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23 February 2016 at 01:24 #63608
hutch
Participant
@hutch73959
Hi Guys,

I came across a smoke unit that is made for TAIGEN model R/C tanks its a new version now with more smoke.

have a look at you- tube under taigen model R/C tanks.

Has two outlets and only needs 2 to 4 drops of smoke oil for a running time of approx 30 min to one hour, power needs are from 7.4 to 8.4 volts,depending how much smoke you want..

I am going to use it in my Springer tug with just a short burst when operning the throttle.

Its made by imex-model.com.

The price was very reasonable under $10,00us plus postage

Total cost to Australia approx $31.00.

Cheers

Hutch
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23 February 2016 at 01:24 #4297
hutch
Participant
@hutch73959
new smoke unit
23 February 2016 at 10:30 #63615
Dodgy Geezer 1
Participant
@dodgygeezer1
You can get it in the UK, including delivery cost, from ebay at £23.70p. But it doesn't seem to produce the same volume of smoke as one designed for boats. It runs at about 7-8v, and around 3/4 of an amp.

It's odd how international pricing works…
23 February 2016 at 11:00 #63616
hutch
Participant
@hutch73959
Hi Dodgy,

Its a new and improved model.

from what I have seen on youtube it puts out quite a lot of smoke

That 's over 48 dollars Australian wow!!

cheers,

hutch
23 February 2016 at 12:44 #63620
Dodgy Geezer 1
Participant
@dodgygeezer1
from what I have seen on youtube it puts out quite a lot of smoke

That 's over 48 dollars Australian wow!!

I think that some of the smokers designed for boats put out a lot more…

..We're in the EU, so our companies have to pay a lot of tax whenever we import things….

Edited By Dodgy Geezer on 23/02/2016 12:44:17

Edited By Dodgy Geezer on 23/02/2016 12:44:46
23 February 2016 at 13:41 #63621
Dave Milbourn
Participant
@davemilbourn48782
DG

While the combined rate of Australian GST and average duty on imported goods is around 15% (c/w 20% into the UK) they have a minimum value for tax of A$1000 (around £500GBP), below which they pay no tax. In the UK it's £15, or £34 for gifts.

Like the old song says "Ain't it all a ****** shame?"

DM
23 February 2016 at 13:48 #63622
Dodgy Geezer 1
Participant
@dodgygeezer1
I was thinking of the import duties a company has to pay on buying in a load of components from another country.

The EU is a free-trade area internally, but has large barrier taxes for external imports – the idea being to stimulate local industry, Unfortunately, it turns out that places like China are where you can get things made really cheaply, and the EU doesn't seem to be able to compete with them. Possibly because there are lots of expensive regulations that have to be complied with inside the EU…

So if you want to buy that unit on the world market it will be around £7 – if you want to buy it once it has been imported into the EU it is around £20…
23 February 2016 at 14:13 #63623
Dave Milbourn
Participant
@davemilbourn48782
Duty rate for electronic goods etc from China imported into UK is just 4.7%. Here you go:

**LINK**

I once enquired from a manufacturer about importing their electric motors from China and asked if they could arrange any necessary CE testing and certification. "Sure!" came the reply "We print label with anything you want".

DM
23 February 2016 at 15:25 #63625
Dodgy Geezer 1
Participant
@dodgygeezer1
Posted by Dave Milbourn on 23/02/2016 14:13:35:

Duty rate for electronic goods etc from China imported into UK is just 4.7%….

Then you have to work out the cost of complying with regulations, and add that on to the the total cost of doing business… of course, you could simply have the label printed with whatever you need and slip the relevant Chinese authorities a bung, but it makes your business a little prone to Customs raids in the UK….

I'm assuming that, if duty is around 5%, then double that for admin and shipping, a UK importer ought to be able to sell those smokers for around £10, giving him about 20% profit on the deal. That's IF duty was the only cost. Since I don't see any UK importers doing this, I suspect there are other costs/restrictions involved somewhere….

