Question for anyone who’s built Vic Smeeds Guardsman

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Question for anyone who’s built Vic Smeeds Guardsman

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3 July 2020 at 16:26 #89689
Charles Oates
Participant
@charlesoates31738
Our long lockdown has made me very busy in the workshop. I've re built and re finished many older models. Inevitably, when I had finished all that I wanted to start a new build. Out came the old plan for Vic's Guardsman, a build I've been putting of for 40 years. I scaled it up to 29 inches instead of 22.5. I use a very scientific method to choose a scale, it has to fit on a vacant shelf.

Anyway, my question. Vic's plan shows the stern tube and motor at quite a steep angle, and I can't see any reason for that. There is plenty of room to set the motor lower in the hull, plus I'm going to use a geared 385 I have spare, with a low set output shaft so I can put the tube and shaft nearly horizontal. I presume the original would have been like that.

Am I missing something? Did Vic have a good reason for installing the motor as he did, or was it just one of his quirks?

Chas
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3 July 2020 at 16:26 #7189
Charles Oates
Participant
@charlesoates31738
3 July 2020 at 16:49 #89690
Ray Wood 3
Participant
@raywood3
Hi Chas,

Any chance of a photo of the drawing ??

Regards Ray
3 July 2020 at 17:30 #89692
ashley needham
Participant
@ashleyneedham69188
Chas. You will set them off arguing about the angle of the dangle with this one!

Personally, and not even knowing what the…no…I can’t do it…any comment will set them going.

I would not even DARE to say something like.. if there is room, put the shaft flatter rather than steeper angle….

Some are likely to say “if that’s what Vic drew, why are you asking” …it’s that sort of thing.

Ashley (FLAT earth society) 🤭

Edited By ashley needham on 03/07/2020 17:30:24
3 July 2020 at 17:48 #89696
Charles Oates
Participant
@charlesoates31738
Hi Ray, I'l sort out a picture tomorrow, but it really is a simple installation, that's why I can't see why Vic drew it the way he did.

Ashley, I don't regard Vics plans as perfect, some are far from that, anyone who's built Mistral will know of a piece that's a couple of inches out. That said, he usually had a very good reason to do things the way he did, and age is making me question my own judgement, hence the question.

Flat Earth……………… It's elephants all the way down!

chas
3 July 2020 at 18:13 #89698
John W E
Participant
@johnwe
Hi Chas

Somewhere on this forum – someone has already made Vic Smeed's Guardsman and the build is somewhere on this Forum. As far as I recall her built it as per plan = bread and butter balsa wood hull construction and so forth. I think that gentleman kept the prop shaft at an angle We will have to try and locate the thread and find that out.

Many moons ago I myself built the Guardsman – but – I built it plank on frame and I do know I had the prop shaft parallel to the keel. To be honest to you, I don't think its made any difference, as long as you keep the propshaft well lubricated so the water doesn't seep through the prop tube into the hull.

What method you use for sealing the prop shaft is up to yourself. It can cause a lengthy discussion that one can – nearly as bad as where do you fit a fuse.

Going back to my build though, I also altered the location of the door on the bridge. On the plan, the door is on the front of the bridge and I put the doors either side of the bridge.

Couple of pics of mine.
3 July 2020 at 18:14 #89699
John W E
Participant
@johnwe
3 July 2020 at 18:58 #89701
Dave Milbourn
Participant
@davemilbourn48782
Vic was a genius but nobody's perfect, so if it feels right to make the shaft angle shallower and there's no obstruction preventing it then do it. The "angle" arguement breaks down when it comes to displacement hulls with high stern counters. Like Vic, John Elsy knows what he's doing – or he's had me fooled for over 20 years!

Incidentally, Tony Hadley's build is here Guardsman build

Dave M

Edited By Dave Milbourn on 03/07/2020 19:19:01
3 July 2020 at 19:18 #89702
John W E
Participant
@johnwe
3 July 2020 at 19:22 #89704
Dave Milbourn
Participant
@davemilbourn48782
Yep! 154 miles.

DM
4 July 2020 at 09:08 #89711
Tony Hadley
Participant
@tonyhadley
Thanks Dave for the link, that model (Guardsman) is still with me.

Charles, looking back at the plan and my build the prop shaft and the angle were as the plan. The difference with mine was the length of the coupling as against the plan. This obviously influenced the positioning of the motor. Mine was a plan size model.

As previous, I still have the model and it's in good condition, stored in the shed, awaiting a small modification to the electrics. Component Shop sells a smaller car type fuse holder and toggle switch. I've recently received these, as the current larger type fuse holder is a squeeze to fit in.

My only comments about the design are firstly, the positioning of the navigation lights. The full sized vessel, Enterprise, which the model is based on, the navigation lights were located on the side of the cabin above the door. Vic's plan shows them mounted on the top of the cabin. With my build it was too late to change them after they had been fitted. In Model Boats magazine, September 2004, is a large steam powered version of Guardsman and the builder has worked to the full sized vessel's positioning of these lights. I've attached a couple of photographs.

The second comment, is the rudder linkage, the way it's shown on the plan would never work. It needed to be modified by cutting away the balsa blocks under the deck. To coin the saying – "It was like wallpapering the hall, through the letter box". Shouldn't be problem for your size of model and type of construction.

I wish you every success with what is a super little model and it's always a pleasure to take this one to the lake.
4 July 2020 at 20:16 #89727
Charles Oates
Participant
@charlesoates31738
Thanks to you all for the help. I'm going to lower the prop shaft as John did, it seems much more natural to have it like that. I presume Vic built it the way he did to suit whatever ancient motor he had at the time.

I'm not worried about water coming up the shaft, I overcame that problem a while ago, I make my own shafts and tubes with end bearings and a centre bearing. Each section has a tube soldered in to top up the grease. Simple and cheap and fine for low powered models like this.

The pictures are a great help and thanks for the notes Tony, they will be very useful and I'll take your advice re the tiller arm. I've made the mistake in the past with inaccessible rudder posts, I was swearing at myself last week whilst fixing up an old model, a 20 inch Zwarte Zee.

Chas
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