Returning modeller

[James Hill 5Participant @jameshill5]

Hi, I`m a new to this forum, 1st posting, so apologies if I get anything wrong.

After a number of years doing other modelling interests I`ve bought a boat back into the daylight with the hope of getting it up and running.

The model is a scratch build of Surfury, built from the Model Maker plan. Once built, I never got round to running it but I`d like to try and make that happen.

The motor ( already installed ) is a Graupner 700BB Turbo 9.6V 3307.. Controller is a Futaba Attack 2DR. Rudder servo is a Futaba S3003. Prop is a 2 blade Octura 45mm plastic one, direct drive from the motor.

This is where I`m now at a loss. With the passing of time , things have changed and battery technology especially so my problem now is,which type of battery to use. The boat at the moment weighs 2.6 kg. I`m not looking for high speed in particular, just something that would make it look reasonable on the water.

I`ve also got to get my head round connecting all the electrical side of things so will be taking a look in my other boat , a TID Tug to see how I put things together back in the day.

Hopefully I haven`t rambled on too much but I thought I`d ask about the power supply in the hope someone might have a suggestion .

Many thanks,

Jim.

[James Hill 5Participant @jameshill5]

[John W EParticipant @johnwe]

hi there

I also built this model many moons ago. My version was I.C. powered by an Enya 19 glow. The problem with the Surfury model is that it was basically designed to go 'fast' in a straight line. It doesn't like cornering very well and anything below plaining speed – it is like a 'waddling duck' to say the least. I have plans to rebuild it some time in the future along with many other projects – but – I was thinking I may go for the brushless motors this time. What size, I am not sure yet. Also, I was going to go Lipo technology batteries – and this may be all new to yourself – but – if not – I would suggest this is the way you go for this type of hull.

If you are dead certain sticking with the original motor that you have – I would be inclined to go for NiCad technology 9.6 volt and something like 5000 mAh doubled up – giving you 10 amp for longer running time. Have a look on Component shops website under ACtion they can give you a good idea of what you require for speed controllers etc.

John

[John W EParticipant @johnwe]

[ashley needhamParticipant @ashleyneedham69188]

James. Welcome to the forum.

Slight flinger slip by John in that Nicads are now banned, and the current tech is Nimh (but he knows that of course!).

Certainly a 5000 mAhr one will be ok, doubling up will give you more endurance but they are heavy beasts so one should do at a time. Need to get a Nimh capable charger as well.

I know people are going to say that you should get a Lipo, but I think for your use a Nimh will be best (stand by for opposing views). A Lipo will of course be lighter and make it go faster… What battery does the tid tug use?? can there be crossover between models battery wise?

I also suggest that the prop might be a bit big? but only a test and the use of a watt meter will show you whats going on…(overloading motor or whatever)

Ashley

[James Hill 5Participant @jameshill5]

Thank you both for your replies and interesting information.

As the motor is already installed i`ll probably stick with that as a starting point. If things work when it eventually gets in the water and I can see how it performs I can then think about changes. Running this type of boat is all new to me.

Ashley, the T I D tug is powered by a six volt sealed battery and wouldn`t really fit in hull anyway so that`s a no no .

I`ve had good fun with the tug over the years. Just a thought, It`s ballasted with 20lb of lead and it`s got me wondering if I could substitute that for something else, as, if anything should happen , I wouldn`t be happy with that lead in the water.

I`ll follow up your suggestions regarding the electrical side of Surfury and see if I can put some pictures up.It might be a while as I`m not a computer wizard! I`ll have a look at the forum on the subject.

Many thanks gents,

Regards

Jim.

[James Hill 5Participant @jameshill5]

And thank you for the welcome.

Jim.

[Colin BishopModerator @colinbishop34627]

You could use the ligheter LiPo batteries but you will beed the right pack and the correct charger. They also need a bit more care and maintenance than NiMH batteries.

