Calypso

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11 January 2015 at 15:47 #55015
BRYAN ASTON
Participant
@bryanaston57723
Greetings all I have just bought a used Billings Calypso research ship and are finding it very hard to trim it ,are these model boats very unstable as seems to take a lot ballast to keep it upright. Has anyone any experience with this model.
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11 January 2015 at 15:47 #4181
BRYAN ASTON
Participant
@bryanaston57723
Ballast
11 January 2015 at 16:22 #55020
Paul T
Participant
@pault84577
Hi Bryan

Never had the Calypso but have owned a few billings boats and have found that they all needed surprisingly large amounts of ballast to trim them correctly. My favourite form of ballast for billings boats is wheel balancing weights that I used to buy by the bucket full from scrapyards.

Paul
11 January 2015 at 16:33 #55022
Colin Bishop
Moderator
@colinbishop34627
I certainly do remember reading years ago that this particular model was very tender. It carries a lot of topweight. You might have to consider using a small detachable weighted keel for sailing the model.

If you just put more ballast in then it won't float at the correct waterline.

Colin
12 January 2015 at 16:38 #55077
BRYAN ASTON
Participant
@bryanaston57723
Thank you colin and Paul for your suggestions to keep Calypso upright , when I don the waders and rescue my boat from the bottom of the pond I will follow your suggestions. When I can gain access to the club hut it should be no problem, it is only o.6 m deep, too cold to paddle.
13 January 2015 at 00:32 #55092
Geoff Sleath
Participant
@geoffsleath41411
Posted by Colin Bishop, Website Editor on 11/01/2015 16:33:35:

I certainly do remember reading years ago that this particular model was very tender. It carries a lot of topweight. You might have to consider using a small detachable weighted keel for sailing the model.

If you just put more ballast in then it won't float at the correct waterline.

Colin

Surely if you put in enough ballast in the right place the boat can't help but float on waterline? The volume submerged displaces that volume of water which determines the overall weight of the boat (Archimedes principle). I can only assume the Billings kits are light which must be a good thing and make them more stable because more of the weight will be ballast below the waterline.

I'm no expert beyond remembering a bit a school physics, possibly wrongly.

Geoff
13 January 2015 at 09:04 #55095
shipwright
Participant
@shipwright
Geoff,

The problem here is not overall weight but the vertical distribution of that weight. If the superstructure is too large a proportion of the overall weight then the ship will be unstable. You then need to add more weight in the bottom of the hull but that takes the overall weight above the designed displacement and the boat may be stable but "sit" lower in the water than the designed waterline.

I had this very problem with my model destroyer. I did lighten the superstructure by replacing metal (brass) funnels with plastic funnels. But I still needed to add significant ballast deep in the hull to give the ship lateral stability. And she is significantly lower in the water than she should be. Ships in which the beam is a small fraction of the length are prone to this problem.

Ian
13 January 2015 at 09:40 #55097
Colin Bishop
Moderator
@colinbishop34627
As Ian says, it is how the weight is distributed that is the issue. You only have to look at this model to see that it is very top heavy compared with the underwater volume of the hull.

As the hull is not very deep, an external keel may be the only practical way forward.

Colin
16 January 2015 at 11:14 #55177
BRYAN ASTON
Participant
@bryanaston57723
Greetings all how can I not locate a 3 ft long sunken boat in 2 ft of crystal clear pond water. If and when I salvage Calypso I will follow all the tips I have received from you all.

Bryan
16 January 2015 at 14:20 #55180
Geoff Sleath
Participant
@geoffsleath41411
Posted by Colin Bishop, Website Editor on 13/01/2015 09:40:59:

As Ian says, it is how the weight is distributed that is the issue. You only have to look at this model to see that it is very top heavy compared with the underwater volume of the hull.

As the hull is not very deep, an external keel may be the only practical way forward.

Colin

My only knowledge of the 'Calypso' was from seeing Jaques Cousteau's TV programmes in the 1950s (at least I think that's what I remember.) Weren't most of the activities under water in any case? I obviously misunderstood the problem. If the model is top heavy before you start then that is difficult to overcome without a dummy keel similar to the one I've made for my barge.

Bryan: As for finding your sunken model.

Presumably you know roughly where it is and so it should be easy to spot if the water is clear. So take a change of trousers, shoes and socks, plus a towel and go for it. At least the water's only 2 feet deep. It might be a good idea to take a stick both to prevent your getting wet above the knees and as probe to locate the model.

Geoff
16 January 2015 at 18:18 #55197
Colin Bishop
Moderator
@colinbishop34627
Yes, as per my original post, the model is prone to instability to start with! Kit manufacturers don't always get it right. I can think of a couple of other examples which I'd best not mention.

It is surprising how often modellers come unstuck on stability issues which is why we ran an article on it in one of the recent annual Special Issues of Model Boats. People build a model, fit it out with all sorts of extra R/C functions which add weight high up and then wonder why it falls over on the pond!

Colin
16 January 2015 at 18:52 #55199
Dave Milbourn
Participant
@davemilbourn48782
Nothing new. It's probably why the Mary Rose sank.

