Battery life

Battery life

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  • #64907
    Martin Field 1
    Participant
      @martinfield1

      I have a lot of batteries, in packs and separate, but I rarely use a model as I don't have them necessarily assembled and ready to go when the weather and time and all the other stuff of life allows.

      So, how should I treat them while they're on the shelf, so to speak? They're all NiMhs. I have a fancy metallic blue charger, but don't have a clue how to use it! Assuming I can find somebody to talk me through its use, should I charge, discharge, charge and use or what?

      Cheers,

      Martin, the unelectrical.

      #5420
      Martin Field 1
      Participant
        @martinfield1
        #64925
        Kev.W
        Participant
          @kev-w

          Put them on a low charge, it sounds as if you have a 'smart' charger, it will go into 'Trickle Charge' when it senses that they are at max capacity, no need to discharge first, as Nihm's don't have 'memory' like the old NiCad's.

          Once charged, they keep their charge for quite a long time, I use them in my Fuji bridge camera & it can sit in the cupboard for anything up to 3 months or more, but it is always ready to go when I pick it up. smiley

          #64926
          Martin Field 1
          Participant
            @martinfield1

            Thanks, Kip. My bridge camera is also the only use they get! I'd forgotten that! But yes, they do OK in that usage and they only get charged in one of those plug in things, takes up to 4 AA or AAA batteries.

            Cheers,

            Martin

            #64928
            Dave Milbourn
            Participant
              @davemilbourn48782

              Martin

              Your post came on the same day that I received an E-Mail about a modeller whose house had been burned to a shell when a battery he was charging caught fire. I'm afraid I'm not exaggerating; he's only just been able to move back after four months. If, as you say, you haven't a clue how to use the charger then DON'T USE IT!!! There must be some identification on it sufficient to enable you or someone here to recognise it and follow up with an instruction manual.

              Glynn Guest says that he once calculated the energy stored in a humble sealed lead-acid battery was enough to lift it to the top of Mount Everest, so who knows what catastrophe a modern LiPo or NiMH pack might cause, especially in a hobby-room full of glues, paints, thinners, plastic and wood?

              PLEASE don't be even remotely casual with batteries and chargers. They are truly dangerous in the wrong hands.

              Dave M

              #64931
              Martin Field 1
              Participant
                @martinfield1

                Dave,

                that's very kind of you to warn me.

                I assure you, until I can re-assure myself how to use the clever charger, I won't do so. I have no Li-Pos apart from some probably dead ones that were sent to me a couple of years ago.

                The charger is brand new. It's the manual I can't understand, combined with a complete lack of understanding of battery charging anyway. I do know model flyers who can probably clue me up on its use once the main flying season starts. I don't know any model boaters round here. There is no club and even when there was you wouldn't want to be around the miserable old farts who populated it. I'm not surprised the anglers who shared the pond threw rocks at their models!! I phoned a contact for a club I hadn't been aware of and he warned me to go nowhere near it!

                Even with the wall charger I never leave batteries unattended when charging. Either I or my wife are around at the same time, usually both of us.

                Thanks for your well justified concern.

                BTW, I wish the lead acids I've used on my Taycol motors would lift themselves to Mount Everest! Twice to the bridge and back and they were generally knackered!

                Cheers,

                Martin

                #64932
                Dave Milbourn
                Participant
                  @davemilbourn48782

                  Martin

                  What type of charger is it i.e. Make/Model? Even the Google spiders can't make a great deal of "fancy blue metallic"! There are quite often videos on You Tube about using certain types of charger.

                  Dave M

                  #64933
                  Martin Field 1
                  Participant
                    @martinfield1

                    Dave,

                    it's the iMax one. Whether tis a genuine one or a clone, I don''t know. I just thought it looked nicely presented and was a reasonable price (I think it was nearly 20 quid). I also thought it good that it did all sorts of batteries, especially lead acids as I have a few for my old fashioned motors.

                    But the manual is in Chenglish at best and I have no previous knowledge of charging to fall back on. I charge my electric drill till the pack feels a little warm and my wall charger that does my 4 NiMhs for the camera (and clocks) turns off when they're done. That's it really apart from the car, which rarely has needed a charge, but that was just a sign (when I had older style cars) that the charge circuit was duff or the battery was on the way out.