Colin

[ashley needhamParticipant @ashleyneedham69188]

I think you may have trouble finding something as heavy as the lead to fit in the space in your tug. Gold would do it of course…

Sorry..I meant by the battery/tug question that the new Surfury batty might be able to be used in the tug as well. “Compact” or square formation packs can be obtained but the tug motor may not handle 10v or so. Obviously the lead batt is no good for a speedboat!

Ashley

[harry smith 1Participant @harrysmith1]

Hi James

The Graupner Speed 700 series handle up to 14.4 volts, so you can use 3S (11.1 volt)Lipo batteries.

These charge up to 12.4 volts on full charge.

As to the TID a 2S(7.2 volt) Lipo would be OK.

Add some more ballast.

I find the Lipo's work great displacement hull and are easier to get in and out of small spaces.

A good balance charger and safety bag is required, plus a voltage which also tells you the battery voltage.

As for Speed controllers, I use the 60 Amp Hobbywing Quicrun which has simple link setting.

Harry Smith

[ashley needhamParticipant @ashleyneedham69188]

Hi Harry. Nice summation!

Like the look of those esc, and as you obviously have no probs with them , will get a couple..cheap enough.

Ashley

[James Hill 5Participant @jameshill5]

Morning Harry, thank you for your reply. More welcome information to digest. I can see now how much has changed since I was last modelling boats.

As for the TID. there`s` no problem with that power wise as I run it using a 6v lead acid sealed battery driving a 540 motor through a gearbox I made myself and so far it`s worked well. All that`s required on that is a good clean and service various parts and it should be good to go.

Many thanks,

Jim.

[James Hill 5Participant @jameshill5]

Hi all, further to my earlier first post , I`ve been looking at various batteries, speed controllers, battery chargers etc.

I quite like the look of a Vapex 5000mA NiMH 9.6v battery, a Vapex smart easy charger, charging 4.8v—-12v NiMH race batteries.

Speed controller either an MTRONICKS Viper marine15 boat ESC or the Hobbywing 60amp Quicrun, as suggested by Harry Smith earlier.

Is this a combination that would work or a non starter? It would be nice to know as boat electrics at the present time are something I`m trying to catch up on and understand.

Can I also ask if the cable connections are compatible or would they need sorting as well bearing in mind my controller is a Futaba. I don`t know how much that side of things have changed over the years.

Many thanks,

Jim.

[Dave MilbournParticipant @davemilbourn48782]

It would be nice to know as boat electrics at the present time are something I`m trying to catch up on and understand.

Jim

This article was written with folk such as yourself in mind Model Boat electrics Since it was written I've been told by others that it's actually rather useful

An updated version of the article 'Radio GaGa, first published a few years ago and now entitled 'The Naming of Parts' was in the pipeline when MB had to close down. It should appear in the near future and describes the nature and functions of transmitter, receiver, servos and battery as well as a few assorted add-ons and some suggestions about what type of radio you should look for.

Do take care when ordering your speed controller – there are TWO Hobbywing 60A Marine Speed Controllers. The one you require is the brushed-motor version. I think the Viper 15A might be a bit borderline for that motor. For batteries, cable, connectors, chargers and all that sort of equipment you won't find a better UK supplier than this company Component Shop

BTW your Futaba Attack is compatible with all current R/C electronic devices such as speed controllers, so you'll not need to change any plugs.

Dave M

Edited By Dave Milbourn on 06/07/2020 14:21:29

Edited By Dave Milbourn on 06/07/2020 14:27:33

[James Hill 5Participant @jameshill5]

Hi Dave, many thanks for your reply.

I was looking through the Component Shop website before my last post and then posting my list.

Not sure , but I think the speed controller was the brushed type but I`ll check. When it`s time to buy, I would certainly put forward my thinking and listen to any other suggestions they might give me.

Thank you for the info on the Futaba. I`d seen mention of other connectors, eg Tamiya, so just wondered.

Can`t think of anything else to ask at the moment.

Jim.

[ashley needhamParticipant @ashleyneedham69188]

Jim. You were not meaning battery connectors were you? There are several of these, easily swapped.

