Tug Motors

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23 March 2017 at 15:46 #70408
Paul T
Participant
@pault84577
Has anyone any experience of the T12 and T24 motors?

I cant find any detailed specs for these motors apart from them having 12 poles. I would like to know specifics such as Torque, Operating voltage range, RPM, Watts and above all the free running and loaded amp draw.

Paul
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23 March 2017 at 15:46 #5466
Paul T
Participant
@pault84577
23 March 2017 at 16:11 #70409
Empire Parkstone
Participant
@empireparkstone
there are a couple of references to the T12 on this page sem pretty powerful https://www.google.co.uk/webhp?sourceid=chrome-instant&ion=1&espv=2&ie=UTF-8#q=T12+motors&*

and here http://www.modelboatmayhem.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=11377.0

you may have already seen these
23 March 2017 at 16:28 #70410
Paul T
Participant
@pault84577
Hello Empire

Thank you for the help, I'm sorry to say that the first link didn't work for me and the Mayhem link, whilst being a good recommendation for these motors it doesn't provide the technical information that I need.

Thanks for providing the links especially as I hadn't thought of looking on Mayhem.

All the best

Paul
23 March 2017 at 17:21 #70411
Kev.W
Participant
@kev-w
Paul, your best bet is to give Brian a ring at Mobile Marine Models, these motors are one of theirs & they are usually very helpful.

Quite a few of our club members use these in their tugs, as MMM is local to us, it is a very good, trouble free motor that is ideal for tugs.

MMM will be having an open day on Sat. May 13th with other dealers in attendance, always worth a visit.
23 March 2017 at 18:04 #70412
Paul T
Participant
@pault84577
Hi Kip

I would love to visit MMM but Lincoln is a bit to far away for me (passport out of date and would need injections etc) but I might drop them an email.

I really wanted an independent assessment of these motors.

All the best

Paul

Edited By Paul T on 23/03/2017 18:07:15
23 March 2017 at 19:21 #70413
Empire Parkstone
Participant
@empireparkstone
Hi Paul

I just tried the first link and it worked Highlighted it and right click and copy and paste it is only some mentions in other forums I've pasted again

Emp

https://www.google.co.uk/webhp?sourceid=chrome-instant&ion=1&espv=2&ie=UTF-8#q=T12+motors&
24 March 2017 at 14:38 #70416
Paul T
Participant
@pault84577
Hi Empire

The link worked ok, I had a conflict with Firefox before so switched to Chrome and all ok.

The reason for wanting independent assessments is that I need a high torque motor (120 Mn-m) with an output of 120w operating at 12-24volts.

Thanks for your help.

Paul
24 March 2017 at 19:49 #70425
Bob Abell 2
Participant
@bobabell2
Come on, Paul……..Give us a clue please?

Don`t forget the Timing belt option?

Bob
24 March 2017 at 20:22 #70428
mike farrell
Participant
@mikefarrell21522
Hi Paul I fitted 2 T12s my first boat the Anglian M
24 March 2017 at 20:33 #70429
mike farrell
Participant
@mikefarrell21522
man .Elaine bought me the complete kit for my birthday . The motors did not come with any technical information but have behave very well for the last 6 years .

As Kip said, give Brian a call and he will be very helpful .

A trip over Buxton on a fine day is a nice journey (and I will vouch for you and even ride shotgun for you) Michael
25 March 2017 at 10:21 #70433
Paul T
Participant
@pault84577
Hi Bob

This started out as a project exercise for a big TID tug but has become an exercise in futility as I can't bottom out the specs of these infernal motors.

Hi Michael

Love to make the trip and to have you and Elaine on board but somehow I don't think that a personal visit to MMM will shed any more light on my quest.

Paul
25 March 2017 at 11:40 #70434
Dave Milbourn
Participant
@davemilbourn48782
Paul
There is an elephant in this room……it's called a brushless motor. If you have the required prop size, RPM and maybe torque/Wattage then a suitable brushless motor might be quite easy to find – and pay for. There is a lot more data available for these than there seems to be for large brushed motors, especially car/truck blower types like the MMM ones. I was initially very apprehensive of going brushless but now that I have there aren't many models which I would prefer to fit with a brushed motor.
Dave M
25 March 2017 at 15:08 #70435
Paul T
Participant
@pault84577
Dear All

Perhaps I should make it absolutely clear that I not saying or implying that the MMM T Range of motors are from truck or car blower units, I have no reason to suppose that the T Range are anything more or less than what they proport to be i.e. well respected model tug motors.

I am simply noting the lack of technical specifications for these motors and I hasten to add that MMM are under no obligation to supply this information.

Paul
25 March 2017 at 15:20 #70436
Paul T
Participant
@pault84577
Dave

This is the work in progress specification for my ideal brushed motor, as you can see it is very wide ranging and will probably suit a number of 'off the shelf' units.

The reason for opting for the brushed option is that I am expecting to use a few SLA batteries for both power supply and ballast, I also want a low rpm, high torque motor which I know the brushed units will supply.

I haven't looked into brushless as I think they might be to high revving……but I am probably wrong.

Paul
25 March 2017 at 16:58 #70437
Dave Milbourn
Participant
@davemilbourn48782
Part No's 55-79 look interesting. You'll need to register to download the PDF. **LINK**

as do the larger ones in this table **LINK**

Bon chance, mon ami!

