Sailing Ship Rigs

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16 January 2018 at 18:12 #75043
Bob Wilson
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@bobwilson59101
Sailing ship rigs. All drawings by myself

Bob
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16 January 2018 at 18:12 #4457
Bob Wilson
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@bobwilson59101
16 January 2018 at 19:11 #75044
Bob Abell 2
Participant
@bobabell2
Very impressive, Bob

I'm amazed at the extensive variation of sail and rig combinations that were available at one time!

Can't imagine how you have gathered the necessary information?

Are all these ships drawn to the same scale, I wonder?

I could think of dozens of " Why " questions, as the combinations are so different from ship to ship

But I'll control myself

One question…….Why choose Yacht type sails rather than Galleon type sails?……..Could the choice be based on wind direction on certain sea routes?

No need to knock yourself out, Bob

Bob
16 January 2018 at 19:22 #75046
Bob Wilson
Participant
@bobwilson59101
Bob

They are not to the same scale. When I put them on the page, each one was sized for convenience. The originals are all to specific scale. There aren't all that many and they are certainly not difficult to understand. i.e barquentine has at least three masts and only the foremast has square sails. Barque has at least three masts and the back one is fore-and-aft sails only. Full-rigged ship at least three masts, and square sails on all of them. I have no idea what you mean by galleon sails or yacht sails! There are square sails and fore-and-aft sails – that is all! Seamen were not all that educated in the 19th century, so if they could understand it, it was really no big deal. I went to sea in 1961 because I was not educated enough for anything else (failed 11+ and not even an O level) but soon got the hang of all the sea terms and atypes of ship, although by that time they were all steamers and motor ships. These day, only motor ships.

Bob
16 January 2018 at 21:11 #75051
Bob Abell 2
Participant
@bobabell2
Bob

Referring to my Yacht and Galleon sails question

I was referring to……..Why have a 4 mast schooner against a 4 mast full rigged ship?

The prevailing wind direction must have been a deciding factor?

Bob
16 January 2018 at 21:32 #75053
Bob Wilson
Participant
@bobwilson59101
Bob

The wind direction had very little to do with it. Schooners could sail closer into the wind than square-riggers, and there were some very large American schooners, like the six-masted Wyoming (See attached) or the seven-masted Thomas W. Lawson. Veritable giants, but they were less than satisfactory on bad weather runs such as Cape Horn or winter North Atlantic because the big fore-and aft sails were harder to control and it was almost all or nothing. Square-rigged ships had adequatley brtaced square sails and lots of them. In extreme weather condions, you could take a square rigger down to lower topsails and the odd staysail, and they were easier to control in very bad weather when compared with schooners. Small topsail schooners were usually coastal or UK – Mediterranean, but they did cross the Atalntic or even go to Australia or New Zealand if required, but being small, they were easier to handle than the big multi-masted ones.

Bob
16 January 2018 at 21:51 #75054
Colin Bishop
Moderator
@colinbishop34627
Lovely drawings Bob.

Re sail types, as you say, it is horses for courses (literally!) depending on what conditions the ship is normally expected to be sailing in. Plus no doubt manning considerations were also taken into account.

Colin
16 January 2018 at 22:00 #75055
Kev.W
Participant
@kev-w
The Americans built another version on the brig, they called it a 'Snow'
17 January 2018 at 07:23 #75058
Bob Wilson
Participant
@bobwilson59101
Yes, the difference was minimal though, and I wonder why they even gave it a different name. A snow has an extra mast behind the mainmast on which the spanker is set. In the US, they didn't call four-masted barques, four-masted barques, but "shipentines!" Similarly they don't have port and starboard, but left and right, but it doesn't sound right to simple seamen such as myself! Also, I can never come to terms with calling ships "boats."

"Battleboat" simply does not sound right, or "74-gun boat-of the line!"

Here is a larger plan of the four-masted barque "Forteveiot"

Bob

Edited By Bob Wilson on 17/01/2018 07:26:34
17 January 2018 at 07:32 #75059
Bob Abell 2
Participant
@bobabell2
I agree whole heartedly with you on those strange US ship names, Bob

But ships and boats is quite a stumbling block for many people in the UK

eg………Mailboat…………Mailship don't sound right?

Looking at those long slender six masted ships……..How many broke their backs in a storm?

Bob
17 January 2018 at 07:52 #75062
Bob Wilson
Participant
@bobwilson59101
Bob,

The terms Mailboat, Boat Train, Banana Boat etc were coined by people who had nothing to do with the sea, and the general public just went along with it. I knew the difference between a ship and a boat before I was ten years old, simply by reading about them! My parents always called them boats! I was once made to stand in a corner at infants school for declaring that a derrick was a crane on a ship and that a barque (bark) was not so-called because it was made of wood!

Sailing ships were not long and slender, although looking at the plan of Forteviot, you may think so. They were very wide, and very deep. Look how much is under water (the red part). When it came to breaking their backsin storms, not many of them did. In fact, I can only think of one, the 6-masted schooner Wyoming (See image above). That one broke up whilst lying at anchor in bad weather, but there was a reason. She was an enormous ship, well over 300-feet long, and to make matters worse, she was built of softwood! Far too big for a softwood ship. British shipbuilding changed over to iron and steel in the early 1870s for ocean going ships. They were immensely strong, often with plating over an inch thick for ships of only two thousand tons or so. I have sailed in a 32,000 ton tanker with hull plating only 5/8 inch thick!

Bob
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