Christmas Present

[Bob WilsonParticipant @bobwilson59101]

[Bob WilsonParticipant @bobwilson59101]

For Christmas this year, my wife got me a set of "ship curves" to assist me in my plan drawing and amateur nautical draughtsmanship in which I am becoming increasingly interested. I know that this sort of thing will be regarded as rather "Bush League" by some (drawing by using drawing pens and instruments on white card to produce the plans rather than the latest CAD software), but I never was much of a "whizz kid," and doing things myself, rather than assembling kits or using fancy software, has always given me a far greater degree of satisfaction that I might have had by "following the crowd!"

Merry Christmas

Bob

[Dave MilbournParticipant @davemilbourn48782]

Bob

I never knew such things existed. I wish I'd found out about them 50 years ago; it would have saved me using the edge of my shoe for drawing aerofoil sections and bulkheads. I eventually discovered French Curves but the largest is only about 10" end-to-end.

CAD's not so soul-less. A desktop PC and monitor takes up a lot less room than a Double Elephant drawing board and its stand. I get a kick from sending out an electronic file over the internet and having a full set of CNC-cut ply parts arrive in the post three days later. It's almost magical!

Season's thingies.

Dave M

[harry smith 1Participant @harrysmith1]

Hi Dave and Bob

I thought CAD was Cardboard Assisted Drawing not Computer Assisted Drawing !!!

Nice set of curves mate !!!

Harry Smith

[Bob WilsonParticipant @bobwilson59101]

Thanks – There have been ship curves for well over 100 years and they are very useful, but before today, I only had one long one, plus some French curves. I don't use a drawing board, I use a sheet of three ply. I can still send them out over the internet though, but prefer to do everything myself – My brain, patience and cheque book will not stretch to CAD! – Bob

[Colin BishopModerator @colinbishop34627]

Very interesting Bob, they seem to be very comprehensive and look rather expensive.

Were they produced using CAD I wonder…..

Colin

[Bob WilsonParticipant @bobwilson59101]

They were about £30 from Ebay. You can get them single, or in sets like this. Single long ones are called "Curved dress rulers" Ship curves have been around much longer than CAD, but maybe the Chinese used CAD to produce these. Years ago, they were made of wood and called "Copenhagen Curves or "Ship Curves" specifically designed for nautical draughtsmanship –

Bob

[Chris FellowsParticipant @chrisfellows72943]

I've got a set of French Curves from my drawing board days but as Dave says they aren't big enough and the curves aren't really suitable for boats. I don't think I've used them at all for my models and didn't use them that much for producing architectural drawings.

Someone in another post on this or another forum mentioned ships curves some time ago and I meant to get some then but forgot so thanks for the reminder. I use the carbon paper method of transferring my drawings to ply and they will be great for that.

I've kept my parallel motion drawing board for years thinking it would be useful for model boats etc. but haven't used it so reluctantly I'm going to get rid of it, it just takes up so much space.

Chris

[Bob WilsonParticipant @bobwilson59101]

I use them for drawing plans of large ships where there are lots of curves. Nothing looks worse than straight lines on the braces of a sailing ship. A gentle curve really improves the drawing.

Bob

[Chris FellowsParticipant @chrisfellows72943]

Thanks to you Bob I've purchased a similar set of curves which will come in very useful.

I've dismantled my drawing board and taken the heavy steel angle base and parallel motion down the tip. Having owned and used the board for over 40 years (it was second-hand when I bought it and used in engineering) I couldn't let that go and it doesn't take up much room stood on end. At some point I will probably cut it down and use it as a building board as it is obviously lovely and flat.

Chris

[Paul TParticipant @pault84577]

A philosophical question:

Is modern better than vintage?

Think before answering

Paul

[Dave MilbournParticipant @davemilbourn48782]

"Better" is a very subjective word, Doc. Personally I hate the phone in any shape or form but I suspect you're casting your net wider than that.

On that wider question I think there's room for both vintage and modern, as long as you don't sacrifice the improvements in just about every aspect of our modern life brought about by technological progress on the altar of nostalgia and sentiment. I'd love to own a 1970 Rolls Royce Silver Shadow but I'd drive my 2015 Toyota everyday for preference. It's nothing like as beautiful or classy but it returns a bit more than 7mpg!

