Billing Smit Nederland Ballast?

[geconParticipant @gecon]

I see that there have been Smit Nederland threads earlier but no inputs for over a year so I decided to open this to ask a question about ballast.

Not surprisingly, Billing don't mention anything in their "instructions" about added ballast nor total displacement for this tug.

I suspect there needs to be quite a bit of weight added to the bilges to get the SN down to it's waterline.

Any pre-owners out there who can remember how much ballast was needed ?

No, I have not bought one, yet, but have heard of a local chap who wants to 'throw in the towel' after only opening the box and loosing heart when he saw the "instructions" He opened the box for the first time about 8 to 10 years ago he said. So at least he didn't give up straight away!

Having built the Billing Colin Archer, I've been hardened!

Anyone for ballast?

George

[geconParticipant @gecon]

[Richard SimpsonParticipant @richardsimpson88330]

Hi George, good to hear from you again. I hope the Colin Archer is doing well and impressing observers at your local water!

Ballasting is always a bit of a minefield but I'll see if I can help. This is basically what I do so I'm not saying this is how it has to be done. I simply offer it as a process that makes sense to me and has worked.

First of all there is no hard and fast answer to what amount of ballast to use for what particular model. There are other considerations that will affect the required ballast such as motor and battery combination you use so it is always best to work it out for yourself.

The first thing I do is mark out the waterline, with a pen, around the bare hull. Hopefully you will have a plan with a clearly marked water line however, if not, then photographs of the real vessel might help you identify it. Failing all else you might even have to resort to using your experience and eye to determine an appropriate water line. I then apply masking tape above the water line, all the way around the hull. Remember this is only a bare hull at the moment. You then put the hull in the bath and add weights to bring the hull down to the water line. When you are happy the hull is sat perfectly at the right level, remove the weights and weigh them all. This is a key number, it is the total amount of weight required to get the hull to it's marks.

Next you need to weigh everything else that you are going to put into the model. Motors, electronics, batteries, superstructure materials, fixtures, fittings, details etc..etc.. Everything must be taken into consideration. You then need the total weight of all this stuff, which, hopefully, is going to be less that the weight you recorded above. You then simply take the total fittings weight from the total weight required to push the hull down and the figure you calculate is the amount of ballast you are going to need to add to your model. I then tend to split this weight into thirds. I put a third of it in the bow in the form of lead shot embedded in resin, a third in the stern in a similar manner, making up the permanent ballast, and that leaves me with a third to be added and played around with as required as non permanent ballast. This could be in the form of any weights added and held in place with Blue Tak or, my favourite, plastic bags containing lead shot. Once I've finished the model and played around with the non permanent ballast it might then become more permanent or I might leave it as non permanent. Bear in mind in the future you might decide to change the battery or some other item that then might require an adjustment to the ballast.

[Ray Wood 3Participant @raywood3]

Hi George,

As others have said it's good to see you back

I had one of these tugs second hand and sold it again pdq, I must have weighed in at around 10 Kilos auw I think 5 kilos at least was the ballast in the bilge, Is it the plank on frame version ? or one of the horrid ABS plastic hulls, not much fun if it is

Best Regards from the UK

Ray

[geconParticipant @gecon]

Hi Richard and Ray,

Many thanks gents, having looked at the plans on Billing Boats site I thought it might smart to secure some weight in the bottom of the hull at an early stage, then add more later to reach the waterline and ballance longitudinally.

As mentioned, I have not bought a tug…yet. Just noticed that there is one here for sale, 10 years old, but boxed and complete. The asking price is the same as todays new price! So I will have to gently inform him than he has given himself an impossible task.

I saw yesterday that Krick list the (similar volume) Happy Hunter at ca. 9.5 kilos. So Ray's suggestion is probably close to the mark.

The Billing Smit Nederland has a ready formed plastic hull (sorry Ray) but that is the only alternative if I am to build another 1metre category boat in our flat. Not just due to Admiralty, but because even I do not want all the shavings, dust and filler powder to battle with. Spend as much time vacuuming as building.

I do look in about once a week, and I must say that I'm impressed by the several ongoing projects shown. I will post if I do actually start something new. As with the Colin Archer, It won't actually be 'new' as many have already build a tug -or two.

