Scale Boats – How do you sail yours?

[Colin BishopModerator @colinbishop34627]

Do you prefer free sailing or the challenge that courses provide?

[Colin BishopModerator @colinbishop34627]

In the mid 1990s I took a 10 year break from active modelling in favour of full size sailing. When I left, the emphasis at regattas was on MPBA steering courses which I had become used to over many years since the mid 1970s.

 

On my return to the hobby it was very evident that sailing courses had largely given way to free sailing events.

 

Personally I have found this rather disappointing as I enjoyed the challenge of  negotiating a well designed steering course with its canals, dockings and fiendish arrangements of buoys which really tested your ability to control your model. I’m not in favour of cutthroat competition but do enjoy a challenge in steering my boats.

 

Now, at many events, it seems you just put your boat in the water and steer about rather aimlesly which may look pretty but is not ultimately very satisfying.

 

Given that modern R/C gear allows you to have all sorts of special functions including mixer control of twin screws and the  use of bow thrusters it does seem a shame to me that the only way you can put your boat through its paces is to engage in the maritime equivalent of “Strictly Come Dancing” in pirouetting around in the middle of an empty pond.

 

Am I alone in thinking that there should be something more to give satisfaction in running our boats in a way that represents their prototypes or am I just whistling in the dark?

 

Colin

[Rick DevonshireParticipant @rickdevonshire]

There are still a number of clubs who put on steering course type events ie. The Potteries MBC.

I have often wondered if it would be possible to devise a steering course for fast scale craft such as MTBs. My Idea is taken from ‘slalom’ skiing events whereby the boat would be required to navigate a series of ‘gates’ in the shortest time possibe and  contact with any gate would mean ‘penalty seconds’ added to the final score.

Have any clubs tried this?

Rick.

[Paul TParticipant @pault84577]

Colin

 

In my teens I enjoyed dinghy racing and sailing around a course against other boats but later in life I changed to free sailing my 6 ton Hillyard on the sea and became bored with restrictive regatta events.

Model steering events do challange the model builder but I think that the events only attract the very experienced as the novice has the fear of looking daft

I do like Rick’s idea of high speed steering events for the more powerful and larger boats and would give that kind of event a go.

 

Paul

[ashley needhamParticipant @ashleyneedham69188]

Chaps,

 

I only fiddle around boating on a Sunday morning (generally) and so am happy with “free sailing”, and to be honest would not want to spend a whole day at a regatta type event.

 

So saying, our pond has loads of features to navigate round, including a small stream with a fairly strong current which has shallow spots, logs, stones, patches of weed..both on the surface and on the bottom etc etc, and this is quite a challenge sometimes. During the closed season for fishing we can go round the very large pond which has some small islands in it and other items for interest.

 

Does the thirst for a few bouys perhaps sharpen up if your home water is a bit boring and /or has no spectator interest?  Our pond has loads of public persons and small children in it …sorry…AROUND it….so we can spread the boating word and show off a bit.

 

 

Ashley

 

Edited By ashley needham on 14/10/2009 07:01:56

[David WooleyParticipant @davidwooley82563]

This is an interesting topic. Like Colin I cut my teeth on organized steering competitions but not scale these where high speed steering  events  for I/Cs up to 30cc{ although the optimum was around 3.5cc }  or Electric .The courses were  30m triangles with  1m gates and the aim was pure and simple , clear rounds as fast as you could go. The design of the course was the   international NAVIGA standard so no matter where you competed it was exactly the same for every competitor. Good or bad you could practice, which I did and hone your skills to achieve the best you could do. Two of the most proficient at that time was Phil Connolly and    John Cundell,   competitors every one wanted to beat and they where good. Both where top class international competitors and record holders. In fact we even had Record days where models could  do  “point to point straight line  or to put it simply  go as fast as it was possible and claim the record. These were adrenalin rush events and very entertaining. Representing your country  {GB}  at Naviga   was by itself a high achievement  which was always over subscribed. Sadly  few if any compete at Naviga, a shame but a fact. If I can recall the last UK Brit to compete at any Naviga  was Paul Freshney and to gain any award at that level is  hard work  and an achievement .