As for music? Gimme vintage every time!

DM

[Paul TParticipant @pault84577]

Hello Dave

Yes you are correct about a wider question, the phones are a representation of the growth of technology during my working life.

But instead of comparing a Rolls with a Toyota try substituting the vintage phone with a drawing board and the modern phone with a CAD system.

I read Bobs posting and started thinking about my early days in front of a drawing board and then wondered about how the advance of technology had changed my working life.

Good or bad………I really can't decide

Paul

ps. 1960 Bentley S2 4 door

[Bob WilsonParticipant @bobwilson59101]

When it comes to telephones, I really couldn't care less! I have a mobile phone that can dod telephone calls or text messages. I have never sent a text message on it, and none that I have ever received have been necessary, or required a reply. I only use it if I wish to make a telephone call when I am out and about. If I am not making a call, it is switched off! If I ever lost it, or it got grabbed, it would not worry me unduly, as there is nothing secret in it, and it only cost a few pounds anyway! Useful, but not indispensable!

Bob

[Dave MilbournParticipant @davemilbourn48782]

Paul

I wouldn't go back to using a drawing board now that I can use CAD. OK, so there's no real substitute for being able to see a drawing unfold in real time and at full-size, but I also remember that I had to stand outside my shed in order to see both ends of the T260 fuselage drawing on my board. Then there's the hassle of having to scratch out errors on an inked drawing with a scalpel, or having the roof leak overnight and ruin a finshed work…. and rescaling meant redrawing rather than three clicks of a mouse. My Rotring pens and Swann-Morton #15 blades were retired a long time ago, and the Double Elephant board and stand went to the charity shop.

Oy vey – it's AutoCAD for me every time, but fair play to Bob Wilson. He is after all the doyen of his chosen subject and medium and his work is only to be marvelled at.

Dave M

Life's too short to stand toe-to-toe with you about dream cars. After all, if you ever got your dream car then you'd only dream about a different one.

Edited By Dave Milbourn on 10/01/2020 19:19:31

[Paul TParticipant @pault84577]

Bob

How did the changes in radio technology affect your life during your service in the merchant navy. Did the advancements help or hinder your professional life ?

Dave

Sometimes I missed the simplicity of the board but just imagine what I could have done with CAD technology back in the late 70s, it would have been total science fiction.

Paul

I am seriously thinking of buying a Rover P5, a nice affordable classic with plenty of power.

Edited By Paul T on 10/01/2020 19:24:41

[Bob WilsonParticipant @bobwilson59101]

Progress both affected me, and did not affect me at sea. I qualified in 1960, before transistors even came into the syllabus, and fully understood valve circuits, and could service them easily. Same for radar, but I didn't take my radar certificate until 1968, qualifying in the last exam before valves were taken out of the syllabus. I progressed from colliers to ocean liners without much fuss, and in 1973, was 2nd out of 4 aboard RMS Pendennis Castle, a large mail steamer on the UK – South Africa run. The company then sent me on an Advanced Marine Electronics course to the Southampton College of Technology. It was totally beyond me to understand any of the theory, although I put in a lot of effort. After three months of the six month course, I gave up and walked out. I was told by the college head,that my career was in ruins, and I would end up a failure – but I didn't care! I decided there and then that never again would I study the theory of electronics. Initially, much to everyones' surprise, I got promoted to chief radio officer on board the mailship RMS Good Hope Castle, where I served for two years, developing a greater dislike for the increasing amount of electronic junk that was being foisted on us, although I could still manage all the servicing by experience and guesswork, and that didn't go down well with the "whizz kids!" The company decided to get out of shipping in 1977 and sold all the passenger liners, and began running down the cargo fleet. I resigned and moved to a tramp company that had no interest in sending me to college, and served in three ships with them. The first a 4-year-old bulk carrier, followed by a newbuild at Cammell Lairds, Birkenhead, and then another brand new cargo ship fresh from the Hiroshima shipyards. In 1979, I discovered an obscure Cornish company that had obtained a small 3,150 ton Canadian coaster, 16 years old, and got the British Government contract to take over the Cape Mail passenger cargo service from the defunct Union-Castle Mail Steamship Co. I managed to get the job, where I found to my delight that the company could not care less about my lack of fancy electronic diplomas. By 1990, the ship was 27 years old, and worn out. The government subsidised a brand new St Helena of 6,500 tons with 132 passengers, and we all transferred. So despite my lack of diplomas and theoretical knowledge, plus an obstinate refusal to study anything beyond the practical repair of all the latest gear, I ended up aboard the most modern and expensive British passenger liner (per ton) ever built at that time. And there I remained until taking voluntary redundancy at the end of 1992, aged 48, after 32 years at sea. I took the redundancy when offered, because it had been internationally agreed to dispense with seagoing radio officers on a World-wide scale within the next few years, which they did. By that time, I was ready to put my long-standing plans into operation and become a full-time ship model builder, writer and MN historian. Some of you will be aware that my writing career began many years ago in the Model Boats Magazine, and progressed to my wife and I forming Shelterdeck Publishing in 2014. So – by sticking my head in the sand, I did not ruin my career at all, and ended up at the top, rather than the bottom of my career. The ship is as famous as Cunard's Queens (Look it up in Google) Here is the film of the final sailing from St Helena last year:

