Graupner Wiesel RC setup

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Graupner Wiesel RC setup

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10 August 2017 at 10:19 #72546
John Edwards 18
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@johnedwards18
Good morning. I have just joined the forum and 1st off I should say I am not 18 as my profile shows. I obviously missed something when I signed up!!

OK I used to make static boat kits many years ago before I return ed to my 1st love of model railways. However during a recent clear out in the loft I found a Graupner Wiesel kit I bough in the early 1980's. It looks a pretty straightforward build but I would like some help on 2 subjects.

The first is motors for it. The recommended motors are 500 Speed E but they are no longer made. There are lots of "540" size motors out there but I would like to use "545" 5 pole motors. The choice there seems a little more limited so does anyone have any views on what is out there?

My 2nd question is about the RC set up for controlling multiple motors. I came across Action Electronics ( now The Components Shop) set up for the Wiesel and although it isn't cheap it looks to be a good setup. It uses their P94 dual ESC and a single CondorP80 for the 3rd motor. They have additional bits for switching on things like Radar and lights. Has anyone used their equipment? Any thoughts about it and if it is any good? Any help will be most welcome.
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10 August 2017 at 10:19 #2699
John Edwards 18
Participant
@johnedwards18
Action Electronics
10 August 2017 at 11:40 #72548
Trevor Drabble 1
Participant
@trevordrabble1
John, With respect to motors may I suggest you consider these **LINK** who are presently listing the type of motor you mentioned .
10 August 2017 at 12:12 #72551
Tim Cooper
Participant
@timcooper90034
John

I have used Action / Component Shop components on a number of models. No problems except the ones I caused. They are always very helpful if you contact them by phone or EMAIL.

Tim
10 August 2017 at 14:34 #72555
Dave Milbourn
Participant
@davemilbourn48782
John

This 5-pole motor should be more or less equivalent to the old 500E on 12v **LINK** They are available direct from MFA. Don't even think about using a sealed lead-acid battery in that model – far too heavy. A ten-cell NiMH or 3S LiPo pack will do a much better job. BTW the P92/3 shown in the wiring diagram is now sold as P102.
ACTion Electronics have an excellent reputation – I should know; I solder 'em up for Component Shop!

Dave M

Edited By Dave Milbourn on 10/08/2017 14:38:37
10 August 2017 at 15:03 #72556
Paul T
Participant
@pault84577
Hello John

ACTion equipment is very well made and stands up to a lot of abuse, their P98 is the only speed controller that I use on my 24v and 30v motors.

Very courteous and helpful after sales service

As long as you don't get Mr Grumpy in the soldering dept

Paul

Edited By Paul T on 10/08/2017 15:04:06
10 August 2017 at 15:15 #72558
Cookie
Participant
@cookie15923
John,I have bought loads of Action Electronics parts over the years and I have never ever had any issues ,OK you can buy cheaper ESC,s but in my opinion they are not as robust as the Action ones.Also if you look on the Action website you can view plenty of circuit diagrams for plenty of different applications ,they are drawn in a very simple way and easy to understand if you a not that good with normal circuit diagrams.☺

Dave
10 August 2017 at 17:05 #72561
Empire Parkstone
Participant
@empireparkstone
Mines runs on Graupner 600 7..2 V more than adequate you should be able to find some around
10 August 2017 at 18:29 #72563
Dave Milbourn
Participant
@davemilbourn48782
Gliders appear to have them in stock, although the picture doesn't match the text **LINK**

I'd hedge my bet and go for the P94 20A version with these – it's only three quid more and that might just be the difference between a good 'un and a bust 'un!

DM

Edited By Dave Milbourn on 10/08/2017 18:30:40
10 August 2017 at 19:20 #72565
Empire Parkstone
Participant
@empireparkstone
No Dave these are the ones I have

https://www.howesmodels.co.uk/product/Graupner%20Speed%20600%207.2v%20Motor
10 August 2017 at 21:47 #72570
John Edwards 18
Participant
@johnedwards18
Well what a response. Many thanks to everyone that has replied.

For sure any concerns I had about Action Electronics have been allayed and I can confirm that the 2 emails I sent them recently were responded to very quickly. So that is the first issue solved and I will beprdering the parts from them tomorrow.

As for the motors I will look a little more. I do have a decent model shop near me so I think a visit there to see what they have may be called for.

Once again many, many thanks for all the replies.
10 August 2017 at 22:58 #72573
Dave Milbourn
Participant
@davemilbourn48782
EP
I think Gliders just have the wrong photo – the specs are identical.

John
Be VERY careful about what you might be sold locally. There are hundreds of motors out there which all look outwardly identical, but the innards are vastly different. Howes and Gliders (despite the photo error) are reliable suppliers.

Dave M
11 August 2017 at 15:41 #72587
John Edwards 18
Participant
@johnedwards18
Well I have spent some more time online looking at motors for the Wiesel. There don't seem to be a lot of 545 motors out there. Force seems to be one and Sun another. I was looking to run on 7.2 volts so he MFA motor is probably not the one to choose.

Am I actually going to see any real benefit compared to using 3 pole motors. I know from my model railway that 5 pole motors give smoother acceleration and good slow running but in a boat like the Wiesel is that really an issue?

There are lots of 540 motors to choose from so maybe I should go for one of those. Does anyone have any recommendations?

As far as Action Electronics are concerned I am just about to go to the Component Shop web site to order the parts I need for the RC setup. That's one problem solved with the replies I got to my original post.
11 August 2017 at 19:15 #72595
Dave Milbourn
Participant
@davemilbourn48782
John

My gut feeling is that if EP has had success with the Graupner motors then go with those. It's one less step in the dark for you.

