Build the Bismarck – Hachette magazine-model

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Build the Bismarck – Hachette magazine-model

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7 September 2007 at 06:42 #10559
Neal Moodie
Participant
@nealmoodie37248
Has anyone started building this 1/200 scale model?

How does this model (by Amati) compare with other kits – from a quality aspect?

Do you know if it’s possible to acquire the whole kit in a one-off purchase, rather than through 140 issues of the magazine?

Thanks,

Neal Moodie
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16 September 2007 at 20:57 #10597
Ian_G Hughes
Participant
@ian_ghughes13480
Hi Neale

I have posted to the beginners thread on this topic. I have almost finished the hull but I have used some of my own methods and materials. I have also added 1/16 sheet balsa as the armour plating to make it more noticable.

As far as I know it is not available as a one-off kit. Pity, because at 71 years of age I doubt if I will see the model completed.

Cheers
17 September 2007 at 19:45 #10602
Ian_G Hughes
Participant
@ian_ghughes13480
Hi again Neal

To answer your question [you can see I am new at this] I think that all new PoF kits are not as good as they were. Probably to keep costs down. Planking used to be mahogany, now it is obechi or lime.

Many, many years ago I built a Billing’s Lilla Dan. What a beautiful kit. Soak the planks for 20 mins then pin to frames using Cascamite adhesive. About 10 years ago I built a Billing’s Viking Longship for my wife. What a difference. The times I nearly threw it on the fire because of my frustration with the planking.

As for Hachette’s Bismark, I am not happy about the following.

a} Ply used for frames too hard and does not readily accept pins

b} Planks are too short. I used 36" lengths of softwood of the same size.

c} All planks cannot be clamped to frames while glueing so pins have to be used

Cheers

Ian G.
18 September 2007 at 07:59 #10606
Neal Moodie
Participant
@nealmoodie37248
Thanks for the information Ian.

I’m still undecided as to whether or not to go ahead with this.

I had a look at the Aeronaut kit – on the internet- but on the picture I saw,the scuttles (portholes) on the forward superstructure appeared somewhat oversized, which has put me off their kit.

Regards,

Neal
18 September 2007 at 21:05 #10610
Ian_G Hughes
Participant
@ian_ghughes13480
Hi Neal

Sorry. Can’t help you. have never seen the Aeronaut kit, nor have I ever built one.

I have just finished planing the hull and next step is to fill gaps [and there are many!] with Isopon. Then I will sand it smooth. After that I think I will clad it with fine mesh bandage and Polyurethane Matt varnish as opposed to glass fibre and resin.

Hope to upload some pix when I have learned how!

Cheers

Ian
18 September 2007 at 22:06 #10612
The Long Build
Participant
@thelongbuild
Hi Neal

There is a very good write up about the Bismarck – Hachette magazine-model on the Model Mayhem site..www.modelboatmayhem.co.uk
18 September 2007 at 22:08 #10613
Vinnie Branigan
Participant
@vinniebranigan92297
Clickable links are always better!

Model Mayhem

Vinnie
19 September 2007 at 06:49 #10615
Neal Moodie
Participant
@nealmoodie37248
Thank you all for the info.
15 October 2007 at 20:31 #10779
Manxman
Participant
@manxman
HI Neal

I’ve been watching this build and it looks very good, loads of etched brass work to come and the detailing seems to be very good

Both Vinnie and Larry never mentioned two other build sites, these are :

http://www.buildthebismarck.co.uk/index.html

this is and English site and is upto week 31 – also try

http://www.subifa.de/heftvorschau/die_bismarck_aktuell.htm

this is a German site and upto week 58 (they are ahead of us with their issues)

I like watching Martins build on Mayhem – reminds me of my kids when they were younger and came home with models they had made in school – dripping with glue ! – sorry Martin.

Cheers – Ken
20 November 2007 at 09:44 #11166
Robert McHutchion
Participant
@robertmchutchion86666
hi neal,

i am doing the bismarck parts build and am on issue 28, most here in england are around 34-35, but i deliberated for a month whether to do her or not. as a novice, again, (sic) at 49 decided to have a go at modelling again and having only done plastic before am enjoying this very much.

the first build site mentioned above is great, lots of info and methodology from young and old. there is even a chap with issues1-35 on offer for £60 ono,

anyway she is looking pretty good right now with first layer of planking on and superstructure just started.

come on aboard the site, their great chaps

regards robert
20 November 2007 at 17:46 #11179
Anthony Rumsey
Participant
@anthonyrumsey39979
my goodness that looks hard work im glad i am building my bismarck with a fibre glass hull been on it for 4 years might be done next year total cost about £1600 pounds ouch….
21 November 2007 at 13:46 #11199
Archibald Mainstream
Participant
@archibaldmainstream22940
This kit is not without its problems and concerns as so many are, thus far I have found.