Ashley

[Dave MilbournParticipant @davemilbourn48782]

Posted by ashley needham on 07/07/2020 15:49:07:

Jim. You were not meaning battery connectors were you? There are several of these, easily swapped.

Ashley

See photos 3 and 4 of the article on model boat electrics.

Dave M

[James Hill 5Participant @jameshill5]

Ashley and Dave M, apologies for not replying sooner.

The connectors I was referring to were the ones on the ends of servos and speed controllers etc. I have a Traxxas speed controller on the tug connecting with an Acoms rudder servo and they are a fit. Obviously Futaba make a slightly different connector which aren`t compatible. I n my ignorance I first thought that they were all the same style.

Dave M, I read through your article on Model Boat electrics and I too found it very useful, so many thanks for that.

Thank you gents for your continued help,

Jim.

[Malcolm FraryParticipant @malcolmfrary95515]

Servo connectors use the industry standard spacing for such things, i.e. 0.1". That standard made life relatively easy when designing circuits for stripboard because you could draw on 0.1" graph paper.

While the pins always have the same spacing, and usually the same wire order, some manufacturers like to be a bit different. To that end, they add a bit of extra plastic to the plug. But we are modellers and we are mostly allowed access to sharp knives, and a plastic tab is easily removed.

The difficult part follows – first, remembering that the black wire goes to the outside edge, and then inserting the thing on the pins rather than between them.

[James Hill 5Participant @jameshill5]

Hi Malcolm, thank you for your reply.

That`s another bit of information that was new to me.

Jim.

[Dave Cooper 6Participant @davecooper6]

Back-tracking the thread a little, and just a quick addendum on the NiCad thing….my latest information is that whilst they are illegal to sell, they are still legal to use. I use one in a RC slope soarer glider powering just the Rx and two control servos.

Having said that, they do suffer from the 'memory' and 'black-wire corrosion' problems and are not very planet-friendly !

I think they still have a use on the bench as a temporary power source for testing, but, one by one, my models (including the little RAF launch) are now converted to LiPo power.

Connectors: (Power) I suppose everyone has their favourite(s) – I am slowly standardising on the "XT60" type, but have gold-plated 'bullet' connectors in one model. Both work well. I find the bullets are easier if you need a quick change. (Radio) I'm slowly standardising on the Futaba colour code as I find this the least confusing…

Good luck with your project,

Dave C

[James Hill 5Participant @jameshill5]

Hi Dave,

Thankyou , more information to take on board. I have to say, there have been a lot more changes in the model boat world than I realised since I last dabbled , especially on the power and electrical side and I`m grateful for all the help.

Many thanks,

Jim.

[harry smith 1Participant @harrysmith1]

Hi All

I use the gold bullet connectors between the motor (brush and brushless) and ESC and XT60 's between the battery and ESC.

Harry Smith

[Dave Cooper 6Participant @davecooper6]

Hi Jim

There seems like a lot to learn at the start ! The best advice I can give is to find what works for you.

Inevitably, you will make purchases which don't work out. Put these in the 'spares' box – they'll come in handy one day…

Two further bits of advice :-

1. Join a club – benefits too long to list !

2. Test on the bench first (especially battery life), then in the bath – leaks, power test, rudder and prop under load etc.

Most importantly – have fun !

Dave C

[James Hill 5Participant @jameshill5]

Hi Dave,

Reading your last message matches what I had intended doing.

The nearest model boat club for me is Basingstoke ( about 10 miles ). I also live about 2 miles from the Basingstoke canal, which is where I`ve sailed the tug. I intend to see what is occuring with the boat club during the present situation and will go from there.

I`m pretty certain mistakes will happen and things will end up in the spares box!

I`ve settled on a Vapex 9.6v 5000mah battery and suitable charger from Component shop and a Viper Mtroniks Auto Sport 20 speed controller from Cornwall model boats. How this all matches up, time will tell but I`ve taken the plunge.

Testing will be done as you rightly pointed out long before It`s tried outside.

Fun will be had. I enjoy making the models as much as running them so look forward to when things are completed.

Jim.

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