Suitable large brushes for static boat hull

[John Arnold 3Participant @johnarnold3]

[John Arnold 3Participant @johnarnold3]

Hello again

Could someone please share with me the type and size of brush they use and what they recommend for painting model acrylic paint on a static model hull (about 14"/340mm long). I don't see many brushes as large as say 1/2" available in craft shops (and I thought that a brush of at least this size would be preferable for painting a larger area). Maybe one from a hardware shop?

Are the acrylic sealers for models generally sandable? I know that some acrylic paints are difficult to sand.

I am thinking maybe a 12mm (1/2&quot brush? And made of what? Synthetic? I know that at art shops many of the brushes are of natural but surely not hogs hair (sable?).

Thanks

[BanjomanParticipant @banjoman]

Hello John,

As I do most of my larger surface painting with an airbrush these days, my collection of brushes is not enormous, but in the past I have painted a similar size hull to yours by hand, using acrylic model paints, and for that job I used an Isabey kolinsky sable brush, round size 3, with a to me satisfactory result. This particular brush is one of my favourites, although after more than 30 years it is coming up to retirement now.

You are quite right to suspect that hog's hair brushes won't be much use to you — those are oil paint brushes, and will be much to stiff.

However, I would strongly recommend a visit to an good art supply shop if you have one within reasonable distance!

To my mind there is absolutely no question that top-of-the-line sable brushes from one of the well-known makers like Winsor & Newton are absolutely fantastic to work with. However, these are also very expensive — maybe 30 AUD for a number 3 or 4 — and there are also some excellent synthethics out there at maybe half the price or less.

I have decent experience of the Da Vinci Nova series of synthetics: **LINK** and will probably have a look at their sables soon, when I replace my old worn-out Isabeys.

However, I don't know what's generally available, brand-wise, down under, which is why I would really suggest a visit to an art supply shop, where you can both look at and feel the various types and sizes of brush, and also ask questions and more questions and get their suggestions. Basically, anything that'll be good for watercolour painting will do very well for model painting, too.

As for the shape of brush, you don't necessarily need a flat one to paint the hull. A round one in a slightly larger size (anything from 3 or 4 and upwards) will also work very well. A good quality, round size 4 will hold a surprising amount of paint, and will give very good flow in application, but will also provide precision where needed, thanks to its tip qualities.

As a rule of thumb I'd say it is better to buy fewer but better brushes, and that the most versatile round sizes for model work are those from 1 to 4, and in particular nos 2 and 3. With a quality brush, the tip on these will be good enough that you can paint really small stuff if you take a bit of care not to add too much paint to the brush, while when filled with paint, their bodies are substantial enough to carry fairly substantial amounts of paint. I do also have some 00 and 000 for really fiddly work, but use them much less often, and would consider them more in the line of nice-to-have than really essential.

Oh, and always, always, always clean your brushes after use! For acrylics, I use a standard liquid hand soap as cleaning agent! You can keep a pot of clean water on the table while working for just washing out excess paint, but once you're done, use soap under the tap to clean the brush thoroughly, and then re-shape the tip before you set the brush away to dry. I picked up the habit from my dad, who was an artist, to shape the newly-cleaned brush between my lips; it may taste a little of soap, but so far it hasn't killed me. Otherwise, use your fingertips, but in any case never, ever set your brush tip down in a jar or whatever — it will be ruined in no time!

As for sanding acrylic model paints, it can certainly be done, but you need to be sure that they are fully dry and hardened all the way through! Acrylics can be a tad tricky in this respect, as they dry from the outside in. They can thus be perfectly dry to the touch, and fine for putting on a new coat, but still not fully dry underneath. If you then try to sand on top, the paint can either start sliding or will react badly to the heat generated.

As always, if you're not sure about a technique or whatever, do a test piece! That way you can make mistakes and learn from them to your heart's content without putting your model at unnecessary risk …

Mattias

Edited By Banjoman on 23/01/2018 07:06:28

Edited By Banjoman on 23/01/2018 07:08:58

Edited By Banjoman on 23/01/2018 07:09:53

[Bob WilsonParticipant @bobwilson59101]

I often build models around the fourteen inch long size. Never having been much good at painting, or using an airbrush, I find that aerosol car sprays from Halford's UK are very good quality and easy to use. It does require careful masking off with paper masking tape. Here is spray job of red oxide primer for the underwater part of my passenger liner Kenya. It gives a real good finish. Usually when I describe my methods, the answer is "I could never do that!" but that is what I do, and it really is not all that difficult (unless you convince yourself otherwise).

