Setting the jib sheets on the Aeronaut Hansa-jolle sailing boat.

[Johannes JonesParticipant @johannesjones12331]

Hi. I’m getting close to finishing the Aeronaut Hansa-jolle sailing boat, and I can’t get my head round setting up the jib sheets.

For those that don’t know, there’s no jib boom and there are 2 sheets, one pulling the sail to starboard and another pulling it to port. When the servo is central, there’s a lot of slack in the sheets. I may be doing it wrong, or possibly I just don’t know how it’s supposed to work, but as it stands, it doesn’t feel right to me. To be clear, I’m attempting to follow the updated instructions for rigging that come with the kit, but, in my opinion, they’re a bit vague.The directions on routing the sheets are clear enough, but that’s pretty much where they end. I’d have liked something a bit more specific on final adjustments.

If anybody has any thoughts or ideas or previous experience of rigging the Aeronaut Hansa-jolle that they’re prepared to pass on, I’d be very grateful.

Thanks in advance,

John Jones

[Tim RoweParticipant @timrowe83142]

Hello John

There are lots of examples of how to work jib sheets on Youtube.

Here is one that might help you

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TnMAy5eIInE&t=207s

Tim

[Johannes JonesParticipant @johannesjones12331]

Hi Tim and thanks for the link. I’m very familiar with Gary Webb and his designs. I recently completed the sloop, Emma. If it wasn’t for the fact that all Gary’s designs have keels which are much too long for the lake that my club sails on, I’d be building more. I am drawn back to building a reduced scale Irene, as it’s a design I’d really like to build and it has already been done successfully at a smaller scale.

My reason for building the Hans-jolle was that I wanted to build a tried and tested design with port and starboard sheets for the jib to see how it went, and currently that’s not going too well. Gary’s method of controlling the jib sheets on his boats look very straightforward and based on current experience with one of his designs, I’d say it was well thought out. Unfortunately, try as I might, I can’t make any sense of the Hansa-jolle’s jib sheet arrangement and I don’t think that familiarity with Gary’s designs is going to help. (Well, it hasn’t so far.)

Part of my problem is that I don’t know what to expect; for all I know, what I’ve got so far is as good as it’s going to get. I will continue to search YouTube for relevant videos, but what I’m really hoping for is that somebody who’s built the Hansa-jolle to give me the benefit of his/her experience. Yes, I know that, basically, I’m hoping for the solution to my problem to be handed to me on a plate, but while I’m waiting, I will continue to work on it.

Thanks for coming back with advice; I will carry on searching YouTube and Google for ideas.

John the baffled

[Johannes JonesParticipant @johannesjones12331]

Hi again. The sheet arrangement for both sails was updated at some point by incorporating a doubler arrangement to greatly increase the available movement of the sails which was originally totally inadequate. This works fine on the mainsail, but causes the problems I’m having with the jib. I established this by setting up the jib sheets as per the original instructions (without the doubler) and it works just fine, apart from having very limited travel (the clew moves about 50mm each side of central). The sail is firmly held in whatever position it’s put in and neither sheet has appreciable slack at any point in its movement.

So I’m going to have to look at it again to see if I can figure out why the travel doubler arrangement is causing the problem I’m experiencing.

Sorry if I’m not explaining the doubler arrangement very well; I don’t know what the technical term is and I don’t know how to describe how it works without tying myself (and probably any reader) in verbal knots.

John

[Johannes JonesParticipant @johannesjones12331]

After a great deal of playing around with the jib sheets as per the design, I eventually decided to sidestep the whole business by using a sail winch servo. This has worked out fine, so I’m no longer looking for ideas on this problem.

Thanks,

John Jones

[Chris FellowsParticipant @chrisfellows72943]

Good that you’ve got it sorted. I’m probably going to use a sail winch servo on my Fisherman build.

Chris

[Johannes JonesParticipant @johannesjones12331]

I prefer winch servos for several reasons: they tend to have more torque than a servo with an extended arm, they need less space in the hull than a servo with an extended arm, and because they take longer to change position, to me, they look more realistic in action. I’ve watched several videos on YouTube of multi-masted boats, where the sails take a fraction of a second to move to a new position. I prefer a slower movement. Obviously, this is a personal preference; others may not agree with my views. Each to their own.

Additionally, Kingmax do a programmable winch that can be set to move anything from 1 turn end to end to 6 turns end to end. I bought the programmer last year, and it’s very handy, although I had some trouble getting it to work to start with.

John

[Chris FellowsParticipant @chrisfellows72943]

Yes, the smaller space was one of the important aspects for me and already having them in my DF65 yachts. You make a good point about the speed though which I hadn’t thought about and which will also provide better control.

I usually use Hitec servos but thanks for the info. on the Kingmax as that could be an option though on one of my yachts I can control the amount of sheet movement using the Tx settings. Good to have options though.

Chris

[Johannes JonesParticipant @johannesjones12331]

Yeah, my first experience of a winch servo was in a DF95. Sold me on the idea. And it was Mike Weston of RC Yachts (where I get odds and sods like bowsies, Dyneema cord, servos  and other Joysway parts) who told me that the servos used in the ’65 and ’95 were re-badged Kingmax servos. And it just went from there. If you’re interested, The Component Shop sells the programmable winch (SW6114MD) and the programmer; the latter cost me £14 last year or so. It’s not always in stock, though. One thing to be aware of, although the guys at The Component Shop are very helpful, I got the impression that it’s been so long since they installed a programmer and related software on a PC (they offer to set your winch to whatever number of rotations you need), that they’ve forgotten what’s involved. It took me a good while to get mine up and running even with their help. But I’m there now.

