Guardsman

[Fred Ellis 1Participant @fredellis1]

Hi One and All

This is my first post to this forum

I am building the Guardsman, I am using the vac-formed hull, now the thing is a few have said that the rudder is on the small side and that I will have trouble when I go astern, has any one had this problem?

If you have enlarged the rudder on your Guardsman by how much did you enlarge it?

Thanking you for any help that you can give

Fred

[Fred Ellis 1Participant @fredellis1]

Rudder

[redpmgParticipant @redpmg]

Hi Fred – sent you a PM re the rudder

[Richard SimpsonParticipant @richardsimpson88330]

To be perfectly honest I don't think I have a boat that steers very well when going astern. Some try but most take so long to head in the direction I want that I tend to use astern for simply giving myself more space to steer ahead again!

[John W EParticipant @johnwe]

Hi there Fred,

As is stated on another Forum, the reason I enlarged the rudder on the Guardsman was that I use this model for steering scale regattas and on a lot of these courses, they have a lot of reverse sections in them, this is where you have to sometimes go astern and touch a buoy/go into a dock etc.  As has already been stated on this forum there are not many single screw vessels that like to go astern in a straight line.

Here is a view of the extension that I made for the rudder to help my model go astern.

 

Edited By John W E on 12/07/2021 18:52:27

Edited By John W E on 12/07/2021 18:54:50

[neil hpParticipant @neilhp]

i owned a 56' narrow boat for ten years, and even that wouldn't go astern in a straight line……..its just a matter of going astern in little moves……..an inch or so at a time…………..but at least it is more realistic to the real vessel.

[Fred Ellis 1Participant @fredellis1]

Hi One and All

Thank you for your reply's, I see that a few of us are on the other forum as well.

I am now in a quandary as just what to do, I have long passed the steering competitions (if I went back I would use my old HFM ORSV) so do I make the rudder larger or do I keep it as per the plans?

I think I just may do the rudder just that bit larger but still within the design of the plane.

Thank you all for your help and advise.

Fred

[Tony HadleyParticipant @tonyhadley]

Hello Fred,

Some time ago, I built this model with a balsa hull. My rudder was a sheet of brass shim, cut to shape and folded over the brass rod. It was then epoxied together and clamped. Any tidying up of the edges was done with filler, then finished with the smooth file and emery cloth before painting.

The size was approx. 3mm over what the design shows. This was not really necessary as the handling is good whilst moving forward and what has already been said earlier is correct.

The problems I had with the rudder were not the shape, but the linkage. It took three attempts to get it right and they were due to me not removing enough balsa from the stern end bread and butter construction. This won't be a problem with a moulded hull.

Attached is a link to my build. I still have the model stored in the shed and must give it a clean up.

**LINK**

Wishing you every success with the build.

[Richard SimpsonParticipant @richardsimpson88330]

Fred, If you intend competing in steering competitions where astern stability may be important it may be worth enlarging the rudder. If you intend to use the model for just general sailing pleasure and even possibly an occasional steering competition where astern movements are not required then you could leave it as it is.

I can assure you that single screw full sized ships are not very stable going astern and invariably wind has more effect than the rudder does! This is partly due to the back end "walking" sideways as a result of a single large propeller creating a side ways thrust as it rotates. When you get competent at steering astern you can actually use this effect to your advantage and approach either from one side or the other in the knowledge that the stern will have "Walked" to the correct spot when it arrives at the opening. You will also find that the model "docks" easier one way around as a result of the rear end tucking in nicely once the bow has touched.

All part of the pleasure of handling single screw boats.

If you really want entertainment lean over the hand rails of a cruise ship during lifeboat drill and watch the new crew trying to get the boats in the correct position beneath the falls. Ship's Lifeboats sit almost on top of the water when they have no load in them and catch the slightest breath of wind and, with the prop so close to the surface, the walking effect is more pronounced. Many a happy hour spent watching that particular circus.

[Fred Ellis 1Participant @fredellis1]

Hi One and All

Tony and Richard thank you for for your comments, I have taken on board your advice.

I think I will now have a go at making my own rudder but just a few MM bigger,

Fred

[Richard SimpsonParticipant @richardsimpson88330]

Let us know how you go about making it Fred, I'm sure it will be interesting.

[Fred Ellis 1Participant @fredellis1]

Hi Richard

I was thinking of using some brass rod with some smaller rod going at right angles to the main rod, then cutting out the shape of the rudder in 1.5mm card which will have the brass rig sandwich in between.

Hope that makes sense.

Fred

[Richard SimpsonParticipant @richardsimpson88330]

Sounds good, you need a strong joint between the two rods to ensure that not all the turning load ends up on the main rudder stock.

[Fred Ellis 1Participant @fredellis1]

Hi One and All

Thank you to Richard I am now able to post photos. This is how I went about making the rudder.

[Richard SimpsonParticipant @richardsimpson88330]

Lovely job Fred, glad you got the pictures sorted out. You've got the internal strength sorted perfectly.

[ashley needhamParticipant @ashleyneedham69188]

Fred. Yes nice job, but….Why not just use brass sheet soldered to the shaft?

Ashley

[Fred Ellis 1Participant @fredellis1]

Hi One and All

Yes all sorted now thanks to you Richard, looking at the photos I think I could have moved the top one up a bit?

Hi Ashley I just did not have any to hand, and it would have been around trip of three hours to Sussex Models, as I had some brass rod and tubing in the scrap bin along with some card, I used that instead so saving me three hours.

Fred

[redpmgParticipant @redpmg]

Good job Fred – glad you are getting along with the build – should be a great model if you take the same care with everything else.

[Fred Ellis 1Participant @fredellis1]

Hi One and All

Just to say thank you for all your comments and advice,

Keep safe

Fred

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