Fast. Faster. Fastest?

Fast. Faster. Fastest?

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  • #69567
    John Stedman
    Participant
      @johnstedman46006

      We make many models as part of our work as architects. Recently we've been looking at the possibility of building a model powerboat that will be capable of travelling at very high speeds, perhaps faster than anyone has achieved before. The plan is for a three point hydroplane powered by solid rocket boosters, with a computer controlled piloting system employing Artificial Intelligence, and using interactive aerodynamic devices to maintain stability in yaw, pitch and roll at extreme velocities. We have a identified a 20 mile long stretch of water in Cambridgeshire on which to run the model, but as yet we do not have enough information to establish what speeds will be attainable. Let's just say 'very fast indeed'.

      We're looking for constructive ideas, thoughts and experiences that might just help us make this happen.

      Our concept of a rocket powered model boat capable of extremely high speeds has already gained traction, with initial interest being expressed in sponsoring the venture by a well-known international business. Consequently, we have decided to initiate a detailed Feasibility Study for the vessel, whose working name is 'Transonic'. This lengthy document will incorporate the preliminary concepts for the radical hull design, interactive stability mechanisms for both hydrodynamic and aerodynamic control, powerplants, remote control systems, management of the project, the appointment of appropriate experts, and potential funding sources for the venture. Furthermore, it will address other significant aspects such as marketing, management of the site chosen for the high-speed testing, health and safety issues, insurances and other important legal matters. The most complex and significant issues are timetabling and, inevitably, budgets.

      We expect to complete this Feasibility Study by April 2017. If appropriate funding is in place by July 2017, it is anticipated that 'Proof of Concept' testing could then commence forthwith. Such work would focus on the design, development and testing of stability devices, and their attendant Artificial Intelligence computer systems, which are currently seen as the most critical aspect of the project. The professional advice we have so far received is that, because of the complex dynamic forces involved, it is very unlikely that test results could be 'scaled up' from smaller models, and that it would be essential to work with prototypes that were similarly sized to the final 'Transonic' craft, and were furthermore capable of travelling at very high speeds. The difficulties of scale are exacerbated by the fact that the only existing computer modelling software that would be usable in theoretical design work is primarily designed for the supersonic aerospace industry, and was never conceived as being translatable to nautical craft. The epithet 'Uncharted Territory' would appear to be applicable to the entire project, but is particularly apposite in these areas of the design.

      Requiring a design starting point, and rather quickly, we impulsively decided to take a proprietary injection-moulded 1:32 scale model of a modern F16 jet aircraft, and then chop off most of the wings. This now rather unbecoming machine, obviously incapable of flight, was inevitably christened 'The Dodo'. It put us into the mindset of considering 'interactive three axis control' and not to just restrict our ideas to a traditional yaw control arrangement. There are various theories about how a boat such as this might behave (or misbehave) in the real world at the velocities we are envisaging, but in truth nobody really knows. Many tests will have to be run. Many boats will be destroyed in the process. Much will be learned.

      It promises to be a fascinating adventure, perhaps with a surprise ending that relates to the current name of the vessel…

      Edited By John Stedman on 24/01/2017 12:22:42

      #4388
      John Stedman
      Participant
        @johnstedman46006

        An ambitious (foolhardy?) plan to build the speediest unmanned boat there’s ever been.

        #69568
        harry smith 1
        Participant
          @harrysmith1

          Hi John

          **LINK**

          You may check this one out!!!

          #69569
          Dodgy Geezer 1
          Participant
            @dodgygeezer1

            From a regulatory point of view you might find that the US is the best place to do this sort of thing: **LINK** Otherwise, you might need to consider this kind of study: **LINK**

             

            I suspect it will not be as difficult to obtain the necessary power units as it will be to maintain stability, particularly in the transonic regime. You will probably need to adjust the aerodynamic loads on the craft extremely rapidly. There are a few people who do know something about the behaviour of rapidly-moving objects close to a ground/water surface – the staff at the Pendine research centre, for example: **LINK**

            The most obvious person to talk to is Ron Ayers **LINK** but I believe that he's rather busy at the moment…

             

            The Americans have been doing just what you are thinking of for some time, with a cut-down Starfighter – I believe they;re finding it rather difficult…https://www.landspeed.com

            Edited By Dodgy Geezer on 24/01/2017 13:10:37

            #69570
            Gareth Jones
            Participant
              @garethjones79649

              This looks to be a fascinating technical challenge. I suspect the health and safety aspects could be as challenging as the engineering. How wide is the 20 mile long stretch of water – monitoring the models safe progress could be tricky.

              I will watch with interest. – from a safe distance.

              Gareth

              #69571
              Colin Bishop
              Moderator
                @colinbishop34627

                John,

                I think you should be aware that many of the members on this Forum are also members of the Model Boat Mayhem forum.

                If you wish to continue posting on here I must insist that you demonstrate your bona fides starting with a link to your architectural practice website and some visual evidence of previous projects undertaken.

                Our other members might like to check out your Mayhem topic (particularly the final pages) before posting:

                http://www.modelboatmayhem.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,56963.0.html

                Regards,

                Colin Bishop

                Website Editor

                Edited By Colin Bishop, Website Editor on 24/01/2017 13:17:17

                #69572
                Gareth Jones
                Participant
                  @garethjones79649

                  Gosh, what a surprise, and I was going to urge Ashley to start stocking up on hardboard.

