Dyeing cotton sails

[Johannes JonesParticipant @johannesjones12331]

Hi all.

I’m building a Bearospace Emma (sprit rigged double ended sloop) and I want to dye the sails, terracotta if possible. They’re cotton, btw.

I had a look on the Dylon website, but they appear to have revamped their range. Sandy Beige is a possibility, but according to a Dylon person, they have nothing that approximates to terracotta. I’ve searched the web to try to find someone selling old Dylon stock, but no luck.

I’m wondering how other sailing boat enthusiasts, particularly Thames barge aficionados, are dealing with this problem.

I was chatting with Frank Parsons of Nylet several months ago, and I mentioned that I’d heard of tea being used to dye sails, and his response was that this is a fallacy. I’m wondering if other sail dyers have successfully used tea. I tried it on a scrap sail and it seemed to work okay, so I’m wondering what the problem is, if any. Any comments, anyone?

Any feedback would be welcome. Thanks in advance,

John Jones

[mmcp42Participant @mmcp42]

I wonder if dying with tea actually does work; but if the sails get wet, I suspect the tea colouring may run

no information, you understand, just a guess

maybe there’s a way to “fix” the colour

also if Dylon do a range of colours could you “mix your own”?

cheers

Mike

[Johannes JonesParticipant @johannesjones12331]

Hi Mike,

I’ve considered attempting to mix my own colours, but I don’t have the funds to buy many dyes and I think it might take more time than I’m willing to spend on it.  I haven’t dropped the idea completely though; it’s still on the list of possibilities.

I tried dyeing with about 10 teabags and one of my failed attempts at making a sail. The resulting colour is quite pleasing, a sort of milky coffee beige. I too have concerns about its fastness(?). Frank Parsons (of Nylet) suggested a tablespoon of salt in hot water which is then allowed to cool and immersing the still wet sail in that. He wasn’t sure if it would fix the colour, though, as tea isn’t a dye as such.

I tried redyeing the sail with more teabags to see if I could darken the colour, but it didn’t make mush difference.

One thing about using teabags is that if the colour did fade, it would be no big deal to remove the sails from the boat and brew them up again.

The main reason I want to dye the sails is that when I’d finished the first one, I noticed how grubby it had become from constant handling (I’m sewing the sails by hand), and also the black bolt rope shows through. Washing at 95 deg. C, removed most of the dirt and the pencil lines, but the bolt rope still showed through more than i like.

Thanks for the reply, btw. It all helps complete the picture of what I’ve got myself into.

Cheers,

John

[mmcp42Participant @mmcp42]

Hello John

I’d love to see the sails if you have any pictures please!

cheers

Mike

[Johannes JonesParticipant @johannesjones12331]

I’ve taken some photos, all I have to do now is get them on my PC. I’ll get back to you when I’ve done that.

Cheers,

John

[Johannes JonesParticipant @johannesjones12331]

[Johannes JonesParticipant @johannesjones12331]

Okay, I couldn’t work out how to add text after I’d uploaded the photos, so they’re in a separate post. I uploaded 2, one of the sails with the tea-dyed jib on top of the main so you can see the difference in colour, and one of the boat for which I’m making them.

The mainsail is a fail because for some reason, it came out undersized, and the jib was a fail because, as it was my first attempt at sail making and I hadn’t quite figured out what I was doing. Also, It’s the wrong shape, and this time it was my fault. I’m using these attempts to experiment on.

Anyway, hopefully you can get some idea of what tea can do to cotton. NB, the stitches are polyester and, as such, don’t take dye.

Enjoy.

John

PS the dark patches on the dyed sail are scorch marks from when I nearly let the saucepan boil dry.

[mmcp42Participant @mmcp42]

wow! very impressive!

would you consider changing to cotton thread as the white polyester really stands out, or try beige polyester!!

cheers

Mike

[Johannes JonesParticipant @johannesjones12331]

Hadn’t really given it much thought until now. I originally intended the sails to be white, and it was only when i saw how grubby the mainsail looked, even after washing,  after I’d handled it for many hours and every stitch had been pulled through under my thumb (to avoid knots) thus picking up mucho grubbiness along the way, that I thought about changing the colour. I suppose it would make my poor stitching less noticeable (Is that what you were politely trying to say? 🙂 ). I shall give it some thought. Have to say, I quite like the contrasting stitches, so maybe the target to aim for is better stitching rather than hidden stitching.

Cheers,

John

[mmcp42Participant @mmcp42]

others might think that

I couldn’t possibly comment!

cheers

Mike

[Johannes JonesParticipant @johannesjones12331]

Ha!