Bob

Edited By Bob Wilson on 23/01/2018 07:48:07

[John Arnold 3Participant @johnarnold3]

Thanks Bob and Mattias,

I considered using aerosol paints for the hull but could not source them from two of the largest hobby shops near to me.

I do like the model you Bob have built.

Thanks Mattias for explaining about brush sizes and I have a large art supplies shop 3 miles away.

I was concerned that if I used too small a brush that it might be difficult to get a good result using acrylic paint with lots of overlapping brush strokes as acrylic paints tend to start dying so quickly. I found a video put out by Billings on the construction of the particular model I have and they showed using what I thought was a too small brush to paint the hull.

One further question. Most paint manufacturers market an acrylic thinner. Are they so very different from water which house acrylic paints are thinned with? Should water NOT be used to thin them and wash out brushes?

[Bob WilsonParticipant @bobwilson59101]

I see you are in Australia. I would image that your automobile accessories shops would have a large range of car spray paints similar to what we have in Halford's UK. The problem I have with airbrushes are that I do not like having to clean them after use, but that does not arise with spray cans!

Bob

[ashley needhamParticipant @ashleyneedham69188]

John. I agree with Bob here…air brushes are a fiddle to use and clean, spray cans so much easier!

​Re acrylic thinners…Hmmm…tricky one…if I were spraying acrylic I might use a proper thinner, but what's the difference to using water?? only the manufacturer would know I reckon. You could always try water and see what happens, should work in theory.

​Brushing, I use a synthetic bristle brush, something between 12mm and 18mm if I want a really flat surface and the surfaces ARE flat, sourced from an art shop. I find the drying is the issue, keeping dust off. I don't use acrylics on large surfaces and wonder how quickly they dry and whether this affects the self-smoothing of the paint with regard to any brush marks?

​Ashley

[BanjomanParticipant @banjoman]

John,

You're welcome!

Bob is of course right to point out the possibility of spray paints! Personally I don't like them very much, but that is not meant to suggest anyone else should stay clear of them, just because I do.

My personal reasons for not being too keen on spray paints are (a) I haven't used them much, and in consequence am not very good at applying them properly (a lack of practice that is of course entirely of my own doing); (b) the overspray is much more important than with an airbrush; (c) they usually smell rather strongly and often need to be applied outdoors; and (d) although you can get them from specialist shops mixed to any colour you want, you can't mix them yourself, which makes experimenting with shades of colour more difficult.

None of this is to say that they should be excluded from consideration — every technique has its drawbacks and advantages. You just need to try and figure out what is most important to you.

As for airbrushes, it is true that they require meticulous adherence to proper cleaning routines, or they will start acting up, giving problems or even refuse to work properly. Airbrush equipment can also be very expensive, so it is not something I would recommend unless your pockets are so deep it doesn't matter to you, or you know that it is a set of equipment that you will want to use for many years to come.

Bob is also quite right in saying that automotive spray paints are widely available and definitely worth considering if you want to spray paint. If you do opt for that, though, but have little or no previous experience, I would seriously suggest that you get a can or two and use those to paint old wine bottles or plank offcuts or whatever until you get a feel for how they handle and how the paint behaves. Getting curtain runs on a test peice is no biggie; on your model is no fun at all (although it can of course be remedied by sanding back). If they are solvent based, you also need to beware of pinholing (where solvent is trapped underneath too thick a layer of paint and when it dissolves leaves a small pockmark).

I reiterate: whatever technique you decide to go for, do test pieces first until you feel sufficiently confident about what you are doing to apply it to your model! It'll cost a wee bit more in paint and time, but makes for big savings on frustration and heartbreak …

Mattias

Edited By Banjoman on 23/01/2018 09:17:58

Edited By Banjoman on 23/01/2018 09:18:19

[Colin BishopModerator @colinbishop34627]

John,

As you will hve realised from the above, everyone has their own preferences on the basis of what works best for them. I do use automotive paints for primers and the red primer is a good match for underwater paint although it needs to be sealed.