DM
25 March 2017 at 18:38 #70438
Paul T
Participant
@pault84577
Dave

Thanks for the links with all those lovely motors……and not made in China.

Just to make sure I am covering all the bases would you know of a suitable brushless motor?

Paul
25 March 2017 at 23:21 #70440
Dave Milbourn
Participant
@davemilbourn48782
Not without a lot of research, m'duck, and it's past my bed-time…

Incidentally there is a thread on Mayhem about this subject but I think the bloke has confused 5-7S with 5-7v – they are very different.

Sweet dreams.

DM
26 March 2017 at 14:18 #70442
shipwright
Participant
@shipwright
Paul,

What is your budget ? Once you enter the world of motors designed for the engineering OEM market (as opposed to the world of modellers) the prices rise sharply.

I had a similar quest to yours – dc motors (qty 2) suitable for my model destroyer (1:48 scale). I eventually contacted the uk sales office of Maxon Motors (Swiss manufacturer) and selected a 48v dc brushed motor (they recommended a smaller motor with an epicyclic reduction gearhead but I wanted direct drive to avoid any mechanical loss in a geartrain).

My power source was a 12 volt SLA. I had trialled my props in an improvised hydraulic test tank and therefore I knew the torque and rpm required (all of the motor parameters are specified by Maxon). By using a 48 volt motor in a de-rated mode at 12v I got the performance that I required. However ….. it was a rather expensive solution as the pair of (non-stock) motors cost over £600 !

The motor type is Maxon RE 40 218008 which can provide about 100 mNm at approx. 1300 rpm (working at 12 volts supply). The propellers were 2.75 inch diameter and the pitch was about 2.5 inch. Working at its nominal voltage of 48 volts the motor can provide an output of 150 watts but in my application the motor mechanical output was only about 10 watts per motor and drawing just over an amp at 12 volts (nominal).

Motor specification :

**LINK**

The destroyer was sold at auction last year.

I hope that this information is of some help.

Ian
26 March 2017 at 15:13 #70443
Kev.W
Participant
@kev-w
Paul, down at the lake this morning, spoke to one of our members who is an employee of MMM, he informed me that the T12 & T24 motors are manufactured for them & them alone to MMM spec's, they are not available anywhere else, they were designed specifically for the application you need them for, (big tugs).

He told me, that if you ring MMM they will give you the info you require.

All it takes is a phone call, easy really.
26 March 2017 at 17:20 #70449
Paul T
Participant
@pault84577
Dave

Thanks for the info but the Mayhem site just drives me mad as trying to find a specific thread is akin to finding a fa-t in a hurricane.

Ian

Thanks for the story of your problems with the destroyer build and the link for the motor spec, what your experience highlights to me is the lack of choice for high voltage/high torque motors that are readily available at a reasonable price.

Kip

I hope you enjoyed your trip to the lake and thank you for asking your friend about the T12 & T24, your conversation confirms what I had already surmised about the lack of suitable motors and I can see why MMM had the motors made.

Thank you all for your help and comments, I will have a long think about this before moving on.

Paul
7 April 2017 at 19:00 #70561
Paul T
Participant
@pault84577
Dear All

But especially those who sail tugs in the 3 to 4ft range can you please help me by answering this simple question.

What motors do you use?

Can you tell me some or all of the following.

Manufacturer, Voltage, Watts, RPM and prop size
22 April 2017 at 16:24 #70728
Paul T
Participant
@pault84577
Dear Reader

After failing to find any suitable tug motors I decided to specify a couple of my own.

The first one arrived this morning for me to test (play with) and after a quick setup I can painfully report that it has enough torque to break your wrist.

Without giving to much information at this time the basic spec is;

24v DC,

No load current 1.5A,

Nominal current 3A,

Nominal speed 3200rpm.

The water resistant can is just under 100mm long and 65mm dia,

Waterproof gland type cable seal

The 8mm shaft extends 30mm

Motor weighs 1150g

Now awaiting the arrival of the second motor which makes this one look like a toy.

Happy Days

Paul

Edited By Paul T on 22/04/2017 16:33:03
22 April 2017 at 21:28 #70730
Mark Jarvis 2
Participant
@markjarvis2
Hi paul, the motor in my Amsterdam is a T24, the motor in my Maersk Leader is a heater blower motor from Peugeot
23 April 2017 at 12:45 #70736
Paul T
Participant
@pault84577
Hello Mark

Your comment sums up in a nutshell the problem that I have had in trying to find off the shelf motors specifically designed for large model tugs.

The T24, which I hasten to add is a perfectly good and well respected motor but for my purposes lacks the technical detail to enable me to work out its power consumption and power output.

A basic description of 12 pole, Hi Torque and Lo Rev doesn't cover detailed information such as the Amp operating range, RPM, or Output in Watts, and yet this is the critical information that a designer needs especially when specifying a large 2m model tug

Your Peugeot heater motor is a prime example of what model tug builders have to resort to when looking for a big 12v motor and yet apart from knowing its voltage what else, without hours of testing, do you know about its performance?

The lack of information is further compounded when trying to find suitable speed controllers, these heavy duty bits of kit are very expensive and we gamble with them whenever we connect them to a big motor with an unknown current draw.

Paul
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