Portholes are incorrect in number and location when compaired to photos, Hachette will issue a corrected template, alas this also contains errors in location and numbers.

It is shown that the plywood overlays for the portholes overlap the deck by half of the deck thickness. Why is not explained, could this be for PE railings to be installed at the end? if not blending it int o the deck is going to be intersting. The link below shows my point.

http://www.subifa.de/heftvorschau/die_bismarck_h42.htm
21 November 2007 at 13:47 #11200
Archibald Mainstream
Participant
@archibaldmainstream22940
Resin stern part 70 has the anchor pocket too low, in issue 35 a corrected part is supplied called part 70a. This is approximetly 1mm too wide for the hull, but at least the anchor pocket is in the correct position.

The resin moulding supplied are slightly out of shape, a pair of vernier calipers and set square on part 70 will show the moulding does not have a 90 degree corner where it butts up to part 66 and the rear bulkhead, ( if built to instructions is at 90 degrees).

Part 66 is too wide and needs to be sanded back flush with the deck edge.

The resin piece part 67 is wedge shaped when measured across the back face. the base it sits on is flat if built to the instructions, to make it fit you either sand the resin part or the base.

In issue 28 parts 118 and 117 are too long by 1mm. So when this is mated to part 114 as shown in step 20 there is a 1mm gap between part 120 and part 114. It is unclear which is the best route to follow chop off 1mm to make part 120/144 flush or leave it. We don’t know what comes next.

Sloppy fit of parts is becoming a habit with tolerances of 0.5-1mm in fit spread throught the superstructure.

In issue 61 the deck overlays start to arrive, the printed planks are good but some of them taper to a point where they meet the margin planks. I have not seen this on a ship, they are usually joggled in to the margin plank. The overlay in issue 60 has the print registation off to one side leaving the circle looking lopsided. Looking at the pictures in this link will make things clear, hopefully.

http://www.subifa.de/heftvorschau/die_bismarck_aktuell.htm
21 November 2007 at 13:47 #11201
Archibald Mainstream
Participant
@archibaldmainstream22940
Apparently the R/C has fit problems, the slots in the frames are too small by around 2mm. The motor mounts are recommended to be epoxied to the hull. Not exactly a secure fitting.

The amount of photo etch is enormious, as this can be converted into a sailing model according to Hachette/Amati. With the amount of PE that is fitted there are concerns that there may be too much weight above the water line, making the model unstable. We shall see in about 2-3yrs time when this series finishes.

Another concern is the rudders for the R/C version are made from laminated plywood, these have to be made watertight to prevent them falling apart, resin would have been a better material. Also the rudder posts are just epoxied into slots in the laminations, if care is not taken during use they could roatate on the rudder post.

A question which has been asked to Hachette is how are they going to prevent water ingress as the deck sits on top of the hull, with the join running longtitudally along the hull. the answer so far is that they suggest to fit a piece of rubber on the inside? further details are not forthcoming as to how this will look/work.

There are also lots of little oddities like trying to blend in the wooden hull with the resin parts to make the join invisable is not easy.

Leaving the painting to last, it would be better to paint as you go, trying to mask off the decks would be difficult if using an airbrush or spray cans.

Covering up the grain to make a smooth surface is not mentioned as is waterproofing it if it is to be used for sailing.

Those who have built a plank on frame hull will notice how the joins in the planking are all above each other resulting in several weak points.

The foredeck is glued on several issues before it is shown in issue 20 to coat the inside with gauze bandage and pva glue, is this supposed to help structural strength or waterproofing. You cant get at the bit under the foredeck so it is pointless.

These are just some of the problems encountered it is up to the individual to make their mind up if this kit is worth it or indeed accurate. This may sound negative but it is worth pointing out the problems encountered so far.
21 November 2007 at 13:49 #11202
Archibald Mainstream
Participant
@archibaldmainstream22940
This kit is not without its problems and concerns as so many are, thus far I have found.

Portholes are incorrect in number and location when compaired to photos, Hachette will issue a corrected template, alas this also contains errors in location and numbers.

It is shown that the plywood overlays for the portholes overlap the deck by half of the deck thickness. Why is not explained, could this be for PE railings to be installed at the end? if not blending it int o the deck is going to be intersting. The link below shows my point.

http://www.subifa.de/heftvorschau/die_bismarck_h42.htm
21 November 2007 at 14:16 #11204
Pete Thompson
Participant
@petethompson59257
Blimey, sounds like a kit to steer well clear of!
21 November 2007 at 14:58 #11206
Archibald Mainstream
Participant
@archibaldmainstream22940
I have spotted another interesting point. Have a look at how the 2nd layer of planking falls directly under the resin parts in issue 35

http://www.subifa.de/heftvorschau/die_bismarck_h35.htm

Now have a look at issue 42 when the porthole overlays are fitted. It looks like the 2nd layer of planking has moved down to accomodate the overlays?