I use a FlySky FS-i6 setup which also enables me to adjust the travel on my winch servos (down to zero, for what it’s worth), but, as you say, it’s always good to have options. Also, I just like messing with techy stuff.

Interested in the Fisherman you mention; is it a kit? Presumably, it’s a sailing boat or you wouldn’t be using winches. I’m always interested to find about model sailing boat designs.

Cheers,

John

[Chris FellowsParticipant @chrisfellows72943]

Yes, I’m a customer of both of those suppliers. As well as a Dragonforce 65 I first bought a Joysway HyperPro 65 which was slightly cheaper than the DF though it used many of the same parts. Probably found not to be viable though as it wasn’t available for long. I like it as it’s beamier but therefore not as fast which unless you’re racing doesn’t matter.

As regards the Fisherman 27 it was a Fairey Marine design and not a kit or any drawings available. No line drawings of the full-size boat available either but I did manage with the help of a plan and side view but only one frame to draw up my own as I’ve done with all my builds.

I’ve only just started the build in Build Blogs where my other Fairey builds are and the pre-build which gives the background information is in Beginners/New Project which I’ve bumped to the first page. Had to be another Fairey but I wanted to build something different and with sails.

Incidently when looking for the pre-build I came across your post on the servo – gulp!

Chris

 

[Johannes JonesParticipant @johannesjones12331]

You’re a true modeller, then. I wouldn’t know where to start, so I’m dependent on others for plans and/or kits, which isn’t a great position to be in because you can’t rely on somebody designing and possibly kitting exactly what you want to build. I keep thinking about taking that plunge, but that’s as far as I’ve got.

My choice of boats is also very much influenced by the depth of our home lake. As far as I’m aware, it’s about 17 – 19 inches deep all over, but that’s not wholly based on personal experience; it’s mainly what I’ve been told. I have a DF65, and I had to use the shorter keel fin that RC Yachts offer: with the longer fin, the weight hits bottom. My Bearospace Emma just about sails but the keel weight hits what seems to be every rock on the bottom and that’s with the keel shortened by 6 inches.

I doubt if I’ll ever create a plan and build a boat from it, but I’m very glad that there are people like you who do. Without you, there wouldn’t be any plans or kits for people like me to build.

Respect,

John

[Johannes JonesParticipant @johannesjones12331]

PS Just googled the Fairey Fisherman 27. Very attractive boat. It looks in the image I downloaded as if it’s a rounded hull, which I’m guessing will be more difficult to design than a hard chine hull. (As you can probably tell, I’m not fully up to speed with the correct nautical terminology.)

My preference is for gaff rigged boats, and I’m just about ready to embark on a schooner with same (an 80% size Bearospace Irene, probably with a much shortened keel. We shall see.).

John

[Chris FellowsParticipant @chrisfellows72943]

Yes, hard chine hulls are relatively easy to draw up if you have a side view and a plan showing the deck and chine.

The Fisherman uses a hull that was originally designed as a ship’s lifeboat but whilst it passed all the tests required it was too expensive. I tried to find drawings of a similar hull but without success so it was a case of best guess with reference to photographs.

Another build will be the Faun, another where Fairey used an existing hull, this time from the Falcon sailing dinghy. Again no chines but was easier to draw up than the Fisherman.

Chris

[Johannes JonesParticipant @johannesjones12331]

In the images I saw, the jib sail doesn’t have a boom and the clew is behind the mast (well behind for one of them). This will presumably mean that you’re going to have to use a sheet rig similar to the one I just wrestled with. I hope you have less hassle than I did.

One of the works-in-progress that I’ve got on the go is the Billings Dragen. This also lacks a jib boom and the jib sail goes beyond the mast. I’ve noticed in YouTube videos of this boat that I’ve seen, that most builders add a boom and reduce the foot so that the jib can be controlled by the same servo as the mainsail. Whatever floats their boat (literally), I suppose. I’m intending to do it as per the design (which is why I bought the Hansa-Jolle; to see how it should go). The main problem is going to be weight, with three servos, etc. I don’t suppose you know of any winch servos that are smaller than standard?

The image that I’ve seen of the Fairey Faun has a very unusual (to my eyes, at least) sail arrangement, with a jibsail which is larger than the mainsail and the mast is stepped much further back than usual. I realise that the latter probably explains the former, but it looks very odd to me. It would probably prompt a lot of discussion at the lakeside, although not at my home lake as I appear to be the only serious sailing boat fan and my club mates probably wouldn’t even notice.

John

 

[Chris FellowsParticipant @chrisfellows72943]

Hi, to be honest I hadn’t studied the sails much so far as my usual method is to work on the drawings first for the hull so that I can start building and then tackle the superstructure as I go along, which will include the mast and sails, though of course I do have to give those aspects some thought, particularly if they have a bearing on the hull design and construction. But, as you say, there is no boom.

I think you mean Fisherman rather than Faun, as the latter is a motor river and lake cruiser. If so there are two versions of the Fisherman and I think the one you mention is the one fitted with a mizzen and mizzen stay sail and has the mast at the rear – the rig is only intended as steadying canvas and getting you home in an emergency. It does look odd!

My version has a sloop rig with the mast mounted towards the front of the cabin and provides satisfactory performance under sail alone and looks much better! As well as looks I wanted something that could actually sail!

The only servos I know about are the ones used in the DF and the one you mentioned. I guess with going smaller there is a danger of the servo being overwhelmed, though less of a problem with a winch than an arm.

Chris

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