When using fine enamel or acrylic paints I have had good results with the larger artists nylon flat brushes which are quite cheap, they have light brown bristles. The paint brushes out well and the nylon filaments are easier to clean than traditional brushes as the paint doesn't stick to them.

Colin

[John Arnold 3Participant @johnarnold3]

Thanks again everyone.

Ah yes automotive spare parts shops. Yes they have aerosol spray paint cans and I have used them in the past on cars (minor repairs) and didn't have any problems (apart from the fumes and having to mask with lots of newspaper for the overspray ).

I guess I could find the bottom of my pocket to afford an air brush system but I have to consider that this may be my first and last boat build and so probably not a good idea.

I have been trying out different coatings on scrap timber already (as you suggested). I have found that the 'sanding sealer' (suitable for furniture etc) which I purchased some time ago works ok on both pine and the 3-ply timber (deck) which came in the kit. I also tried it on some balsa wood (difficult to seal) and it worked well (2 coats) so I will probably seal the hull with it before applying the acrylic primer on order UNLESS one of you learned chaps suggests otherwise.

Why balsa wood I can almost hear you asking. I had to purchase a small piece of balsa wood to cut a 1mmX4mm strip to replace the incorrectly supplied 0.5mmX4mm pine strip – very annoying. Thankfully it was just one strip I had to replace.

I am still considering 'investing' in a 12mm synthetic brush for the hull as I am concerned with using a small brush requiring lots of 'strokes' using an acrylic paint especially as it is summer here in Australia and the past few days 35C-40C. I remember well painting the ballustrades on my outside patios/decks last year using acrylic paint and trying to prevent brush marks which was almost impossible. I do prefer enamel paint for that reason but prefer easy cleaning of brushes when using acrylics.

[Dave MilbournParticipant @davemilbourn48782]

If you use a simple external mix airbrush like the Badger 250 then cleaning it is not a big deal. You can wipe out the jar with a tissue then fill it with solvent and drop the nozzle, paint tube and gasket washer into it. Give the whole lot a good shake up then drain the solvent and dry the parts with kitchen roll. Occasionally give the nozzle and paint tube a poke around with a pipe-cleaner and solvent. If you develop this as a discipline then it really isn't much more of a bother than cleaning and drying a decent sable brush. The 250 and its larger brother the 250-4 is ideal for larger areas such as a hull. An expensive internal mix and/or dual action airbrush would be a waste of money for this sort of job.

I use Halfords car sprays for all but the small parts but they are getting eye-watering as regards price.

Dave M

(This was posted before I read your comment about it being your first and last model, but the advice is still valid for anyone else).

Edited By Dave Milbourn on 23/01/2018 10:24:46

[Ray Wood 3Participant @raywood3]

Hi John

I think when brush painting the environment is fairly important, I try to keep the work as level as possible for laying on coats of gloss, and cover the wet paint job in suitable cardboard box to prevent the general airborne dust settling on the work while it's drying, oh and don't wear a wool jumper while painting

Regards Ray

[John Arnold 3Participant @johnarnold3]

Sorry meant to mention in both my last message/post and previous ones that I wonder if acrylic paint 'behaves' the same way as acrylic paint for houses. House paint is quite thick and maybe model paint thinner which might be easier to paint without getting brush strokes.

And thanks Dave for your input. Yes car sprays are becoming quite expensive and here in Australia HOLTS brand paints are not available anymore so if you want a colour other than the standard white,red,black,yellow wtc you have to have them especially mixed (tinted) at over $A30/can.

[Colin BishopModerator @colinbishop34627]

Yes, model paint is thinner than house paint. The term 'acrylic' covers a lot of different paint types, many of them imcompatible with each other.