                    I cannot get charge rates and timings numbers into my head. It's a psychological thing. I have inherited my Dad's abilities with tools to make and mend almost anything, but when he switched to electronics, I switched off. I could have had a well established business when he died but I just couldn't get electrickery into my noddle for love or money, so Mum sold it. That's how uninterested I am in wires, I'm afraid. Too much to know and not the patience to retain it. Much like why I can't remember where the fingers go on a fret/keyboard, despite having an excellent ear for music. After 63 years I must face the awful fact I shall never play the saxophone!

                    But it would be nice, when I get a boat ready for the installation of power to break out the metallic blue wonder box and do it properly, assuming any of them will take a charge, having hung around on the hooks for a year or so.

                    Cheers,

                    Martin

                    #64934
                    Dave Milbourn
                    Participant
                      @davemilbourn48782

                      Here's just a few examples of the videos I mentioned:

                      **LINK**

                      **LINK**

                      **LINK**

                      Yo don't need to know ANYTHING about electronics to make and operate model boats. This article was written for people who mistakenly think that you do….

                      **LINK**

                      Dave M

                      #64935
                      Martin Field 1
                      Participant
                        @martinfield1

                        Dave,

                        I shall watch and try to digest that lot during the day (my usual tea breaks, etc.) and get back to you, but to me anything requiring volts is electronics or, more accurately, electrickery!

                        Cheers,

                        Martin

                        #64936
                        Dave Milbourn
                        Participant
                          @davemilbourn48782

                          Eyewash, dear boy! If it really was rocket-science I'd have taken up knitting a long time ago.

                          All you need to know is what type of battery you have; what the voltage is, and what capacity it has. All that stuff is written on the battery pack. The charger does everything else for you [what we call "the clever bits"]. It's not even as difficult as boiling a kettle and, as 'Sir' Geoffrey Boycott might say, my Mum could do that!

                          There are a number of "silly old farts" around who seem to think it's somehow cool to be ignorant and that it's arrogant to understand anything about basic schoolboy physics. They're the ones whose models look like they've been assembled with reference to the wrong set of plans; are painted with housedust and old treacle and, inside, are home to a large colony of damp, colour-blind rats. Trying to help them is like a game, where you have to guess the answer they want to hear. You were well advised to avoid them.

                          Read the article first; the videos will make a little more sense if you do.

                          Dave M

                          Edited By Dave Milbourn on 26/04/2016 10:40:22

                          #64937
                          Martin Field 1
                          Participant
                            @martinfield1

                            I am not at all proud to not understand electrical stuff. It's just an unfortunate fact. As it happens I knew all the stuff in the article, (I read it whilst watching Lovejoy and yes I can do both). I haven't yet watched the videos as I really must do some work on the BRM before spraying it.

                            As you can see from my pictures on another thread, the modelmaking is not a problem. Indeed I could write articles on that aspect like you do on the electrics. It's just the damned numbers game with electrics I can't retain.

                            But many thanks for your help, Dave.

                            I may have to come back with questions on the charger. I hope it's easier on NiMhs than it was on LiPos. I tried to get it working on a tiny LiPo I have, but it wouldn't display the relevant voltage. That was when I put it all back in its box!

                            I've just bought a sail winch servo and would like to test it, but then I'd have to go through that binding business. Oh Lordy, when will it all stop!??

                            Cheers,

                            Martin

                            #64938
                            Paul T
                            Participant
                              @pault84577

                              There are a number of "silly old farts" around who seem to think it's somehow cool to be ignorant and that it's arrogant to understand anything about basic schoolboy physics.

                              Hello Dave

                              Very well said, you have summed up in one sentence something a trend that has been growing alarmingly in the past couple of years.

                              As you know I recently had an enforced period of inactivity where I took the opportunity to read through some of this forums recent postings and I came to realise that a number of people, who are certainly old enough to know better have an almost reckless approach to the most basic of construction and operating systems.

                              I don't know if these people are being deliberately ignorant just to provoke a response or more frighteningly they genuinely have no concept of the possible harm that they could inflict upon themselves or others.

                              Modern batteries and chargers can and do explode or burst into flames, steam boilers can most certainly explode with catastrophic consequences, mixing different paint systems can produce toxic fumes, sanding hardwoods produces carcinogenic dust…….and so on.

                              I find it utterly incongruous that people with so much life experience can take such a cavalier attitude with their own and others peoples wellbeing. They regard basic Health & Safety as being created by busybodies and as such should be ignored.

                              How these people have managed to live so long is a mystery to me and quite frankly I am amazed that they even reached puberty without killing themselves by sticking their fingers into electrical sockets.