Dave M
12 August 2017 at 09:46 #72600
John Edwards 18
Participant
@johnedwards18
Hi Dave. A couple of places have the Graupner 600 7.2volt motors. Yesterday I started sorting through the "bits in the box" as I remembered that when i bought the kit it was sold as being "incomplete" as far as some of the fittings were concerned. I found a large paper bag with fittings in it some of which are optional extras such as navigation lights that I must have bought at the time. In there also were 3 Graupner Jumbo 2000 motors. Looking online the spec says they are 6 volt so I am not sure I want to use them as I suspect battery life would be pretty short. Before I decide definitely does anyone use these and have any info about battery life etc?

Many thanks

John
12 August 2017 at 10:00 #72601
Empire Parkstone
Participant
@empireparkstone
Another point Dave and John is my weisel' s props are all the same hand and go in the same direction.That is how the guy made it and I had no problem also I have these 3 motors in a 1/24 PT 596
14 August 2017 at 09:48 #72623
John Edwards 18
Participant
@johnedwards18
propellers item no. 1382/11 and propeller item o, 1382/11aWell this seems to go from bad to worse. I sat last night reading the English instruction book that is in the kit. I listed the items that are not included to see if they are still available. Those include prop shafts, item 411 bearing support item 356/2 dual universal coupling item no. 475/4 propellers item no. 1382/11 propeller item no. 1382/11a I now know that this is the early version of the kit as it has cardboard tubes to make the torpedo tubes out of. The later models had pre-formed plastic ones. Anyway I googled all the items and the only 1 that is still available is 411 the prop shafts. I also found online a later set if instructions in English with the parts list that gave an alternative for the bearing support 356/2 now described as stern tube bracket item no. 2997.6. Those I found are available in Germany online. My wife suggested I give up but I don't give in that easily so I need some help to get alternatives to the above parts except for the prop shafts which are available online. In particular I need to know what propellers to get as from what I have seen online getting that wrong can have nasty implications for running. Help please. John
14 August 2017 at 11:17 #72624
John Edwards 18
Participant
@johnedwards18
At a loose end this morning so I have "googled" like mad and found couplings at Mobile Marine Models that seem to be pretty good. http://www.mobilemarinemodels.com

A simple solution which is why i like it, easily adjusted for length and the comments are that they run with much less noise than the normal universal joint couplings.

John
3 August 2019 at 07:04 #83235
captainslog
Participant
@captainslog
hi john, what an inspiration,just dug mine out from the back of the shed,been there since 1992 i think. it was bought in 1977 for passing all my o levels(except latin) and i built it in 1978. I only used 1 motor and shaft as i couldnt afford much then,too busy with courting and cars. i used a graupner speed 600 and 4 amp 6v battery with a hitech sp610 speed controller. the radio was a skyleader 27meg. it sailed brilliantly on 1 prop with a good turn of scaleish speed. enough for my enjoyment anyway. took me about 12 months to make in all. I dug the plans out along with both manuals,dated 1973. about 1990 i moved to minehead as a head chef in the red lion pub,opposite was a slipway,and i used to sail it on the sea opposite the pub as i had a room there. With a bit of careful sealing with vaseline(a full lift off deck) it was really watertight with very slight ingress of water. never could work out where it came from,untill now. a very slight gap in a rudder shaft seal. so after 40 years its back out and having a refit. took me nearly 1 1/2 hours to carefully clean the dust,grease,dogs hairs and mouse droppings. Its going to go back together as i built it then minus the skyleader,sadly thats got a bad case of blackwire and the deacs have had it. good luck with your build and if your stuck on anything just ask, but i wouldnt take any notice of the tracing paper sheet with radio installation, that applies only to the varioprop system in use at the time

keith
3 August 2019 at 07:08 #83237
captainslog
Participant
@captainslog
crikey, didnt look at the date of this first posting. never mind how did you get on john? probably married by now i suppose. apologies everyone,must start looking at the dates. nevermind, mines out of the shed now and on the work bench in the spare room.amazing what a bit of inspiration can do, otherwise it would still be in the shed, now where did i put the hitech sp610 controller?

keith
3 August 2019 at 23:44 #83252
captainslog
Participant
@captainslog
well work under way, hull interior has been stripped.i did notice that when all the sky leader stuff was taken out was the quality of the plywood i used back then(40 yrs) i really had to work at taking the sheet base out and it made me wonder what was was different then than what you buy today. there seems to be alot more laminations than what you buy today, it seems alot tougher as well. also i think the quality of araldite back then(which is what i used) seems far mor superior. less brittle over time than now. i digress, i also found some photos from when i sailed it back in early 80s, on the rier rhondda where it joins the taff at pontypridd on its way to cardiff. hopefully they will scan(no digital then it was 35mm slr. will post some shots hopefully.

cheers all
4 August 2019 at 08:58 #83254
captainslog
Participant
@captainslog
found a photo after all these years, not quality as i had to scan it,35mm slr zenith ttl camera,no digital in 1980,way out of my price range if there were. anyway it was taken in pontypridd on the river Taff/Rhondda where they join to form the Taff as 1 . will post some more as it stands now and hopefully end up as it should look. mind you, knowing now what i didnt know back then alot more detail can be added

keith
4 August 2019 at 15:09 #83267
captainslog
Participant
@captainslog
here we go again, trying to upload the pre revamp wiesel or whats left
4 August 2019 at 15:11 #83268
captainslog
Participant
@captainslog
i was going to repaint the hull but i think that the natural weathering on th paint work looks realistic. matt varnish maybe, just to seal?
4 August 2019 at 15:13 #83269
captainslog
Participant
@captainslog
the reason i didnt strip all the superstructure off is because i couldnt, it is well stuck down and also the weathering looks fine. i think this boat will look just great as it is.
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