Are Waterproof servos Waterproof?

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1 August 2013 at 15:03 #42558
Tony Bell 2
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@tonybell2
For the final part of my research into Sail Drum Servos, I have been looking at the terms "Waterproof, Dust Tight and Water Resistant".

They are meaningless terms as they are not quantified.

Below I have Ranked "Water Resistance" as defined by the depth and duration of immersion. (Similar to that use for watches but simpler)

0 – No Resistance to water leaks.

1 – Top = Immersed upside down to the servo's mounting points for 1 hour.

2 – Bottom = Immersed upto the mounting points for 1 hour.

3 – 100mm = Immeresed upright to 100mm depth for 1 hour.

4 – 300mm = To 300mm for 10 hours.

5 – 1m = To 1m for 10 hours.

6 – 10m = To 10m for 10 hours.

I would be interested in your comments in this method of clarifying what is meant by "Waterproof"

Tony
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1 August 2013 at 15:03 #5244
Tony Bell 2
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@tonybell2
1 August 2013 at 15:10 #42560
Paul T
Participant
@pault84577
Tony

As an engineer I agree that the present system is pointless.

Paul
1 August 2013 at 15:34 #42562
Dave Milbourn
Participant
@davemilbourn48782
Not a lot of point having a servo that will withstand total immersion to 10M without a receiver and switch harness that will do the same. I can't think of any of those offhand.
As an ignoramus I'm not aware of any present system other than advertisers' B-S.
My Dad once had a very expensive watch which was shockproof, waterproof, dustproof, crushproof etc. He lost it.
DM
1 August 2013 at 17:48 #42564
Paul T
Participant
@pault84577
Dave

As usual you add your comments with wit and a sprinkling of pathos (look it up Ashley) however Tony does have a valid point.

As a prominent and much respected industry insider perhaps you could tell us just how waterproof the servos are.

Paul
1 August 2013 at 17:48 #42565
Tony Bell 2
Participant
@tonybell2
Yes I agree 10m is a bit excessive.

But what would be acceptable Rating 3 = 300mm or 2 = servo bottom?

Receivers should be made water resistant to the same rating. Why shoud you have to wrap it in a bag,?

Now here's an interesting point. If you buy a receiver from a supplier who only sells R/C marine products and you get it wet, do you have the legal right of a repair as the receiver design is "Not fit for Purpose" ie being used in a boat which can get wet? Do the suppliers supply a purpose made bag?

Tony
1 August 2013 at 20:51 #42573
Dave Milbourn
Participant
@davemilbourn48782
Unlike Tony Bell I've never felt the need to test any servos for this feature. The ones I use – along with (I suspect) nearly everyone else – are neither made nor held out for sale as suitable for any particular application other than, say, high torque. I am under no illusions that they would be waterproof by any reasonable definition, and so I simply mount them out of the way of normal water ingress i.e. above the bilges. One day I guess I'll have a sinking but, to date, I’ve not lost one servo to H20.

Common sense dictates that reasonable precautions should be taken against possible water damage. For example, I sail on the cooling pond of a pumping station where the water is seldom rougher than a flat calm. Flooded decks are rare.

If I sailed at Fleetwood, right next to the Irish Sea, then I suspect things would be different. I might, if so inclined, spend twenty eight quid a throw on Hitec’s HS646WP which is claimed to be waterproof to IP67 (now there’s a standard to conjure with). If that were to suffer electrical breakdown which could be traced to water ingress then I’d be at Servo Shop’s door with a big stick the very next day. However I am as tight-fisted as the next guy and the bottom line is very tempting, especially if it reads four for thirty quid. So I just build my models with a decent coaming and tight hatches and trust to Neptune for the rest. Eight quid to replace a servo is hardly a huge expense, after all. Far cheaper to fit the entire radio system into a sandwich box, surely? It should also be emphasised that I don’t sail any models at a depth of 10 metres…

Similarly I'm not aware that any manufacturer or retailer claims that a receiver sold as "marine" is guaranteed to be waterproof – whatever that might mean. To expect it to be so is either touchingly naïve or just plain dumb e.g. how do you waterproof the connections between servos and receiver without putting it in a purpose-made bag?

Round here they say that you don’t get owt fer nowt. It’s worth remembering that, unless you have a lot of time on your hands.

Dave M

Edited By Dave Milbourn on 01/08/2013 20:53:50

Edited By Dave Milbourn on 01/08/2013 20:54:12
1 August 2013 at 22:22 #42576
ashley needham
Participant
@ashleyneedham69188
Paul, I don`t do pathos or at least i would sooner have a naan with my Madras.

Waterproof servos. . Stop the water getting in the boat, best bet. Actually, I dont often DO boats, not for a while at least. Most things are splashproof I find.

