Help -please- Steam powered vessel ‘mystery’

[STEVE HILLSParticipant @stevehills89294]

[STEVE HILLSParticipant @stevehills89294]

Hi everyone, this is my very first post anywhere, and the third attempt, so please go easy on me!

I am really out of my depth ( forgive the pun) with a recent anniversary present- a very old and tatty hull and deck plus bits ,of a wooden ,hand carved steam powered vessel . it came with no superstructure, or very much of its engine etc, but with what clues I have and the help of those who will know far more than me, i hope to get it back to something like its original design.

I tinker with antique pond yachts, this one is a real extension!

I suppose my first queries are: what type of boat was it meant to be, and then what sort of engine powered it- I have a few images of course and am trying to load them.

The deck appears to be old,thin cut pine,with two access holes and two holes for masts, one mast to take a gaff sail, the other appears to have no sail rigging- they look old and original.

inside is a metal 'boiler?the boat seems to have been custom made to take this originally as it fits snugly into a socket with the same chisel marks as for the hull.

the underside of the deck has the same metal-zinc? as the 'boiler'

There is a shaft for a screw and the brass screw too, though not fitted.I realise that it is not easy to tell from the images ,but I really need a little help with this one– anyone?!

[Andy StonemanParticipant @andystoneman15177]

Hi Steve

Welcome to Model boats forum, Im pretty sure that you will get help from the rest of the crew on Model Boats. there a very helpful bunch of guys.

I can't tell you anything about the boat you have but I may be able to throw some light on the machinery side of things. Firstly the boiler indicates a fairly simple type being a meths burner type for fuel, It looks like to be quite old and has gone through a few tough times in its past. As to the engine, I would think most likely it would have a small wobbler type of engine, something similar to what you might find on a Mamod type road roller or most other things mamod. . As for the base it does look like it could zinc as its an easily malleable material to fit into the hull. I hope this may help,

Andy

[STEVE HILLSParticipant @stevehills89294]

Andy, thank you very much for your advice- really appreciated.

I had not thought of a meths type arrangement- shows how little I know about this type of craft-especially their power units, – fascinating!

So, I am right in thinking that the large'zinc' insert is likely to be a tank for the meths, with a boiler of some sort sitting on top of the series of vent holes?

The little ,separate 'boiler' ? may well be unrelated to the boat?

As to age, I am guessing turn of the 20th C give or take ?

Will now look up meths burner types and wobbler engines- thanks for the leads, learning all the time!

Regards, Steve

[Richard SimpsonParticipant @richardsimpson88330]

Hi Steve, firstly welcome to the forum. You certainly seem to have started off with quite a handfull!

As Andy has said very difficult to date or identify but pine was a popular construction material in post war years as it was relatively cheap and available. Most other woods remained unavailable for a lot longer. Carved hulls were not uncommon for home made models whereas such factory produced items, such as Basset Lowke could be tin plate or bread and butter pine construction.

Your first picture is what remains of the plant with the simple boiler still in place on the base. The engine, as Andy suggests would almost certainly be a simple oscillator of a Mamod or Wilesco type. Probably non reversible and non self starting so you would get the engine running on the bank, set the rudder position to give you a wide sweeping turn and hope the model returns to the bank before the engine stops!

Your options are to either refurbish the existing boiler and base and add a modern engine from either Mamod or Wilesco or, what I would go for, is to polish up and keep the old boiler and base as a separate item for display purposes and buy a complete simple boiler plant to replace it.

One of your first decisions will be whether to maintain the original operating philosophy, i.e. point and go, or whether to add a more modern reversible self starting twin oscillator and boiler plant. Check out the Clyde Plant from Miniature Steam in Australia.

Lots to think about and decide before you lay a finger on it. You might decide to use as much as possible of the original and simply replace the engine, in which case check out the 'Tiny' engine. I used one of these in conjunction with a Tony Green boiler a few years ago to make a simple point and go type of plant.

Good luck with the model. There is plenty of help here if you need it.

[Ray Wood 3Participant @raywood3]

Hi Steve,

Oh dear what a state, but is your aim to refurbish this boat into a working model or tidy it up as an ornament?

Some of it's current charm is the aged/antique look, to repair and re-finish would be quite a task, and to fit a new steam plant & radio control we are talking £££'s maybe?

Your photo of the boiler has the ossilator engine in the back ground with the crankshaft & flywheel.