Thanks again for your info'

George

[geconParticipant @gecon]

The chap selling the afore mentioned 10-year old Smit Nederland kit would only sell at the new-kit price. Silly boy. So I have ordered a new, new kit! Should arrive imminently.

Admiralty is not amused. Received several shots across the bows, but no direct hits. There were reminders about my promise not to build another boat in our flat….but what I actually meant was not a boat with a plank-on-frame hull (shavings/dust etc).

Will post some 'unboxing pics' during the weekend while checking the contents. Given that 'everyone' has already built a tug BEFORE me I don't expect that a build log will be of much interest -so all will be spared my array of strange spelling mistakes!

George

[Ray Wood 3Participant @raywood3]

Hi George,

I'm glad your getting back into boat building ! you have been missed

The old saying is somethings only worth what somebody's willing to pay !!

You are sure to make a fully fitted engine room and crews quarters as per your Colin Archer…..

BTW I will PM you soon.

Best Regards Ray

[Richard SimpsonParticipant @richardsimpson88330]

Looking forward to it George. I have a friend who has a Colin Archer, bought from an antique shop and nowhere near the standard of yours. I was explaining your internal detail and how impressive it is. Its only when you get in front of a Colin Archer that you realise how big it is.

Anyway I hope you decide to do another build thread on the new one. I for one thoroughly enjoyed watching the Colin Archer come together and didn't notice any speling mishtakes anywhere.

[Colin BishopModerator @colinbishop34627]

George, you should inform the Admilralty that you are not building a model boat, you are merely assembling it. which is a far less messy process.

My paddler is currently sitting on the dining table while I tidy up my workshop, it's only been there three days so far. and looks good with the vase of fresh flowers next to it. I had to explain that the new floor paint in the workshop needs the best part of a week to harden so it's light traffic only in there for the moment.

Colin

[harry smith 1Participant @harrysmith1]

Hello gecon

I check the weights in my Smit Nederland.

Bow 405 grams

Midsection between the batteries 1314 grams

Two Lipo 2S 4000mah 25C batteries 209 grams each.

Motors 540 80 Turn rock crawler plus two ESC 224 grams each.

Stern between the motor shafts 1111 grams.

I would install oilers on both rudder and prop shafts.

Also make the removal section of the deck a water proof seal.

Any water on the deck ends up straight on the motors.

Harry Smith

[geconParticipant @gecon]

Many thanks to all for the replies,

I register that I need about 2.8 kg of ballast in additon to the usual array of R/C gear and batteries. My batteries will be NiMh -probably 2 banks of 2 x 7.2v 5000mAh in parallel, supplying 2 ESC's.

The usual lead acid battery would have been ca.12v x 7Ahr capacity and the batt would weigh about 2.5Kg.

My planned array of 4 NiMh batts will be about 2.0Kg I expect. I will buy in my favourite boxes of tiny iron shot from Krick, which roll all over the place -until imbedded in resin.

I don't expect to start on the S-N until after the summer. Have to pack away the N-guage train layout which presently occupies the 'builder's yard'. I will probably glue on the hull stiffening strips though.

I have to plan the painting sequence too. Will need to spray the hull and some deck structures before assembly I expect.

Thanks again for inputs,

Regards,

George

[Richard SimpsonParticipant @richardsimpson88330]

George if you don't yet know what battery you will be using you can't yet know what your additional ballast requirements will be. You must determine the absolute ballast requirements of the bare hull first by the method described above, then take away the weight of the rest of the model, fittings, propulsion, batteries, electronics etc..etc.. to determine what your additional ballast requirements are.

I would put the lead shot into small plastic bags first until you have decided exactly where you want it, that makes it so much easier to handle.

[geconParticipant @gecon]

Thanks Richard,

I will indeed put the iron shot (tiny 1mm balls of iron) into small bags before securing in place. The batteries will be 4x nimh – 2 to each ESC & motor. I expect to test in my daughters inflateable 'summer' pool as with my other boats. I will load the hull with all the brass bits, batteries and R/C gear to find out what extra will be needed -if any- to 'sink it' to the waterline shown. Did this on the other boats to good effect.

As mentioned earlier, not much building will actually take place until after the summer (here in N that means end August -ish).

George

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