Going back to Colin’s original question about  scale courses and why  modelers prefer  the free sail.   Perhaps  in some respects   it’s the old question who  does the work , designs the course , dons the waders or goes out in the dingy to set the course up , runs the event  and ultimately clears the lot up?

Dave Wooley >>

> >

[Rick DevonshireParticipant @rickdevonshire]

My suggestion was for a rather more complex course than the triangle of the Naviga course –  more of a ‘slalom’ type – I had electric scale or semi-scale craft in mind. It seems rather a shame that current steering course seem to be of a very intricate but slow speed affair and it would be interesting for boats such as MTBs, ASRBs to be able to employ their speed on a less intricate, but still demanding, type of course.

Rick.

 

[Kevin BellmanParticipant @kevinbellman86047]

Colin,

 

I am most definately with you on this – I can think of nothing more boring than sailing a boat up and down an empty stretch of water!

 

I’m lucky living in the South West as SWAMBC http://www.swambc.webeden.co.uk/ run a series of scale steering events over the year.

 

In addition Newquay(Crealy) and Exeter clubs are able to leave there courses out all year so you can practise or just play.

 

I cant see speed events catching on for scale MTBs etc,. Catch a buoy wrong, flip the boat over and there go all your fittings!!!

[Mark HawkinsParticipant @markhawkins71181]

Just to have my ten penth worth, I enjoy both free sailing and competition sailing, The Stoke Navy day as mentioned before is one my favourite days of the year.>>

 >>

It is nice to go sailing with Ashley now and then and dodge the Swans fighting with the Geese, however I build my models to run and behave as near as possible to the real thing, so the chance to put a model around a course is often welcome. The problem that I have experienced is that to design a course that is fair to all sizes of model is almost impossible and in many cases people have started to build models to suit courses, which will never suit me as most of my models are four foot plus and don’t turn on a sixpence.>>

 >>

Mark Hawkins>>

[neil hpParticipant @neilhp]

Am I alone in thinking that there should be something more to give satisfaction in running our boats in a way that represents their prototypes or am I just whistling in the dark?

 

 

sadly, Colin, at times you have to be thankfull for what you have, closest at hand

I have been a member of both Fleetwood clubs, and in my days as a member I did my utmost to motivate good sailing days, with good and realistic courses, butafter a time, even me with my thick skin and outspoken personality, decided it was like flogging a dead horse…..

you know the scenario, the brave few catering for the majority time and time again, with little help from the majority of club members,

then boaters from away would turn up to an event and refuse point blank to sail because it was salt water, or there was more than a ripple on the water.

and after a long day you’d be left to row the boat out, alone to collect the bouys and put them away.

It had a greatly dissiliusioning effect upon me as a “club” member, and these days I just like to sail my boat, when and where I can find a nice quiet pond, and can’t fall out with anyone….no politics, no cup hunters, and definately no worries about what others think.

[Colin BishopModerator @colinbishop34627]

I have to agree with Dave and others that setting out a course does represent an overhead in termsof effort by the host club. And of course, as is the way of the world, in most clubs the “active” members are very much in the minority but that’s always been the case.

 

Also, setting out a course in a wadeable lake is much easier than if the water is 3 metres deep. Back in the 70s and 80s at my Berrylands club we held our regattas in a lido swimming pool, now long filled in. We had the course layout down to a fine art with sections of scaffolding poles in the handrail sections along the sides of the pool acting as anchors to suspend lines across the width of the pool from which buoys and other hazards such as canals, icebergs and minefields (non working!) were suspended.  You could adjust the positioning of the hazards by reeling the lines in and out around the poles to get the right layout. The whole thing worked a treat. It really was state of the art and I’ve rarely seen anything to match it since. Once set up it was also very quick to deploy and to retrieve after the event..