                  Gareth

                  #69574
                  Dodgy Geezer 1
                  Participant
                    @dodgygeezer1

                    I think that many of our answers were tongue-in-cheek – mine certainly was….

                    #69575
                    Paul T
                    Participant
                      @pault84577

                      What is that stuff that comes out from under a bulls tail?

                      #69576
                      ashley needham
                      Participant
                        @ashleyneedham69188

                        I have already started cutting up the superior man made board!! Ashley

                        #69577
                        shipwright
                        Participant
                          @shipwright

                          I assume that the authorities who govern the stretch of water that will be used in the trials have been approached. Apart from H&S there is likely to be a concern for wildlife.

                          Based on no more than a "gut feeling" if the intention is for the craft to approach speeds of several hundreds of mph I cannot believe that an off the shelf "proprietary injection-moulded 1:32 scale model of a modern F16 jet aircraft" would withstand the extreme stresses that the structure will inevitably be subjected to.

                          #69578
                          Dave Milbourn
                          Participant
                            @davemilbourn48782

                            Shipwright

                            He's as nutty as a squirrel's breakfast. It's all "fake news". Don't concern yourself for another moment.

                            Dave M

                            #69579
                            mike farrell
                            Participant
                              @mikefarrell21522

                              Hi I cannot see the need for such speed. If I cannot see the model then I cannot bring myself to want bother looking any further

                              When H&S gets to hear about it should take little time to shut down the programme .indecisionMichael

                              #69591
                              The Long Build
                              Participant
                                @thelongbuild
                                Posted by John Stedman on 24/01/2017 12:20:52:

                                It promises to be a fascinating adventure, perhaps with a surprise ending that relates to the current name of the vessel…

                                ​No doubt all will be revealed on the 1st April !!

                                Possible names..

                                ​Bodgit & Scapa

                                #69592
                                Paul T
                                Participant
                                  @pault84577

                                  Isn't it nice, just when things are getting you down an idiot comes along and cheers you up. Is this some kind of government sponsored initiative or a charitable freelancer.

                                  What ever his motivation I hope that 'John' will continue with his postings as his first batch have been extremely amusing.

                                  #69594
                                  Dave Milbourn
                                  Participant
                                    @davemilbourn48782

                                    Didn't Noel Edmonds once lose a lot of money to a creep called Wainwright* who promised to break the water-speed record with a boat called Excalibur – which turned out to be made of plywood? I wonder what The Banker said when he found out…

                                    Paul – you know full well that there is no mileage in taking the proverbial out of the mentally challenged (I've told you often enough). My only real thought about this is that if you were to saw the wings off a model of an F16 then you'd end up with a huge scoop underneath – ideal for cooling the dilythium crystals in the warp-drive but maybe a bit 'draggy' in that murky Fenland water.

                                    Like I said, nutty as a really nutty thing dunked in Nutella and sprinkled with pistachios and ground almonds.

                                    Dave M

                                    * I've found him. Sounds a real charmer. http://www.miaminewtimes.com/news/basil-wainwright-6367119

                                    Edited By Dave Milbourn on 25/01/2017 13:52:44

                                    #69595
                                    Paul T
                                    Participant
                                      @pault84577

                                      Dave

                                      Apparently the Excalibur looked something like this.

                                      Pistonheads

                                      It was a odd design using a submerged engine connected by a stanchion to a raised cockpit out of the water, not too dissimilar to this fighter from Star Wars but with less guns.

                                      #69624
                                      The Long Build
                                      Participant
                                        @thelongbuild

                                        Looks very much like some of the craft in Home World.

                                        #69631
                                        Malcolm Frary
                                        Participant
                                          @malcolmfrary95515

                                          When the one that is born every minute is born, is it actually on the minute?

                                          #69633
                                          Dave Milbourn
                                          Participant
                                            @davemilbourn48782

                                            Yes, Malcolm, but unlike the one person who is killed or injured every five minutes on Britains's roads he can only do it the once. This is getting very silly………or is it actually getting more sensible c/w the original posting?

                                            DM

                                            #69636
                                            ashley needham
                                            Participant
                                              @ashleyneedham69188

                                              Paul. Please don't give my projects away on the forum. I shall have to scrap this now and start on the floating Death Star (paddle driven).

                                              Ashley

                                              #69645
                                              Malcolm Frary
                                              Participant
                                                @malcolmfrary95515

                                                Of course, if somebody wants a fast boat based on a second hand jet fighter, they could start from a Convair Sea Dart. http://www.fiddlersgreen.net/models/aircraft/Convair-SeaDart.html

                                                At least the intake is upstairs.

                                                #69648
                                                ashley needham
                                                Participant
                                                  @ashleyneedham69188

                                                  No that would be a fun model to make with a ducted fan. Need flap control though in case it took off.

                                                  ​The Saunders Roe jet flying boat fighter was also something I had thought of, but cant see a way of getting sufficient air into the front intake without making this unfeasibly large.
                                                  ​Ashley

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