Colin

[Byron Rees…(Ron)Participant @byronrees-ron]

Hi John,

Just to add my pennyworth, A lot of modellers in the UK use Halfords spray acrylic primer paints for their hulls etc and as stated they are getting more expensive all the time, but they are very good. Someone wrote a short article in Model Boats mag a while ago and he had found that Halfords paint code of 650 could be found on some other makes. After some searching I found another company…called Autotek Professional that do identical finishes but at £5 for a big can. I can't tell the difference and they are easy to use. I'm sure there will be other makes that use this code somewhere too.

I have also found that good model acrylics like Tamiya and Valejo will brush paint well using a nice sable brush leaving hardly any noticeable streaks. I usually apply these paints with small 1/2 and 1 inch foam applicators which are designed for wood finishing with laquers, stains and polishes. I buy mine online. They wash out easily but you have to do it straight away.

While a lot of Acrylic paints can be cleaned while wet with water, it is not the medium that the paint is suspended in, so you need the proper acrylic thinners ideally for that brand of paint. Tamiya is a good example.

Because modern acrylic finishes are what they call 'Child Safe' you can buy colours in big plastic bottles in Art and craft shops and they have a lot of colour pigment in them for children to splash everywhere, but they are very similar to the small bottles of model paint maybe a bit thicker, and they will thin using water.. These are NOT to be confused with Poster paints!

All these finishes benefit from being oversprayed with a sealant coat of something like varnish, Gloss, Satin or Matt depending on the model;

Household Emulsion paints can be handy but are not quite the same as model hobby or toy paints.You can always tell when someone has used Dulux Brilliant White on their models. (Get your blowtorches out!)

I have seen some beautifully finished models where the builder has hand painted with Model Acrylics but it takes several thin coats, patience and a very good brush.

Cheers.

RON.

[John Arnold 3Participant @johnarnold3]

Thanks Ron.

Lots of good info there.

[BanjomanParticipant @banjoman]

John,

I should stress once more that I would not recommend anyone to spend large amounts on an airbrush system unless they really wanted one, and most emphatically not if it were for a one-off job!

There are budget ways of airbrushing, but those are not necessarily a realistic option for everybody (see below). The most expensive part of the system usually isn't the airbrush itself, but the air supply, at least if you have to get a silent compressor.

Compressed air is of course compressed air, and if noise is not an issue, you can get a garage type compressor with a large air tank for very reasonable money. With the addition of a good pressure regulator and a proper moisture/oil trap (an absolute must when painting, to keep the air dry and clean), this will give you more air than you'll ever need. It will also give you noise levels around 95 dB or worse! If this is not a problem (you live in a detached house and don't plan to run it a 2 am anyway), fine. If on the other hand you live in a flat with insufficient soundproofing (like I used to do), you may be obliged to look at the ultrasilent sort that makes around 40 to 45 dB of noise, and one of those babies can cost you 600 or 700 AUD. There are intermediate options, but they tend to be fairly noisy (55 to 65 dB) and cannot be too small (at least large enough to have an air tank) if you are going to paint anything much larger than a 1:35 plastic kit Sherman tank.

Personally I like airbrushing because it gives me the quality of sprayed-on paint with better control and less fumes than rattle cans. I use an internal mix, double action airbrush, and don't find cleaning it too much trouble: when putting on several coats of the same paint or varnish, in between coats I will just run liberal amounts of water through it, interspersed with two bouts of dedicated airbrush cleaner (the latter includes wiping off the tip of the needle with a cotton bud dipped in cleaner), and then leave it until the next coat with some airbrush cleaner sitting in the cup. This take about two minutes. Every three or four coats I do a dissassembly and full clean; this take me about five to eight minutes, tops.

Again, though, I would say, don't look at airbrushing unless you have sufficient reasons! The above is thus not ment as a suggestion but just as information.

I have found that all of the acrylic model paints I've tried so far (Vallejo Premium RC, Vallejo Model Color, Vallejo Model Air and Admiralty paints) have had excellent self-levelling properties, both from the airbrush (Premium RC and Model Air) and when applied with a brush (all four). Importantly, I have also remarked that this self-levelling goes on for much longer than it takes for the paint to become surface dry, I suppose because acrylics dry from the outside in. What looked nice and smooth already after half an hour, I have found to be noticably smoother yet after 24 hours and better again after three or four days. Then again, I have never tried to paint in the sort of temperatures that you mention, as Belgium doesn't often get that hot — whew!