Ashley yes yes…define "splash"
1 August 2013 at 22:40 #42578
Colin Bishop
Moderator
@colinbishop34627
Ashley yes yes…define "splash"

A touch of perfume behind the ears maybe….

Colin
1 August 2013 at 22:57 #42579
Dave Milbourn
Participant
@davemilbourn48782
Pathos? One of the three musketeers?
2 August 2013 at 00:08 #42581
Tony Bell 2
Participant
@tonybell2
I sell R/C products and unfortunately taught Consumer Law. I have carried out my extensive research so I can give my customers legally correct product information such a speed at 20% load, not speed at no load and torque at stall.

I immersed four servos in a one meter pipe and left them there for 24 hours. They all filled with water. Hitec 785, GWS 125, HobbyKing VSD-22ymb and my own Digital servo.

To the three musketeers, A moral Maze Question.

Should I go back to my customers and tell them that my digital servos are not waterproof even though my sales info says they are?

Ashley, please define "Splashproof" so I can carry out tests to see if my servo will pass the test.

Tony
2 August 2013 at 08:31 #42588
Dave Milbourn
Participant
@davemilbourn48782
Should I go back to my customers and tell them that my digital servos are not waterproof even though my sales info says they are?

Tony
I doubt if IP67 will mean much to the average RC modeller, and immersing a sailwinch under 1M of water is not a practical operating situation. I think you'll find that most of them, like me, are of a more pragmatic tendency. That said, I'd advise you to back off the "waterproof" word just in case you meet one who isn't.
Dave M

Edited By Dave Milbourn on 02/08/2013 08:32:21
2 August 2013 at 08:35 #42589
Michael Sheridan
Participant
@michaelsheridan92093
IP ratings are the standard of many years so why not use those?

Splash proof will be IPx4. (The x is the solids number and will usually be a 5 or 6.)
2 August 2013 at 08:43 #42591
Michael Sheridan
Participant
@michaelsheridan92093
Posted by Dave Milbourn on 02/08/2013 08:31:53:

That said, I'd advise you to back off the "waterproof" word …

I'd agree with that. Way back in time watch makers started using "water resistant" instead because "proof" suggests no limits.
2 August 2013 at 09:19 #42594
Trevor Holloway
Participant
@trevorholloway99134
I had my yacht sink and all the electrics were immersed until we got it back to shore, I just opened the receiver and servo cases, shook out the water and left the lot in the airing cupboard for 24 hours.

Once reassembled they worked fine.

I would not expect any R/C electronics to work submerged, even those sold as "marine" or water resistant / proof, even with an IP rating, and I understand them.
2 August 2013 at 10:27 #42598
Dave Milbourn
Participant
@davemilbourn48782
Trevor
Exactly! The only addition I would make to your comments would be that salt water should be rinsed out thoroughly under a running tap before allowing the units to dry. I'd also critically examine such things as battery packs wrapped in heat-shrink tubing for signs of water droplets under the covering. If in doubt strip off the heat-shrink, dry out the pack and then re-cover with fresh tubing.
Dave M

Tony
Fill yer boots, m'duck…..http://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/ip-ingress-protection-d_452.html

Edited By Dave Milbourn on 02/08/2013 10:32:47
2 August 2013 at 10:34 #42599
LARRY WHETTON
Participant
@larrywhetton68737
Here is a waterproof version classed as a tight as ducks a…se……

the other spash proof deck mounted servo smeared with a litle vasaline ,

still works ok , but as Ashley as stated keep the wet stuff out in the first place,

and carry out after sailing service cheers Larry…
2 August 2013 at 11:56 #42600
Tony Bell 2
Participant
@tonybell2
Thanks for the comments.

So we are all agreed that it is illegal for retailers to describe a servo as being "Waterproof" or "Dust Tight, Water Resistant, Splashproof"

Thanks for the link to IP ratings but they are specific for electrical enclosures. The rating system for watches is also not applicable. They are just too complex for R/C boating consumers.

So what's wrong with my rating system if we exclude 10m. The system is not about using servos under water but what happens if your hull fills with water. You cannot put a plastic bag around it as you can with all other electrics.

Put yourself in the position of a new customer, how would you describe the servo's water resistance capability?

Edited By Tony Bell 2 on 02/08/2013 11:57:32

Edited By Tony Bell 2 on 02/08/2013 11:57:55

Edited By Tony Bell 2 on 02/08/2013 11:58:34
2 August 2013 at 11:59 #42601
Trevor Holloway
Participant
@trevorholloway99134
Put yourself in the position of a new customer, how would you describe the servo's water resistance capability?

Minimal / non-existant !
2 August 2013 at 13:06 #42606
Dave Milbourn
Participant
@davemilbourn48782
Put yourself in the position of a new customer, how would you describe the servo's water resistance capability?

Academic and largely irrelevant.
DM
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