                              Paul

                              #64940
                              Martin Field 1
                              Participant
                                @martinfield1

                                I hope that's not aimed at me, Paul.

                                Whilst, if I were restoring an antique, I would use pearl glue, heated in my cast iron pot, the veneer put on with my veneer hammer, I am happy to use a digital meat thermometer to get the right temperature. I am also fascinated by modern adhesives, materials and processes, whilst not being blind to their shortcomings.

                                As to dust, I always do dusty stuff outside which means taking my very heavy belt/disc sander out and putting on the plastic workmate. Same with the bandsaw. Hand grinding/milling of resins and wooden structures is also done outside with my extended minidrill cable or longer flexible drive.

                                Where I live it is almost NEVER calm, but breezy to damned near gail force. Today, in the sunshine the shed windows are rattling (styrene as supplied, not a good idea and will be replaced in better weather with glass)

                                I can't wear a mask as it steams up the glasses, although since my sight has changed to mean I can remove my glasses for normal bench work I have been able to wear a mask if I doubt that the breeze is sufficient or when using self-etch primer (the only paint I tend to use in the spray gun these days).

                                What annoys me most of all is peoples' easy readiness to say, "Oh I don't have the skills", when they've never even tried. Heaven knows there are enough articles and forum posts on how to do summat to have everybody at least partly competent. I was carving balsa slot car bodies when I was 13 and had already built my Crash Tender with my Dad 2 years earlier. Of course it helps to be really interested in order to retain information, I've always found.

                                I recall being informed that the wood we apprentices had used to make a 1/500th scale model of Cardiff, Mansonia, was carcinogenic. NOBODY else in the firm (John B. Thorp) knew and we all started wearing masks. That was only 1969 and was genuinely news to us all, bosses included.

                                Cheers,

                                Martin

                                #64941
                                Dave Milbourn
                                Participant
                                  @davemilbourn48782

                                  Martin

                                  I didn't intend to imply that you are in any way ignorant and I apologise if I gave you that impression; your model-making skills are indeed beyond question.

                                  I've seen what is called discalculia at first-hand; an otherwise very bright lass was forced to resign from the business after she'd been promoted into a job which needed proficiency in maths – except that numbers were little more than just meaningless shapes to her. Nobody is perfect – I can't play a saxaphone either!

                                  This forum is what it says on the can – an open public space for everyone and anyone. I do sometimes engage in private conversations with people, but only where there is a very specific point to cover which would be of little interest to anyone else. Otherwise I hope my contributions are of value to all – even those whom Paul so acerbically describes above! Believe me, if I thought for an instant that you are the type of person I've described then the last thing I would be doing is writing a reply to you. We can leave them happily enjoying their isolation.

                                  BTW You don't need a radio to test a servo; just one of these and a 4-cell receiver battery pack **LINK**

                                  Dave M

                                  #64942
                                  Paul T
                                  Participant
                                    @pault84577

                                    Hello Martin

                                    No my comments are certainly not aimed at you, its simply that Daves remarks happened to be on your thread. But without putting you on the spot I wager that you could name a few candidates.

                                    All the best

                                    Paul

                                    Dave…..acerbically…I had to look it up and you never apologise to me when you imply my ignorance  

                                     

                                    Edited By Paul T on 26/04/2016 12:40:37

                                    #64943
                                    Banjoman
                                    Participant
                                      @banjoman

                                      Martin,

                                      I, too, wear glasses, and used to find dust masks a bother, precisely because they steamed up my glasses. However, one only gets that problem with the simpler types of mask that does not really fit around the face, and allows exhalation air to pass under the edge of the mask and up across the nose.

                                      With a proper half mask, this simply does not occur! Exhalation is instead passed out through exhalation valves, and so no glasses steam up — and no dust creeps back in under the edge either!

                                      Personally I use a Sundström SR 100 (**LINK**), but there are many other brands available that do a similar job.

                                      For dust and non-solvent base spray/airbrush painting, a standard mechanical particle filter (**LINK** is sufficient, but the mask can also be used to protect against gases with the appropriate filter; in fact, a particle and gas filter can be used together, if neede, as they simply attach to each other.

                                      I have found this mask surprisingly comfortable, and it is very easy to put on and take off, and has a simple, tangle-free head harness. Breathing through the particlt filter is very easy, as is exhalation, and although not as comfy as orking without a mask, I can wear for an hour at a stretch, no problem.