Acrylics self-levelling can be further improved by adding some retarder to the paint. This can be either a generic acrylic paint retarder from a brand such as Liquitex (the art supply shop is likely to be a good source) or a dedicated one from the paint range you are using. I haven't yet experimented much with different mixes, but have had good results with 1 part retarder to three parts paint (i.e. a final mix of 25% retarder and 75% paint). You can of course mix this in any sealable container, but model paint type plastic bottles can be bought empty and tend to keep the paint useable for quite some time.

Mattias

Edited By Banjoman on 23/01/2018 11:55:44

Edited By Banjoman on 23/01/2018 11:57:59

Edited By Banjoman on 23/01/2018 12:03:12

Edited By Banjoman on 23/01/2018 12:04:06

[John Arnold 3Participant @johnarnold3]

I have just returned home from our local Art supply store empty handed.

I looked at all the paint brushes marked 3 and 4 and thought that they looked far too small for painting the hull and wondered are artist's brushes a different size to what Mattias (I think) suggested. They only looked about 3 or 4mm in diameter and I thought that it would take a LOT of brush strokes to cover the hull.

Also paint quantities. Most brands are either in 10ml or 17ml sizes. Working on house acrylic paint coverage I estimated that 17ml should cover about 300 sq mm but is this accurate? What is the average coverage for a 17ml container of acrylic model paint? 17ml sure isn't much.

Thanks again.

[BanjomanParticipant @banjoman]

Hello John,

If you found the 3 or 4 too small, surely they must have had other, larger, brushes, too, either round or flat?

As I think I wrote, I used a #3 to paint the (upper) hull of my build of the Caldercraft kit HMS Pickle (http://www.shipwrightshop.com/shop/contents/en-uk/p602.html), but when looking at one, you find it too small, well there are larger sizes! For larger brushes you might want to look primarily at synthetic ones, as sable quickly gets frightfully (as in hundreds of dollars) expensive in larger sizes.

I have never done any calculations to compare coverage between model and house paints, nor have I verified how large an area I could cover with a 17 ml bottle, but I have always been positively surprised at how much coverage I get out of them! There will be slight variations etween colours, depending on the pigments.

For some kind of clue, you kind have a look at the Admiralty paint sets sold by JoTiKa/Caldercraft for their various Napoleonic era men-o'-war kits: **LINK**.

Even the set for their largest kit, the 1:64 HMS Victory at 1385 mm long (**LINK**) is only a total of 14 jars of 15 ml each; the two main hull colours, black and yellow ochre, are 3 jars each.

It might well be that some builders need to purchase an additional pot or two, but really it is amazing how far these paints will go!

For another idea of coverage, have a look at page 3 of my Eilean Mòr thread (**LINK**) from a a few years ago. To paint that hull (with an airbrush, mind you, not a brush) I used a total of 120 ml of white primer (entire hull), 30 ml each of brown (deck and inner bulwarks) and black (hull topsides) and 40 ml of red (lower hull). The hull is about 850 mm long and 230 mm wide, and the paints used were Vallejo Premium RC.

If you can easily buy paints over the counter it is of course not too much of a problem anyway, because if you need one bottle more you just pop down to the hobby store for one; if you have to travel further for that, or buy online, I can of course see that you wouldn't want to get neither too much (waste of money) nor too little (waste of time and travel or p&p costs), but hopefully the above should give you some sort of clue to how much paint you would be likely to need?!

Mattias

Edited By Banjoman on 24/01/2018 06:47:54

Edited By Banjoman on 24/01/2018 06:48:18

[John Arnold 3Participant @johnarnold3]

Thanks Mattias,

Maybe it was someone else who suggested using a no. 3 or 4 brush on the hull.

ALTHOUGH when viewing the video put out by Billings for the Bluenose II 600 (the kit I have) the author/builder uses quite a small brush on the hull so maybe that it the 'normal' way to go. Have a look at this Youtube link and fast forward to around 4 minutes 30 seconds to where he paints the hull in the final coats **LINK**

It just looks a little strange to me.

It is quite a distance to my nearest hobby shop and so I need to order online.

Thanks for the links which I will checkout and read.