Bob **LINK**

[Colin BishopModerator @colinbishop34627]

I don't know why people call them phones. In reality they are handheld computers and can be extremely useful in all sorts of ways as long as you are using them and they are not exploiting you. They offer handheld access to the internet and all the information it holds at the touch of a finger.

In December one of my Daughters had a solo holiday in Australia – quite a long way to go really but she was able to keep in touch by text every other day or so to reassure us that she was OK and had not been eaten by dingos etc. Peace of mind for Mrs B and me.

There are several periods during the year when I am not in the UK but still continue to moderate this forum as usual quite seamlessly – thanks to my phone. (and you never noticed)

When on holiday, in the UK or abroad I can check on opening times of various attractions we might want to visit which can save a wasted journey.

If I'm likely to be unexpectedly late in meeting friends, as I was earlier this week, I can text to say I wil be a bit late to avoid them standing around waiting for me. And when I park the car I can pay the on street parking fee via my phone if I find myself short of change.

Whern we got a bit lost in the woods driving around Nova Scotia a couple of years back I was able to use my phone to display a map of our precise location and the best route out to where we were heading. Local signposts were woefully inadequate.

Visiting Portsmouth the other day to see the new aircraft carrier come in I used my phone to track its progress on Marine Traffic so we could see exactly where it was and choose our viewpoint without having to wait around for hours to be sure of being in the right place at the right time.

On Wednesday I was in London to visit an exhibition at the British Museum. On leaving I checked my phone so I could arrive at Waterloo to catch a fast train back to Guildford rather than the one that goes all around the houses stopping at every station.

The list goes on. Funnily enough I never actually use it as a phone…

Colin

 

 

 

Edited By Colin Bishop on 10/01/2020 22:26:42

[Bob WilsonParticipant @bobwilson59101]

I call mine a phone, because that's practically all it does! Phone or text!

Bob

[Malcolm FraryParticipant @malcolmfrary95515]

Landline dial phone vs Smatphone.

I saw recently a Youtube vid of two teenagers being given the task of calling another number using a dial phone. It was hilarious and sad in equal measure, with their incomprehension of the logic behind picking the handset up, listening for the dial tone, then dialling in the number. Then I think of my efforts at answering an incoming call on my smartphone, or calling something not in my contact list.

My smartphone mostly gets used for TXTing, WhatsApping, as a handy camera and as a SatNav. No doubt, as portable computers, backed up by a really good contract, they are things of wonder, but mine was £52 (including the armoured case) and the contract is £6 per month. I'l live with the shortcomings.

[Tim CooperParticipant @timcooper90034]

Same for me, my contract is £6 a month, the phone is my youngest sons old one.

It's nice being able to keep in touch with sons and grandchildren in Scotland and Malaysia through WhatsApp. Even video calls with Malaysia so my Grandaughter can see us or is it our young dog she wants to see?

Sometimes I wish I had thinner fingers so I didn't press the wrong key so.much.

Tim

[neil hpParticipant @neilhp]

A LOVELY SET, and a lovely present, Bob…………..never progressed much beyond French Curves and flexi curves myself, even when teaching tech drawing.

but I can see the excitement and beauty in those lovely instruments, and the joy that you will get from using them.

enjoy them and hope they get used well.

neil.

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