Expression of interest in Cutty Sark Plans taken from actual ship

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30 May 2021 at 09:59 #95825
Richard H Dunn
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@richardhdunn
Hello all

I want to put out some feelers on this as I know this has been done to death but have a read of what I have to say and let me know if it worth my while to do this.

Back in 2011-2012 I was involved in the Cutty Sark restoration , my role was to do some 3d modelling from measurements and scan data of the ship, yes we scanned the ship in 3d.

I know the ship is still a common subject for model builders and like myself I have over the years seen, purchased, drawn many lines plans of her in an attempt to get her hull correct, I know some might say, hey how accurate do you have to be but if you are like me and want accuracy then here is the problem, there are a number of lines plans out in the world for sale, the ones used in her restoration in the 50,s are good but not 100% in terms of lines, I purchased set from a company 2 years ago as they looked amazing and very well presented but was really upset to find a huge error in the lower hull form and the structure of the decks, that being the diagonal ties of her main and tween deck beams. The problem is that they show a huge concavity in the rise of floor which was not there in the actual ship. I contacted these guys ages ago and asked them if they would consider allowing me to alter the plans but they decided they were right and I was wrong and that was that.

Now the issue I have is I took templates of the frames as well and photographed /measured them so I know 100% they are incorrect and careful studying of them will make this apparent as well,

My question is now that I have 3d scan of the hull that clearly has all detail in it if I was to produce an accurate set of lines and hull construction would it be something that would sell?

Edited By Richard H Dunn on 30/05/2021 10:00:41

Edited By Richard H Dunn on 30/05/2021 10:02:17
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30 May 2021 at 09:59 #4741
Richard H Dunn
Participant
@richardhdunn
30 May 2021 at 10:00 #95826
Richard H Dunn
Participant
@richardhdunn
I even have measurements of the deadwood parts, it was all measured and documented

I have worked in naval Architecture and can assure the job is done properly but I don’t want to spend several days doing this if it’s not going to gain any interest from ship lovers.

I am happy to provide evidence and images of the work done to any interested people if you PM me.

Edited By Richard H Dunn on 30/05/2021 10:02:45
30 May 2021 at 10:18 #95827
Richard Simpson
Moderator
@richardsimpson88330
Richard I suspect the best people to approach are those in the business of selling the plans. Obviously there is Brown, Son & Fergusson, as I mentioned before and plans specialists which I am sure others will be able to identify better than me but what about such bodies as 'The National Maritime Museum' in Cornwall, the Historic Dockyards in both Portsmouth and Chatham or even one of the big national museums in London, all of which sell plans through their retail outlets. There is also Sarik Hobbies who sell plans.

Many years ago I purchased a beautiful set of HMS Victory plans from the Historic Dockyard in Portsmouth from their on site shop.
30 May 2021 at 12:45 #95829
Colin Bishop
Moderator
@colinbishop34627
I think they might sell, but not in very large quantities. There is of course the marketing issue. People like Model Boats Magazine, who licence their plans to Sarik tend to buy plans in for a fixed sum so you would essentially hand over the copyright yourself to these vendors.

If you try to sell direct then reaching your market is likely to be a problem. EBay is a possibility but is not a specialist maritime site of course so you would be reliant on people making internet searches. Forums such as this are unlikely to generate more than a few sales as not many modellers scratch build square riggers these days (if they ever did!).

Also, are there any issues around you selling plans/research presumably commissioned as part of the restoration work? In other words, would you possess full copyright over the material you are selling?

Colin
30 May 2021 at 18:33 #95834
Paul T
Participant
@pault84577
Richard

To expand upon Colin's comments and having considerable experience in the matter of surveys and drawings I can categorically state the the copyright relating to the survey lies with the person or company that commissioned said survey.

These copyright holders could be the Thames Nautical Training College, The National Historic Fleet or some governmental body.

I very much doubt that any of these bodies would look kindly on your selling drawing information without their express permission. I would strongly suggest that you locate the relevant body and inform them of your plans, at this point it is highly likely that the owner will either refuse or ask you to buy a licence to use the information.

Sorry to be the bearer of bad news but it is better to be pre-warned before you find yourself on the sticky end of some serious litigation.

Paul

Edited By Paul T on 30/05/2021 18:34:25
30 May 2021 at 19:28 #95838
Ray Wood 3
Participant
@raywood3
Hi Richard,

I'd agree with the foregoing comments on copyright etc, SARIK plans service market a plan by Edward Bowness for Cutty Sark but at quite small scale, and they also do Aerial plans by FW Boyd for a similar ship 46" long, I also think the day of the large numbers scale sailing ship modellers has gone really leading to the demise of Model Shipwright magazine excellent for so many years ago. Our Bob Wilson has always tried to whip up some comments from forum followers on sailing ships to not much avail !!

Plus Cutty Sark & HMS Victory have been modelled to death and lots of kits produced over the years.

Just as a matter of interest Model Boats no longer markets new feature plans to buy from/via Sarik, this also includes many of the free plans contained within the MB magazine recent issues.

Sorry it's a negative response for me !!

Regards Ray
30 May 2021 at 21:33 #95840
Richard H Dunn
Participant
@richardhdunn
Thanks for the response guys
I will not bother except for my own interest, if I ever get time, by the way all the issues raised are dealt with, part of the reason I had to wait so long and one of the terms I did the work for as a volunteer.
I should have said something about my being able to do the work, that is not the issue here, and did not think it important to bring up as I work on Architectural projects for a living now and fully aware of copyright law I am a Architectural visualization artist full time (sorry) but all I wanted to know was about interest.

Thank you for pointing it out had I not been and I had been someone who had not done this sort of work before it would have been an eye opener.

Anyway question answered for now

Thanks

Edited By Richard H Dunn on 30/05/2021 21:40:16

Edited By Richard H Dunn on 30/05/2021 21:40:49
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