Capacitor choice

Capacitor choice

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  • #46529
    Bob Abell 2
    Participant
      @bobabell2

      Dave , Sorry, but can't find the thread where you recc'd the ideal capacitor

      Tried the link earlier, but got fed up with the red tape!

      Bought a bag of Capacitors instead……Electrolytic type, which I discover, are not suitable…..Should have got…Ceramic?

      Saw a tip for fitting capacitors to motor casing, clamp a piece of brass to the casing with a Jubilee clip….and solder to that?….eh?

      Such is life?

      Bob…..Not a Sparkie

      #4072
      Bob Abell 2
      Participant
        @bobabell2

        Which? Where? What?

        #46530
        Dave Milbourn
        Participant
          @davemilbourn48782

          Disc ceramic type.
          0.1 or 0.22uF across brushes; 0.01iuF between brushes and case. Your idea should work but is really unnecessary if you solder properly. Just keep the capacitor "legs" as short as possible.
          DM

          #46531
          Bob Abell 2
          Participant
            @bobabell2

            Many thanks, Dave

            Just ordered jumbo soldering iron for the job

            Bob

            #46538
            shipwright
            Participant
              @shipwright

              Hello Bob,

              I don't want to teach grandmother to suck eggs but …..when you say "jumbo soldering iron" – what wattage is the iron? For soldering small components such as these capacitors you will need a very modest sized tip and a wattage no more than 20 watts otherwise you can damage the components. Very different if you are soldering 2 pieces of brass where you might need 100 Watts or more (a "jumbo soldering iron&quot

              Ian

              #46539
              Bob Abell 2
              Participant
                @bobabell2

                Hello Ian

                I need plenty of ooomf to solder to the motor casing……Have ordered 100watts

                I've always thought there should be something better for this job, like a protruding lug etc

                Bob

                #46559
                Telstar
                Participant
                  @telstar

                  Hi Bob,

                  When soldering to the motor case, I 'clean' the spot I want to solder the cap's to. Then tin this place first, with no caps in place, once I have a nice solder spot on the case (that can't be picked off) then solder the caps in place, this helps to not overheat the components as mentioned by Ian

                  Tom

                  #46560
                  Bob Abell 2
                  Participant
                    @bobabell2

                    Many thanks Tom

                    That's what I intend to do

                    Bob

                    #46561
                    Dave Milbourn
                    Participant
                      @davemilbourn48782

                      Bob

                      Use a file to clean the case where the solder spot will be and put some masking tape over any cooling slots in the motor case to prevent filings etc getting inside. Wipe the solder spot area clean with meths or isopropyl alcohol afterwards. Ceramic disc capacitors are pretty tough when their leads are soldered. The trick is to hold the end of the lead down against the solder spot with the tip of the iron and feed some solder in between to re-melt the spot and cover the lead. Easier to do than to describe. DON'T ever take a file to clean the tip of the iron; heat it up and wipe away any excess solder with a damp sponge.

                      Dave M

                      #46562
                      Colin Bishop
                      Moderator
                        @colinbishop34627

                        Soldering to the case can be a nuisance. I tend to mount my motors by bolting them by the front securing holes to a piece of right angled metal plate which acts as a motor mount. With small motors you can use aluminium alloy angle.

                        One end of each capacitor is soldered to the respective motor power tag connection and the other ends are soldered together and to a piece of wire which is brought out over the top of the motor and connected to a tag screwed to the motor mount face which of course is electrically conductive to the motor case.

                        Colin

                        #46563
                        Bob Abell 2
                        Participant
                          @bobabell2

                          Thank you, Dave….That should do the trick!

                          Colin

                          Having extension wires could also cause radio interference…..So Google tells us?

                          Bob

                          #46565
                          Dave Milbourn
                          Participant
                            @davemilbourn48782

                            Having extension wires could also cause radio interference…..So Google tells us?

                            "Telstar" Tom and I wouldn't disagree with that; neither would Malcolm F. Keep 'em short.

                            DM

                            #46571
                            Bob Abell 2
                            Participant
                              @bobabell2

                              I wonder, what became of 60Watt?

                              He`s a blast from the past?

                              Bob

                              #46580
                              Kimosubby Shipyards
                              Participant
                                @kimosubbyshipyards

                                Hi Bob and all,

                                I've just been trying to solder to a motor casing, a 600 motor from Mtroniks, and no matter what way I tried the casing would not take solder [ filing, small drilling, scrapping, 100 W iron, even red hot poker!] I resorted to very carefully drilling a "slow hole" (so as to catch the swarf) and put in a small self tapping screw and used that for the case contact.