                                      /Mattias

                                      Edited By Banjoman on 26/04/2016 12:47:39

                                      #64944
                                      Martin Field 1
                                      Participant
                                        @martinfield1

                                        Gents, no offence taken. I'm very hard to offend, but I wasn't sure if we'd got our wires twisted (ouch!! Pun really not intended!)

                                        Numbers per se, I can handle, but for some reason it's the application of them to electrics that won't stick. I think it is the historic thing with my Dad assuming I'd follow his path into a business that didn't interest me in the least. I kind of tuned out entirely in order to resist his constant hints.

                                        I appreciate your complement and must try harder!

                                        That servo tester will have to go on the wish list as i recently had more toys than I've strictly earned, what with the servo and a wee bag of goodies from man on the Isle of Man to put on my vintage Marblehead, but I will definitely get one. Thanks for the link.

                                        Cheers,

                                        Martin

                                        #64945
                                        Martin Field 1
                                        Participant
                                          @martinfield1

                                          Mattias, that looks like a serious bit of kit.

                                          My son once brought a similar mask home from the Air Force, but I could hardly breathe in it!

                                          I imagine it was one of his nuclear/ poison gas jobbies and he just didn't tell me!

                                          I would certainly wear one if doing what that chap in the picture was doing, especially indoors, but I never do anything dusty indoors, but thanks for the info/link.

                                          I have converted a lot to chisels which make big shavings that drop on the floor. It's amazing how delicate a shape a decently sharp chisel can make, but in the end a bit of sanding is inevitable.

                                          Cheers,

                                          Martin

                                          #64946
                                          Banjoman
                                          Participant
                                            @banjoman

                                            I forgot to say in my previous post that the mechanical particle filters last a very long time with normal hobby use — I might change that filter in my mask once every two years or so — and thus are not likely to break the bank any time soon, whereas the gas filters contain activated carbon and, from what I understand, have a limited shelf life, once the packaging seal has been broken.

                                            /Mattias

                                            #64947
                                            Dave Milbourn
                                            Participant
                                              @davemilbourn48782

                                              Dave…..acerbically…I had to look it up and you never apologise to me when you imply my ignorance

                                              Paul

                                              "I'm sorry but I think you're a thicky"

                                              How's that?

                                              DM

                                              #64948
                                              Martin Field 1
                                              Participant
                                                @martinfield1

                                                Good job you two know each other, innit?<G>

                                                Martin

                                                #64949
                                                Colin Bishop
                                                Moderator
                                                  @colinbishop34627

                                                  The lack of basic technical 'savvy' worries me as well, although not so much on this particular Forum. At one time I was inclined to put it down to current educational shortcomings and while I still think this is a factor, it is more likely to affect younger modellers who are usually more than willing to learn.

                                                  I agree that the ignorance by older people is more puzzling as their education and upbringing is likely to have given them a better 'feel' for basic practical technical matters and and also that important ability to be aware of what you don't know and which might bite you; caution I think it's called.

                                                  Maybe it is partly because 'oldies' get impatient and blase about a lot of things and get their grandkids to work the remote etc. 'When all else fails – read the instructions'. But I do also wonder if the big increase in people buying rather than making their models and thus skipping the construction stage may be one reason for the 'posts of bafflement' which so often appear on internet forums.

                                                  I have also heard it said that many people who buy the model boating magazines only look at the pictures. frown

                                                  Colin

                                                  #64950
                                                  Martin Field 1
                                                  Participant
                                                    @martinfield1

                                                    Colin,

                                                    even the buyers of RTR have to keep and charge batteries. The main reason for my original question was that I have NiMh packs which came with a couple of RTR aircraft my son bought me cheap off his work For Sale board and some that I bought from the model shop to replace one of the packs. Also, I have been gifted them when my wife thoughtfully saw packs of 6 or 8 for sale in the supermarket.

                                                    When, like me, you've not done much R/C or active pondside stuff in recent years, it's a fair question.

                                                    Martin

                                                    #64951
                                                    Dave Milbourn
                                                    Participant
                                                      @davemilbourn48782

                                                      Martin

                                                      In answer to your original question, please read the penultimate section of this article ("Storing your cells" – it's about 3/4 of the way down) **LINK**

                                                      You've said that you already knew the technical issues covered in my article so there seems little else I can offer you. I can't help you with your reasons for feeling challenged by the numbers associated with 'electrickery' but unless you're able to deal with this to what is a very small extent then your hobby will remain not only unfulfilled but also a potential liability to your well-being.

                                                      To put it another way, you'll never learn how to clap if you insist on keeping one hand in your pocket.

                                                      Dave M

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