Also I have no idea how thin model paints are. Some brands state they can be used by air brush or brush straight out of the container which suggests that they are thin.

I have only used model paints for plastic kits (last century ) and I think they were solvent based.

Thanks again

John

[BanjomanParticipant @banjoman]

No worries, John

It was indeed I who suggested a #3 or #4, as that is what I have often used myself. I don't know if this is "normal" or not — I basically picked up a favourite tool I alredy had and got to work. All I can say is that it worked for me, but that is not to say that a larger brush wouldn't have been equally fine or even better.

As Colin said above, and as you may have begun to conclude, we all have our own preferences, not least when it comes to tools and materials, and there is no one single truth about what works best — so at one point or other you have to take the plunge and try your hand at something.

As also mentioned, if you decide to brush paint, you should preferably avoid any model paints that are specifically designed to be airbrushed, as those will indeed be quite thin. The ones intended primarily or in equal measure for brushing on will not be all that thin (and often require thinning down for airbrushing).

There is in fact a huge number of different model paints out there! I have a smartphone app called iModelKit that lists over 100 different brands and varieties, allowing one to compare hues and tints between brands. Personally, I have only used a very limited number of brands and varieties, as I have been satisfied with what I've first tried, and thus not looked further afield. This is why I keep mentioning the same brands and types of paint: I can only speak of that which I have tried!

Back in the day (1970s and 80s) I, too, painted plastic kits with Humbrol Enamels, as that was what was readily available. These days I prefer acrylics because they smell much less, and can be cleaned up after with water, but also because, when airbrushed, they don't fill the surrounding air with microscopic particles of very unhealthy solvents. Apart from that, Humbrol Enamels are still just what they used to be, and I have occasionally used them (with a brush) more recently too. I have never tried the Humbrol Acrylics, so have no opinion on them.

For a r/c model boat, the hull paintwork needs to be stronger than on a static model, as it'll be handled and transported much more and of course will go in the water. Here, my preferred paints are from the Vallejo Premium RC range (**LINK**). These paints can be applied with airbrush straight out of the bottle if one uses a large needle-and-nozzle size (I usually do, with a 0.6 mm needle; in comparison most plastic kit model airbrush painters use 0.15, 0.18 or 0.2 mm needles) but are also OK for brush application. Coverage is very good, and self-levelling excellent.

For non-hull parts on my r/c builds, in particular where the Premuim RC paint range has has too limited a palette, my go-to paint for brushwork is the Vallejo Model Color Range (**LINK**). Is you take a look at pp. 14 (**LINK**) and 15 (**LINK**) of my Eilean Mòr thread, you'll see how I used these paints to paint the crew members. The paint bottles you see in my photos there are all 17 ml ones, and to paint those crew members I literally used only drops of paint — the bottles remained almost intact fter painting was finished! Those paints cover really well!

For airbrushing non-hull parts, I have also used the airbrush-ready equivalent from the same company, called Vallejo Model Air (**LINK**). While these paints can also be applied by brush, they are really too thin to make that a worthwhile regular exercise, so don't bother as it were!

Finally, I have also, as mentioned, used Admiralty paints from JoTiKa/Caldercraft for painting my build of their HMS Pickle (no thread or photos available, I'm afraid). Again, these are fantastic paints for brush application (I doubt that they would work in the airbrush, unless very heavilly thinned down) with fantastic covering qualities; their only drawback is the very limited palette, as they're explicitely made to faithfully reproduce British man-o'war paints from the age of sail. Oh, and they're also less ubiquitous than the Vallejos, so might be harder to source.

Also, the Admiralty stains are the best I know for model work! More expensive than mix-your-own stains, but wonderful to work with and with fantastic covering, realistic colours and lovely depth of tone. One of those 15 ml bottles will go a very long way on masts and spars and suchlike!

I'll end this latest diatribe of mine by repeating that those are my experiences; there are many other brands of paint out there, and also other techniques like spray cans, with which other builders have been very happy. Ultimately, you need to choose an approach and find out for yourself what you think of it.

Good luck and good painting!