                                Sometimes It can't be done – or am I wrong?

                                Kim

                                #46581
                                Bob Abell 2
                                Participant
                                  @bobabell2

                                  Hello Kimmo

                                  I've always bought MFA motor sets for that reason….They come with the caps already soldered on!

                                  I wonder if we could use the motor bracket?

                                  Bob

                                  #46585
                                  Telstar
                                  Participant
                                    @telstar

                                    Hi Kim 9 out of 10 times when soldering to steel some form of flux is needed to keep the area to be soldered from oxidizing as soon as the heat from the soldering iron is applied. Bakers Fluid is ideal, BUT it is very corrosive and needs to be cleaned off after soldering, I normally get good results with Fluxite Paste, this is slightly corrosive, but if you wipe the surface clean after 'tinning' then solder on the components .

                                    Sure thing Dave, long leads and oxidized nut & bolts connections are a no no with RF

                                    cheers Tom

                                    #46591
                                    Malcolm Frary
                                    Participant
                                      @malcolmfrary95515

                                      If it "needs" long capacitor legs for the terminal-case capacitors, I would just forget them and rely on the terminal-terminal one. Maybe use one of the higher value ones out of the pack.

                                      Otherwise, as everybody else has said, especially about losing the plating in the area to be soldered, using flux and having an iron big and hot enough to melt solder in contact with the metal of the case without cooling itself down.

                                      #46595
                                      ashley needham
                                      Participant
                                        @ashleyneedham69188

                                        I have always thought that it is the plating on the motor casing you are soldering to, and I only ever clean the casing with thinners or whatever..no filing or sanding. Certainly I had a large amount of Hornby "O" guage track re-plated with tin, and I made repairs to junctions and so on after and it was a doddle to solder to.

                                        Most motors have tapped holes at the front end to use if desperate although the leads might then be a bit long.

                                        Personally i have never had much of an issue with suppression other than in boats that have all the gear crammed together. I usually only fit a capacitor across the terminals and see how we go. No one else on the pond has suffered because of this "lack" of suppression, before anyone says anything

                                        Ashley

                                        #46599
                                        Dave Milbourn
                                        Participant
                                          @davemilbourn48782

                                          Ashley
                                          You can often get away with just the one suppressor but sometimes you need the extra ones.
                                          There's nothing to stop anyone from drilling a small hole in the motor casing adjacent to the end cover, and fitting a solder tag with a self-tapping screw. You can then solder the caps to it and fit it in place afterwards.Just make sure that the screw doesn't prevent the motor from turning and that you don't get any swarf inside the casing. Being magnetic it will instantly be attracted to the fixed magnets and be a swine to shift!
                                          DM

                                          #46600
                                          Telstar
                                          Participant
                                            @telstar

                                            Re: solder and Tinning

                                            Found this link may shed some light on things

                                            Ashley As you said, once the job is tinned it's easy. However some motor cases are Nickle plated or galvenised (zinc plated) to prevent corrosion these metals are much more difficult to 'tin'

                                            Tom

                                            #46602
                                            ashley needham
                                            Participant
                                              @ashleyneedham69188

                                              It does seem to be pot luck with the plating, having said I usually only use one capacitor, I usually try to get a blob of solder on the casing, and if it takes easily I would put the others on, if not I dont bother.

                                              Ashley

                                              #46604
                                              Dave Milbourn
                                              Participant
                                                @davemilbourn48782

                                                I can't recall any problem with any motor I've done, but then I use a half-round warding file to grind off any plating and reveal bright metal underneath.
                                                DM

                                                #46605
                                                Colin Bishop
                                                Moderator
                                                  @colinbishop34627

                                                  But if you fail to make the connection – does that mean you are incapacitated?

                                                  Colin

                                                  #46653
                                                  Tony Hadley
                                                  Participant
                                                    @tonyhadley

                                                    Dave,

                                                    The subject of fitting capacitors has been discussed in many threads. Previous discussions have covered fitting a diode across the motor terminals with a heavy sparking (noisy) motor. You kindly provided details of the correct diode in a thread on this forum.

                                                    If it is necessary to replace the motor terminal to motor terminal capacitor with this diode, should the motor case to motor terminal capacitors be removed or left in place? or is it irrelevant.

                                                    Tony

                                                    #46654
                                                    Telstar
                                                    Participant
                                                      @telstar

                                                      Tony

                                                      If The motor is to run both ways (ie forward and backward) a diode is a NO NO when you reverse the polarity ,to reverse the motor, the diode is a short circuit across the supply

                                                      Tom

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