DM
16 January 2015 at 20:11 #55201
Tony Hadley
Participant
@tonyhadley
The annual Special Issue which Colin mentioned in the earlier post is the 2011 exclusive to WH Smith, Construction Special. The item was very well written by Richard Simpson.

Tony
16 January 2015 at 23:59 #55205
Charles Oates
Participant
@charlesoates31738
Theres a calypso in our club, it was very tender when built, but now successfuly modified.
First the lead- acid battery was relpaced with a nimh to keep the weight lower in the hull.
Secondly, the superstructure was lightened, cutting out sections where possible,and replacing metal items with plastic.
It now sails quite nicely.
Charles.
17 January 2015 at 11:24 #55214
BRYAN ASTON
Participant
@bryanaston57723
Greetings all

I know exactly the spot where my calypso sank give or take 1m, our club salvage expert wore the club waders and following my directions searched a large area of pond but was unable to locate anything, very strange, tomorrow, the

salvage expert will launch the dingy and extend the search area. Wish me luck. the calypso is the only ready built boat that was in my fleet ,the others were scratch built which I more or less threw together as I have only been into model boats for just over a year and I had no idea what I was doing,they all sailed perfectly without any ballast ,just 7.2 v batteries. Life is a mystery.

thank you all for your comments

Bryan
17 January 2015 at 12:29 #55215
Paul T
Participant
@pault84577
Bryan

Two possibilities spring to mind:

Firstly sometimes when model boats sink they hydroplane under the water and can travel for some distance before hitting the bottom, this is especially true in water that has an undercurrent.

Secondly someone else has already recovered it.

Paul
17 January 2015 at 12:58 #55216
Bob Abell 2
Participant
@bobabell2
A glass bottomed bucket would be very handy in your search

You may also find all those brass props that have been lost over the years?

Bob
18 January 2015 at 15:25 #55258
BRYAN ASTON
Participant
@bryanaston57723
Greetings all

Went to the pond , my salvage expert and I were about to launch the dingy ,glanced at the pond and around 15ft out from the edge a white shape appeared on the bottom of the pond it was the missing boat, to say we were astounded is an understatement'I must be living right.

God only knows how long it will take to dry out , took all the electronics out ,only time will tell if anything can be salvaged.Obviously it will need to undergo elements of refurbishment.

Watch this space

Bryan

A happy bunny
18 January 2015 at 16:30 #55263
Dave Milbourn
Participant
@davemilbourn48782
Bryan

Ref the electrics – remove the batteries and don't use them again. Open up the other units as far as possible and rinse them out under a running tap, then shake them as dry as possible and put them on a paper towel in the airing cupboard for at least a week. Try them again with fresh batteries.

Dave M
18 January 2015 at 18:30 #55268
BRYAN ASTON
Participant
@bryanaston57723
Greetings Dave

I will follow your advice

Thanks

Bryan
26 January 2015 at 17:34 #55456
BRYAN ASTON
Participant
@bryanaston57723
Greetings all

Following the sinking of my Calypso and the salvage of same, the twin motors no longer run ,has anyone got any idea what motors were originally fitted , I cannot find any markings on them to give me a clue, they are very small.. Any info would be most welcome.

regards

Bryan
26 January 2015 at 18:02 #55458
Colin Bishop
Moderator
@colinbishop34627
It would depend on the builder but a couple of low drain 385 types should do the job or maybe Deans Marine Kondors.

Colin
30 January 2015 at 17:14 #55592
BRYAN ASTON
Participant
@bryanaston57723
Greetings Colin

I bought two 385 motors online and they were a perfect fit to everything, I can now continue with the refurbishment.

My next job is to sort out the correct ballast, I have sent for an amount of lead shot which will go under the floor of the battery deck. A 12v battery lying on its side and a few strips of lead flashing and the boat will either sail perfectly or sink under its own weight, I will let you know what happens, wish me luck.

Regards

Bryan
30 January 2015 at 17:24 #55593
Colin Bishop
Moderator
@colinbishop34627
Unless you have already bought it I would advise against a lead acid type battery for two reasons. Firstly it will raise the centre of gravity and secondly, while that sort of battery can indeed be laid on its side one side of it will be heavier than the other due to its internal construction.

A NiMH flat pack of cylindrical cell swill keep the weight much lower, act as ballast and deliver more usable power.

Also, you probably won't need 12 volts with 385 motors, 7.2v or 8.5v should be plenty. See here:

**LINK**

Colin
30 January 2015 at 17:47 #55594
BRYAN ASTON
Participant
@bryanaston57723
Hi Colin.

When I first sailed the boat it had two 7.2 v batteries powering it , and acting as ballast and it capsized after a short distance, the 12v battery I am considering using is a 3.4 amph and is quite small and should lay flat on the battery deck. I tried a large 12v battery as ballast in the bath with two 7.2 v batteries and a number of lead strips as well ,. it was very stable.

I read on a billings forum the other day, that billings recommend a total ballast weight of 4.9 pounds, unless I read it wrong. I am open to correction

Regards

Bryan
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