Mattias

[BanjomanParticipant @banjoman]

A further note about Vallejo paints: the only difference between the Model series (Color and Air) and the Game series (Model and Air) of which I am aware is the colours available in each range. The Model range leans heavily towards modern military subjects (i.e. lots of olive drabs, khakis and so on), while the Game range has more in the way of bright (even garish) colours for painting Fantasy figures. Composition-wise, I think they are exactly the same.

Mattias

[John Arnold 3Participant @johnarnold3]

Thanks again Mattias,

I had noted from a few posts ago to ensure I don't choose a paint marked 'air' and/or specifically for air brushing.

With that in mind I think also I should avoid those paints which area 'described' as suitable for both air brushing and brush painting straight out of the bottle/can as they surely must be on the thine side for brushing.

Unfortunately most of the paint brands which have been mentioned are not available at Australian hobby shops and the most of the ones which are come only in 10ml containers and as such would cost a lot for enough to paint the hull – small parts ok.

There is another brand not mentioned in these posts which two large hobby shops sell and that is AMMO by Mig Jimenez although they also are described as suitable for air brushing and brush painting so maybe keep clear of those.

Vallejo is sold here so maybe I should concentrate on their range although the on screen rendition of their HULL RED looks very dark **LINK**. Maybe lighten with a touch of White? Maybe they look different from what appears on a PC monitor?

Regards

John

[Byron Rees…(Ron)Participant @byronrees-ron]

Hi John and Mattias,

Ambient air temperatures and the amount of moistier in the air can have different effects on paints. Mattias' suggested 3 and 4 size brushes wouldn't allow John to get the paint on a large area in Australia where it is a warm and dry heat. My friend in Southern California has the same problems. This is where a slightly larger sable brush, about 1/2 inch would work better. Suppliers online of tools and brushes for the woodworking industry might be a good lead.

I'm sure you have some areas where there are car sprayer suppliers etc in Australia. Most of these paint suppliers can now Colour match paint using a type of Spectrum Analyser. The ones near me will match and mix Acrylic paints and formulate them for touch-up (Hand painting) or spraying. Generally, minimum quantities are about 500ml which in the UK is about £8 to £10 GBP.

They will also be aware of temperature and moisture problems in the area and can give advice. I know quite a few modellers who use these Car paint services here in Essex, and we have all been impressed with the paint pigmentation and quality. They can also mix with retarders to slow down drying where needed if you tell them or even show them what you want.

This might be an answer to your problem. (Ps they can also supply colours in 'Rattle Cans' in the one I use.

[BanjomanParticipant @banjoman]

You're welcome, John!

For what my opinion is worth, I think you could do much worse than try the Vallejo Model Color paints; both from my own experience of them and their relative avaiability, they are indeed what I would recommend you to get if you decide to brush paint!

Yes, their hull red is quite dark. Again, for a large part they cater to military modellers, including plastic WW2 era warships, and I've been made to undrestand that their hull red paint is intended tor that sort of use.

Mind you: traditional, red lead or iron oxide anti-fouling paint is quite darkish-brownish in colour! I know that many of the UK-based rattle-can users use red oxide car primer to represent this — see the photo Bob Wilson posted early on in this thread!

From the colour samples (which, as you rightly assume, very seldom gives a perfect representation on a computer screen of what the paint will look like in real life) available online, I think that a good Vallejo Model Color tint for a less dark, but still brownish-red hull bottom colour might be 70.982 Cavalry Brown. If you are not in a huge hurry, I'd be happy to pop in to my local model shop later this week, and have a look at the bottle to see what it looks like (I need to pick up some more supplies of other stuff anyway, but won't have time, I'm afraid, until tomorrow or Friday).

If, alternatively, you want to try your hand at mixing, I would not try to lighten the Hull Red with white, but rather start from a fairly standard red and turn it down to taste by mixing in reddish-brown paint (again, see p. 3 [**LINK**] of my Eilean Mòr thread for some experimenting along those lines, albeit with Premium RC paints).

70.957 Flat Red (or perhaps 70.909 Vermillion, 70.098 Carmine Red or 70.926 Red) might be a good place to start, mixed with things like 70.816 Ochre Brown, 70.818 Red Leather and/or 70.984 Flat Brown. In the end it very much depends on what sort of red you have in mind …

Mattias

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