Of course, this is much more your area than mine. What is it that's stopping a small model accessory provider ordering, say, 50 of those items and selling them at £15? I'm pretty sure you could find 50 modellers who would buy one at that price…
23 February 2016 at 17:12 #63628
Dave Milbourn
Participant
@davemilbourn48782
DG

20% profit?? I have worked in the UK model trade and I know that margins like that are unworkable. In my other career (guess…) I found that very few retail businesses could survive on such a small margin unless they had a high volume turnover e.g. newsagents and tobacconists. UK model shops won't look at stocking any product unless they can make at least 1/3 of the selling price as profit. Don't forget also that the Chancellor has license to demand 1/6 of the gross takings as VAT.

The other major consideration is that our oriental chums are quite happy to sell single items to end-users like you and me for the same unit price that they will sell them to a trade customer – unless the order quantity is thousands of units. I understand that their export freight costs are heavily (if not totally) subsidised by the state., so why not?

Almost incidentally there's the cost of advertising, postage, a website, packaging, finance charges (credit card fees etc) – and that's without even thinking about having any premises or employees. If you want to buy 50 widgets from China for a tenner apiece and try to flog them for fifteen (and that's a lot more than 20% profit) then go ahead and good luck to you. Your 50 potential customers will likely tell you cheerfully that they too can get the same thing for a tenner, so why should they buy them from you at fifteen?

Any fool can work for nothing, but not for long. The empty shops on the High Street are testament to that.

Edited By Dave Milbourn on 23/02/2016 17:14:59
23 February 2016 at 21:03 #63631
Dodgy Geezer 1
Participant
@dodgygeezer1
Posted by Dave Milbourn on 23/02/2016 17:12:17:

……..Almost incidentally there's the cost of advertising, postage, a website, packaging, finance charges (credit card fees etc) – and that's without even thinking about having any premises or employees. If you want to buy 50 widgets from China for a tenner apiece and try to flog them for fifteen (and that's a lot more than 20% profit) then go ahead and good luck to you. Your 50 potential customers will likely tell you cheerfully that they too can get the same thing for a tenner, so why should they buy them from you at fifteen?

…………

Yes – the 20% was buying for 7 and selling for 10 (after allowing a bit for costs). If you buy for 7 and sell for 15, then we are talking over 100% profit. And what you are offering to your customers is an easy transaction, a rapid post and a reliable delivery – all things that buying direct from China does not provide.

And, of course, a small model accessory provider already has a website, packaging capability and runs a payment system. So I still can't see why someone isn't doing that in the UK. In fact there IS someone doing it – in Germany, selling for £13.70, plus a tenner for postage…. but not in the UK.
23 February 2016 at 23:26 #63634
Dave Milbourn
Participant
@davemilbourn48782
And, of course, a small model accessory provider already has a website, packaging capability and runs a payment system.

All for free, naturally.

I'd quite forgotten the cost of replacing those units which don't work out of the box, for which the orientals are notorious. If you think the manufacturer is going to sympathise with you then you will be sadly disappointed.

I'm currently compiling a list of philanthropists who run 'small model accessory' businesses. I'm stuck for even one name. Perhaps you might like to kick off the list with your proposed venture? Trust me, m'duck – the majority of punters don't care. I've been in and around the model trade for over 40 years and I know that unless you have something unique then it's the bottom line that persuades 'em every time. If you still doubt me then you're welcome to try it yourself.

See the last two sentences of my previous posting…
24 February 2016 at 07:47 #63635
Dodgy Geezer 1
Participant
@dodgygeezer1
Posted by Dave Milbourn on 23/02/2016 23:26:58:

……..

I'm currently compiling a list of philanthropists who run 'small model accessory' businesses. I'm stuck for even one name. Perhaps you might like to kick off the list with your proposed venture? ……….

May I propose for your list one "licmas_tradinghouse" of ebay?

Who is the person selling these at the moment for £13.70 plus a tenner for postage, as I indicated earlier? Here is the reference: **LINK**

It seems to be possible – I just wondered why no one was doing it in the UK…..
24 February 2016 at 10:15 #63637
Dave Milbourn
Participant
@davemilbourn48782
It seems to be possible – I just wondered why no one was doing it in the UK…..