It does appear to have a metal strip keel attached for stability?

Regards Ray

Edited By Ray Wood 2 on 26/11/2019 10:36:06

[STEVE HILLSParticipant @stevehills89294]

Richard, that was so helpful and welcoming, thank you.

I certainly seem to have tapped into a reserve of experience ,and boy do I need it!

As with all things, the more you dig into something , the more you realise how little you know!!

I suspect my wife got me this boat to keep me out of the way and it looks like it will work!

Plenty to think over in your comments, and at present I am just getting to know the vessel, so no real decisions as yet regarding the type of engine, though I am keen to keep as close to the original as I can within reason.

looking at the remains of the 'plant' the tank has split along the seam- I think your idea of keeping it as a separate item and fitting some thing newer, but along those lines,might be a favourite at present.

Love the idea of point and go and would not want to fit RC.

[STEVE HILLSParticipant @stevehills89294]

Ray , thanks for your input, appreciated as is all help- you can see that I will need to tap into all the experience you guys have and so happy that there is help out there!

To answer your questions:I would dearly love to get it working, time is not an issue, but costs will have to be spread.

I would like to retain as much as is practicable of the original, but as the other guys suggest there is not much of it left and what is, is not in a good state, so that part may be replacement in the spirit of what might have been.

The superstructure is the biggest mystery and I think I can get on with that once I have a cleaer idea of what is might have been based on. It seems quite a simple boat in many ways, no evidence of holes for stanchions etc, which leads me perhpas wrongly in the direction of a working boat, its all guess work I suppose, but will not plunge in until I know more.

So, I want to get it going, do not want to loose the patina etc which is to me an attraction, so would not want to strip it right back to wood and am thinking along the lines of a working/fishing type craft, but would really welcome the thoughts of others on that aspect.

Thanks so much again, Steve

[STEVE HILLSParticipant @stevehills89294]

Ray, forgot to add that yes there is indeed a lead strip screwed to the keel.

All there is of what I think must be the engine is the brass flywheel and assembly, no pistons etc, but maybe I could reuse that in a rebuild…..

Steve

[Richard SimpsonParticipant @richardsimpson88330]

Steve, Just another passing thought. Its Sunday so they pass briefly!!

How about refurbishing the old plant purely cosmetically and by doing nothing more than cleaning and polishing. This could then sit in the model for display purposes. When you want to operate it you simply lift out the original plant and drop in a modern equivalent unit to give you the operational reliability on the pond. When you get home change the plant over again.

Have a look at a Tony Green boiler. They are small, nice and simple but have the added attraction of you lift the boiler up on a hinge to light the solid fuel tablet while the boiler is in the boat. This saves all the hazards of igniting the burner outside the model then trying to thread it under the boiler without it going out again. Connect that to either one of Tony's USE engines or, as I mentioned earlier a Tiny engine for a modern reliable plant.

[STEVE HILLSParticipant @stevehills89294]

Richard, these are good thoughts!

I do like the sound of a reliable power source and am not convinced that the original will ever get going without a serious overhaul ,loads of cash and even then not be too reliable .

I did look at the 'Tiny' set up and liked it,will certainly keep that one in mind.

Am grateful for your input -it helps to clarify thoughts and gives new directions .

Am curently working on simple hull repairs, it gives me time to get to know the vessel and think about what that superstructure might have been – leaning towards a steam drifter type, but it is a bit narrow in the beam….thanks again, Steve

[ashley needhamParticipant @ashleyneedham69188]

Steve. To some degree the topside will be dictated by the steam plant, all that heat and having the funnel in the right place for exhaust.

i would sort out the running bit first if it were mine, and think on the top after. Supposing of course you were flexible about the top and did not want to copy an actual vessel.

Like the idea of a lift out tray with a modern plant in it.

Ashley

[STEVE HILLSParticipant @stevehills89294]

Ashley, thank you for your ideas, very practical, I am trying to consider both plant and superstructure together, but you are so right about getting the plant in the right place.

'Am looking at a 'Tiny ' type plant as Richard suggested and alaso the Clyde , so will need to keep that in mind.

If I do go for a drifter type I suppose,as the funnel,etc is to the rear of the vessel,ti would all need to fit that end- quite a lot of room to play with at this empty stage, but I am sure that would soon fill up!

Thanks again – more food for thought, which is great!

Steve

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