http://www.subifa.de/heftvorschau/die_bismarck_h42.htm

It could mean that you have to cut away some of the planking to make the overlays fit, if so wouldn’t a better way be to make sure there is enough clearence for the porthole overlays to fit without cutting into the 2nd layer.
21 November 2007 at 15:08 #11208
Archibald Mainstream
Participant
@archibaldmainstream22940
A german build forum has reported a tolerance problem

http://bismarck.oehm.net/index.php?ta=conhtml&obj=062062&st6=z&stnr=6&sp=2&titel=Ausgabe%2062

It will be intersting to see if any builders in the UK see the same problem. With a kit of this complexity one persons problem may not be replicated with others. Human nature I suppose.

One thing that does concern people is that in the UK we are about 25% of the way through. How many more problems lie ahead? some would say that is one of the pleasures of building modle boats, others would say that for around £700 everything should fit and be perfect. I’ll leave it up to the individual to make their own mind up.
21 November 2007 at 16:42 #11211
Model Boat Mayhem
Participant
@modelboatmayhem15613
I must admit I’m enjoying the build…. even with all it’s problems…..
21 November 2007 at 16:44 #11213
Archibald Mainstream
Participant
@archibaldmainstream22940
These couple of observations might be of interest.

The RC pack supplied is not as per advertised, it only includes two prop shafts not three, the 3rd prop is mounted on a naff plastic screw and the rudder has been changed to a three layer ply laminate in place of the nylon 1 piece units. The backing board for issue 1 & 2 and the pullout all say the decking planking was to be thin laser cut limewood planks, yet they supply a printed overlay.At the end of the day it is up to the individual to make their own mind up as to how good this kit is depending on thier expectations.
21 November 2007 at 16:54 #11215
Archibald Mainstream
Participant
@archibaldmainstream22940
But when I have to pay £700 I expect a little more perfection than we are getting with this kit. Those who are getting pr freebiees will hardly complain.
22 November 2007 at 09:06 #11245
Archibald Mainstream
Participant
@archibaldmainstream22940
I am amazed when trolling through the various web sites concerning building this kit that several of them do not acknowledge the problems and faults found. One site in particular removes any posting that criticises any aspect of this model and the poster gets banned, not ecactly condusive to free and open speech more like a dictatorship.

There are a lot of web builds which are a long way behind what is dropping through the letterboxes. Therefore there function is somewhat limited, unless your’e in a country which has only just started the series.

In the pull out in issue 1 there are several pictures showing the deck a light tan colour on what we were led to belive was a representation of the model we are getting, all of a sudden the deck overlays are supplied a dark brown colour. Yet this model was advertised as museum quality. How can that be with all the various problems uncovered so far.

One glareing omission was the ‘eyebrows’ over the portholes on the hull, they are dipicted on the PE attached to the superstructure. but they are not shown on the overlay glued to the hull, perhpas Amati decided they were too ‘fiddely’ to apply. But they are clearly shown on several archive photos.
22 November 2007 at 11:51 #11256
Mark b
Participant
@markb22980
Despite a few problems that are not too difficult to solve, this is an enjoyable build and will produce a stunning model at the end. If a perfect kit exists, then I’ve never seen it.

If anybody is building the model and wants to join a friendly and constructive forum dedicated to the Amati Bismarck, then please come on over.

Kind regards

Mark
22 November 2007 at 12:41 #11261
Archibald Mainstream
Participant
@archibaldmainstream22940
The problems I have listed are not what I would call few in number and some are far from easy to solve. All of what I have posted can be checked, as for the perfect kit some peoples modeling experience can appear limited. Problem free kits do exist you need to know what you are looking for and how to build it.

As for a stunning model it might be, but I have yet to see any evidence from Amati they have a fully completed working radio controlled model.
22 November 2007 at 13:13 #11262
Pete Thompson
Participant
@petethompson59257
Hi Mark

Interesting forum you have there, seems to be full of yes men.

Surely the kit should have no problems to solve based on the fact that this model seems to have been advertised as being a kit build suitable for the novice, the idea of the series I dont think was that you had to join a build forum to work out the problems.

From what Daryl has posted it sounds like a mediocre kit has been supplied at a very high cost to the builder which makes it poor value for money in my book, for £700+ the kit should be spot on.

One thing that should not be an issue is the advertising of parts or detail that you do not actually get, you can make your own mind up about what that amounts to.

What puzzles me a little is why you seem to support a manufacturer or supplier if you know there are problems, its great your forum offers advice on how to overcome any problems, but on the other hand I would hardly give a glowing report on a model with problems if that makes sense, by chance is your web site supported or funded by Amati or Hachette?

I cant say I would take up on one of these weekly colect kits as all you ever seem to read or hear about them is bad press & problems be it regarding the model or its supply.
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