 

The problem of making a course fair for all sizes of models was also tackled and this is an art which subsequently subsequently seems to have been lost.. The secret was to design the course on what might be termed a “psychological” ” basis whereby obstacles look more difficult than they actually are. The gate widths and turning spaces would be adequate for quite large models but the angle at which you viewed them meant that they looked smaller and you had to keep your nerve when negotiating them. This caught small boats just as much as bigger ones and resulted in a level playing field. Obviously, setting up this sort of course does require a certain amount of skill, not to mention low cunning, but it actually did work very well in practice and, with a few exceptions, the ability to set up a course of this type appears to have been lost which is rather a shame considering all the work that originally went into developing the concept.

 

The idea of designing small agile steering boats to beat the larger models is hardly new and the “psychological” course went a long way towards offsetting their perceived advantage. 

 

Colin

Edited By Colin Bishop on 16/10/2009 20:48:07

[Paul TParticipant @pault84577]

I imagine that this subject boils down to “Whatever floats your boat” if you will forgive the pun.

 

Paul

[David WooleyParticipant @davidwooley82563]

Good points there Colin.   I noted that the Scale National this year was just that . The course was very cleverly arranged in the way you explained.  Yet large models , and there where a  number could  navigate the course . It was not an eye sight test  nor was it   the   proverbial camel through the eye of the needle , if I may use the experssion. Above all it was well thought  through and and   a  challenge as you would expect at the Nationals but altogether worthy of the Nationals .

Dave Wooley

Edited By David Wooley on 22/10/2009 11:06:46

[Colin BishopModerator @colinbishop34627]

Glad to hear that the principles haven’t been entirely lost Dave – a lot of effort went into establishing them originally.

 

Colin

[Andy BaileyParticipant @andybailey80218]

Though i enjoy a free sail as much as most i do tend to get bored after a short while, I was chairman of a club where i used to live and have to agree that its hard work setting courses when you are doing it alone , the membership turning up just as i climbed out of the pond there were a few souls who would help stow everything away at the end of the day and then you have the problem that you cant please all of the people all of the time ! so i take my hat off to all that are involved in setting up courses wherever they are , back to the point , i enjoy sailing a boat that i have built around a course , nothing for me beats the feeling of a good round and the banter that is bound to erupt with other competitors.

regards Andy

[Colin BishopModerator @colinbishop34627]

At some clubs you can find a harbour setup attached to the side of the water where you can dock your boat. This can be quite fun too.

 

Colin

[Andy BaileyParticipant @andybailey80218]

Never seen one of those Colin but may well do next year im in the middle of building a 1/12 scale cygnus longliner at the moment and hope to do several steering comps next year

 Regards Andy

[Colin BishopModerator @colinbishop34627]

Here is a dock arrangement at Wicksteed Park, Kettering which is used to host guest regattas as well as those of the local club.

 

Colin

 

[Bob Abell 2Participant @bobabell2]

This one was seen at the Colwyn Bay show

Bob

[Mark HawkinsParticipant @markhawkins71181]

Here are a couple of pictures from Stoke Navy day.

 

Mark

 

[Mark HawkinsParticipant @markhawkins71181]

The Burton club water goes from 1 foot to 12 foot very rapidly, so we have used a system of four weighted ropes with buoys either tied directly onto the rope with a couple of feet of string or kitchen drainage pipe frames. This whole system can be set up in the garden at home then transported and assembled very quickly at the waters edge. It only needs one person to row out with one end that is weighted with a brick and drop it over the side. The second person then pulls the other end of the rope to line up the course and tie it off.

 

You can get a good course using this system, that can be easily altered to keep everyone on their toes.

 

Mark

 

[Colin BishopModerator @colinbishop34627]

Great posts guys – keep them coming!

 

Colin

[Andy BaileyParticipant @andybailey80218]

Really neat system you have there Mark  , thanks to all for the great pics ,lots of hard work gone into making the courses and docks that good 

Regards Andy

[Andy BaileyParticipant @andybailey80218]

Just one other thing , how do you guys that run these courses encourage the less experienced modeler  to have a go . In my spell as chairman some years ago we started setting the courses up on freesail days we were surprised how many had a go at a course made up in there own head seemed to work pretty well 

Regards Andy

[Mark HawkinsParticipant @markhawkins71181]

Hi Andy,

 

I cannot take the credit for the docks, they belong to the Potteries Modl boat club. But the rest we have built up over the years.

 

Mark

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