all the other modellers in the world who have slightly different opinions from myself on any minor issue under the sun….

 

Oh, and finding old plans and getting them out on the web. I've just got a set of frame drawings for the Sterling 63ft yacht which will be going up shortly….

Edited By Dodgy Geezer on 07/12/2015 14:18:42

[ashley needhamParticipant @ashleyneedham69188]

DG. With you on that one.

63ft yacht, that's some mo​del…

Ashley

[Dodgy Geezer 1Participant @dodgygeezer1]

Posted by ashley needham on 08/12/2015 09:02:01:

DG. With you on that one.

63ft yacht, that's some mo​del…

Ashley

 

I think it's the US equivalent of the Aerokits Sea Queen – the Sterling 63ft. Chris Craft Motor Yacht model is 40" long, and the biggest in the range. I have the instructions and the frame drawings – now all I need is the plan.

 

Here's a video:  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vAl8puWvwSI

Edited By Dodgy Geezer on 08/12/2015 10:18:32

[Andy CParticipant @andyc56856]

Wow, she moves at a fair old clip. Not sure they were designed to plane like that though. Great looking model though, huge amount of detail.

Andy

[Andy HustlerParticipant @andyhustler32076]

I enjoy seeing the finished job and taking it out on the lake and hearing comments both god and bad ,bad i take as crunstive criticism and helps me build on my knowledge and on a negative side it's the comments from the CHAVSwho offr you a few quid for your boat and when you turn them down they get all nasty and insult your work .

Andy

[Paul TParticipant @pault84577]

To pick up on Andy's comments, although I'm not sure that this qualifies for 'what floats your boat'.

The look on a persons face when they ask for a quote for designing or building a model boat….'HOW MUCH'……I honestly believe that these people think we live on fresh air and that they are doing you a favour by asking. 'Bloody hell I only want a model not a real one'

Thankfully I seem to have left such CHAVS (is this the right word) behind as my last few enquiries and commissions have been from people who expect to pay realistic sums of money for a properly researched, designed and built model.

Paul

[Colin BishopModerator @colinbishop34627]

Not CHAVS Paul, they just haven't thought it through and have no idea what is involved.

Colin

[Steve SearsonParticipant @stevesearson65650]

I have just made models of what I fancy cars, trucks, boats and model railways (now in three scales) from whatever including plastic kits since I was a boy, the first serious boat was a wooden Leander frigate in 1/148 scale by PBM in the 1970's, the last was the proposed stealth frigate Sea wraith ii again in balsa in 1/148 using plans expanded from a card kit to 1/400, its in the albums on this site. Recently I have had pleasure and some satisfaction from acquiring unfinished kits from fleebay and other sales getting them finished off and working, these include a Deans Liberty ship as the SS Richard Montgomery, Billing Bent, Smit London, Smit Nederland and a Grupner Paddle tug, usually sold off when interest in them and storage has faded. The last full boat kit completed was the Caldercraft Ryhope tug, and I would like the Volcano again by Caldercraft to add to my collection. As can be seen i tend to go from one thing to another and then there's my MGF Trophy 160se, Oh yes.

Steve.

[Bob WilsonParticipant @bobwilson59101]

As long as the subject is Merchant Navy, between about 1850 and 1965, I am interested in all aspects of it. As you know, I have now built hundreds of models of them. I also enjoy reading books on the subject both non-fiction and fiction. Most of my reading now comes from the free downloads of the Gutenberg Project. I especially like the Harry Collingwood, Clarke Russell, and Frank Bullen books. I am presently reading "A Middy of the King" by Harry Collingwood. (Yes, I do read naval fiction as well!) Here is the link if any of you fancy reading it:

**LINK**

Although most of his books were written over 100 years ago, I find him superior to most modern nautical writers. (He did spend time at sea in sail) This one concerns the adventures of a midshipman aboard a small frigate during the Napoleonic wars.

My modelmaking preferences are scratchbuilt static miniatures of both sailing ships and steamships., preferring the obscure or semi-obscure, over the obligatory Cuttys Sarks, Victorys, Bountys and Titanics! I would go into radio control if there was a suitable water close by, but can't be bothered going from Preston to Fleetwood. I gave up on kits many years ago, not having the money, space, time or patience to build them successfully!

I have written several books and enjoy writing. These are "Vanity Publications" meaning that I pay for them to be printed! I got fed up of publishers rejecting my manuscripts with "nobody is interested in boats these days." Although I only write about ships, not boats!

I have recently taken to drawing up plans of sailing ships of the 1850 – 1939 era, and am enjoying the change from model shipbuilding.

Present day seafaring leaves me cold! Modern ships simply do not appeal to me in any way!

Bob

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