Probably because you'd have to work hard to beat that price and make a profit, given that the unit cost from Imex is $9.59 (£6.88) ex-works. If you work backwards from the same retail price as E-bay, delivered within the UK, then the maths goes like this:

RSP £23.70

Less VAT @ 1/6 (£3.95)

Less 2nd Class SF postage (£3.90)

Less cost of Jiffybag (£.40)

= Net sale value £15.45

Less unit cost ex-works (£6.88)

= Balance (to cover shipping from Florida, Customs handling and Profit) £8.57

Let's say you end up making a fiver net profit on each item. From your consignment of 50 units that's just £250. Factor in a QC failure rate of 4% (not unusual for Chinese manufactured goods); one unit lost in the post and two more needing warranty replacements FOC within 12 months of sale and you're down to £200. Pay the Income Tax on that @ 20% and you're left with £160 in your hand – from a total take of nearly £1200. And at the end of all this, don't forget that your proposed scenario for a small model accessory business allowed for NIL overheads…..

That's the model trade. I sometimes wonder why anybody does it!!

Stay happy!

Dave M
24 February 2016 at 11:26 #63639
Dave Milbourn
Participant
@davemilbourn48782
Contrast the above with the cost-effectiveness of telling a drunken oaf that he can't have a steak….
**LINK**
£100K for a split lip??? I'm in the wrong business.

DM
25 July 2017 at 11:59 #72066
Max Cormick
Participant
@maxcormick
hi guys,

I read in the latest Modelboat magazine august 2017 an article regarding KM Bismarck 1/200 trumpeter but I do not understand the acronym DIY means(photo14.the neatly installed DIY smoke unit and drive battery installetion)]; I undestood it is a Smoke generator but where to buy or which features has I do not know

can you help me pls? regards

Cobby

Edited By Max Cormick on 25/07/2017 12:01:30
25 July 2017 at 12:07 #72067
Colin Bishop
Moderator
@colinbishop34627
Max,

DIY = Do It Yourself, i.e. the builder made it to his own design from components.

Similar units are available commercially but usually to fixed sizes.

Colin
25 July 2017 at 13:50 #72071
Max Cormick
Participant
@maxcormick
which smoke generator could be right for Km Bismarck 1/200 trumpeter?

regards

Cobby
25 July 2017 at 14:08 #72073
Colin Bishop
Moderator
@colinbishop34627
Sorry, I can't help you with that. Somebody else may be able to

Colin
26 July 2017 at 00:51 #72088
hutch
Participant
@hutch73959
Hi Guys

The smoke unit you have a link to can be bought from banggood.com

Very cheap about $8.00 Australian with free postage. I don't buy from the USA anymore as sometimes the postage is 3 times the cost of the item!!

I have two of these units and both work very well.
26 July 2017 at 08:38 #72091
Max Cormick
Participant
@maxcormick
Hi,

I looked for but unable to find at banggood.com a smoke unit….may be I wrote for a wrong item

can you help pls?

regards

Cobby
26 July 2017 at 09:37 #72094
Malcolm Frary
Participant
@malcolmfrary95515
Only one I could find on banggood – https://www.banggood.com/Heng-Long-Smoke-Machine-3888-056-German-King-Tiger-Battle-Tank-Part-p-1097490.html?rmmds=search – but using English search terms on a Chinese site can be problematical.

No idea at all if it would fit any given alternative to its intended first use.
28 July 2017 at 06:54 #72146
Cookie
Participant
@cookie15923
Totally agree with Mr DM , My local model shop who I support the best I can by buying all I can from them is on the brink of closure due to cheap imports ,The only thing that keeps him afloat is the fact that he manufacture's his own range of produces with better margins.

Dave.
29 July 2017 at 21:52 #72181
Mike Waterhouse 1
Participant
@mikewaterhouse1
Does anyone know where the smoker unit oil can be purchased from? I've looked in all the places I can think of without any luck.

Any help appreciated

Mike.
30 July 2017 at 01:07 #72182
hutch
Participant
@hutch73959
Hi Mike,

I use Liquid Paraffin BP its a lot cheaper and last a lot longer than the very small bottle from the model shops approx $7.00AUD,you get 200ml,it works very well

all chemist stock plus you should already have it in the bath room cabinet !!

Cheers,

Hutch.
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