I should perhaps add that the dyed sail was treated twice, once with 6 decaf teabags and again with 4 teabags (all I had left: I’m a coffee drinker) to deepen the colour. I added a spoonful of salt at the end of each boil to try to fix the dye. Also, to see how much colour I’d lose, I soaked the sail in cold water for several hours. Didn’t make much, if any, difference.

I should also point out that I have no idea what I’m doing here, so don’t take any of it as being the correct method.

John.

[Dave ReedParticipant @davereed72029]

Hi John,

I used the same tea dying technique as you, including the salt. It was to dye a rope wrap (cotton twine) around a carley float on the back of another boat. It’s been out on the water a few times with no sign of fading.

Laid across the top in pic is the undyed twine for comparison.

Dave

[mmcp42Participant @mmcp42]

John

if it works – it’s correct 🙂

cheers

Mike

[Johannes JonesParticipant @johannesjones12331]

Dave: the change in colour makes all the difference; white cotton would have looked wrong, IMHO. Encouraging that it seems to last. Thank you. Also, as I said in an earlier post, if it does fade, I can always whip the sails off and re-dye them. I just love the smell of stewed tea, especially when coupled with the delicate aroma of scorched cotton. 🙁

Mike: Spot on. All I have to do now is make sure it does work!

Cheers both,

John

[Johannes JonesParticipant @johannesjones12331]

Looking at the photo of the sails and at the actual sails, I think the colour has darkened over the last 30 hours or so. It isn’t what I’d describe as a milky coffee colour any more. Could the dye (tea stain) be oxidising or something, I wonder?

John

[mmcp42Participant @mmcp42]

John

maybe final stages of drying out?

cheers

Mike

[Johannes JonesParticipant @johannesjones12331]

Mike,

That seems entirely possible.

Cheers,

John

[Stephen GarradParticipant @stephengarrad28964]

How about black coffee, that would certainly make them darker.

Stephen

[Johannes JonesParticipant @johannesjones12331]

I’ll give it a go. Any idea how well it would last?

John

[Richard SimpsonParticipant @richardsimpson88330]

When you say ‘Terracotta’ I’m assuming this is the sort of effect you are looking for:

Unfortunately I don’t think any sort of household product is going to give you either the depth of colour, the opacity or the longevity you are after.  The only way you will be able to acheive such a colour will either be with a manufactured proper fabric dye or, as was the case with this model, buy yourself a piece of ready coloured cotton cloth to make the sails from.  A piece of cloth big enough for a model is surprisingly cheap and I’m sure would give you far better lasting results.  Check this out:

 

Terracotta Cloth

[Colin BishopModerator @colinbishop34627]

A search online for terracott dye brings up quite a lot of options altough some are described as burnt orange. Try Etsy

or:

https://www.corkwood-knittingandcraftsupplies.com/25g-terracotta-procion-mx-new-shade-718-p.asp

Colin

[Johannes JonesParticipant @johannesjones12331]

Richard: That’s exactly what I was looking for. 5 metres ordered. Thank you. Btw, that’s a nice looking boat. Are the plans available anywhere?

Colin: As you can see above, for this query, Richard has come up trumps. I will visit the address you gave me for future reference. Thank you.

I think I was blinded to the possibility of finding material that was already the colour I was looking for because I thought buying cotton intended specifically for model sails from Nylet, and then using Dylon products was the way to go, not realising that Dylon had completely changed their colours.

Once I’d bought the cloth (@ £10 per square metre, btw), I was stuck in that groove and didn’t consider using the 6 square metres of cotton to make hankies or something and finding cloth already in the colour I wanted.

Both sites bookmarked.

Thanks again both,

John

[Colin BishopModerator @colinbishop34627]

Yes, if you can get the cloth in the right shade then that’s the way to go. The terra cotta colour sails always look great on the pond.

Colin

[Richard SimpsonParticipant @richardsimpson88330]

Glad you got sorted.  My model is very old and was originally a home made item, I have no idea what it was built from.  It was refurbished just before I bought it and I wanted to do one or two modifications to it.  I never got around to it of course and it now sits in the attic!  One day.  It is a charming little model of very simple design and little performance but I was just captivated by its age and simple character.  I did have some history somewhere but long since lost it.  I might try to dig it out one day.

[Stephen GarradParticipant @stephengarrad28964]

Looking at the colour of Richards sails which is spot on I think, that’s the colour of the water based red oxide paint I was using earlier. No reason why it couldn’t be watered down to make a dye I would have thought. As a paint it would be far to thick and make the sails stiff, but watered down??????

Stephen

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