HMS Nelson or HMS Rodney 1000th post!

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14 March 2010 at 17:26 #25917
ashley needham
Participant
@ashleyneedham69188
Well well, verbose or wot ! a 1000 post milestone. How can anyone talk so much rubbish? anyway

My next item to occupy a few minutes over the weekends to come is a battleship as per the title, using the plank/hardboard construction as per my battlecruiser. Sorry no pictures yet as the initial work looks unbearably crude,

But the question is, which one?

I know there is no material difference in the actual ship, but there is a difference to their paint schemes during the war.

Rodney sported a very striking scheme with big sploches, for want of a better word, of Black defined by white bits and , I believe a sort of green colour, but Nelson is normally ever spotted with a very boring dark brey bar amidships.

BUT..I have seen pictures of Nelson with a camo finish, however no where near as striking as the Rodney version tho`.

AND only a few days ago on a warship modelling site (Airfix-sized jobs mostly) I spotted a model of the Rodney..showing the camouflage finish being extended to the deck as well as the sides !! This is truly very different….and I should think the modeller concerned had done his/her research, but I cannot find any other reference to this. trouble is, all the photos you ever see are side views.

If this is true ? .dare I ? would it look TOO dazzly on the pond…would anyone believe it??

Answers and a WWW ref please !!!

Ashley.
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14 March 2010 at 17:26 #3531
ashley needham
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@ashleyneedham69188
14 March 2010 at 18:14 #25924
Colin Bishop
Moderator
@colinbishop34627
Ashley,

I took some photos of the model of Rodney in the RN Museum at Portsmouth last year. The lighting conditions were very difficult. I have uploaded them to an album here:

http://www.modelboats.co.uk/albums/member_album.asp?a=10276

Hope this is of some interest.

Colin
15 March 2010 at 12:01 #25932
Bob Abell 2
Participant
@bobabell2
What are you on about, Ashley?

What does 1000th post mean?

I`m easily confused………………or haven`t you noticed!

Bob
15 March 2010 at 20:37 #25943
ashley needham
Participant
@ashleyneedham69188
Bob, It means I have made a 1000 forum entries, or “posts” as they are called….but you knew that!

Colin. Thanks for that. I am worried that a FULLY^ camouflaged battleship might look too odd even by my standards…what do you think as a personal veiw?

Its a wonder that they painted the deck, it being wooden and all that, I mean, how would you get it off afterwards?? holystoning? I suppose WW2 ships were camouflaged against more than just subs, and one wonders how many more ships had their decks painted, apart from tiddlers like torpedo boats.

I can feel a 1:1 cardboard model coming up, painted all over first , then just Nelson style side camo.

But it would certainly be different…

Ashley
15 March 2010 at 22:17 #25944
Colin Bishop
Moderator
@colinbishop34627
I think it is just a matter of personal preference Ashley. I like to see warships in plain grey which sets off their impressive lines. Lots of other people prefer the various disruptive colour schemes which certainly do make things look different.

Whatever floats your boat I think.

Colin
15 March 2010 at 23:11 #25945
Colin Miller
Participant
@colinmiller68338
would it not be easier to buy the airfix 1/600scale

nelson build it and use it for some referance then

prior to painting yours try out the differant paint schemes
16 March 2010 at 13:23 #25950
Grumpy
Participant
@grumpy
Hi Ashley,

The subject of camouflage is a very interesting one. Many years ago I made a model of Rodney and used the Almark book ‘Royal Navy Warship Camouflage’ as a guide. This showed several side views of assorted ships and basically said that the colour of horizontal surfaces depended upon the colour of the adjacent vertical surface. Then a few months ago i found a copy of Man O’ War 3 in a charity shop. This covers Nelson and Rodney and shows several photos of both of them in camouflage schems. In the centre are some side views of both ships showing the camouflage schemes. One view is an overhead one of Rodney and shows the decks as being camouflaged. The text says that this scheme was worn by Rodney for a few months in 1943. It says thet this practise was not unique but was not very common either. It also says that the Admiralty instructions on the matter of deck colour were very vague. i would not disagree with that.

i would say that, if you do go ahead and produce a model with a camouflaged deck it will definiotely be unique!

Grumpy
18 March 2010 at 07:03 #25965
ashley needham
Participant
@ashleyneedham69188
Colin Colin and Grumps.

Thanks for your feedback. Yes an Airfix model is a good idea, but whereas it would certainly let me play with the colour schemes it wouldnt neccessarily show me the effect of these schemes on the full size model, meaning, as Colin (sir) says…showing off impressive lines etc or looking messy.

I have a feeling in my water though that if I go the normal Grey or side camo only route i will be forever looking at the boat and thinking “what if”…?

I suppose the thing to do, as the deck scheme was only used for a short while, is paint the sides leaving the deck normal, and see if this looks striking enough on its own .

Construction continues apace…workmate, belt sander, plane, chisel…you know how it is in the world of precision model making !

Ashley
25 June 2010 at 19:41 #27431
ashley needham
Participant
@ashleyneedham69188
OK. HMS Nelson it is, not so garish as the Rodney, plain deck. Not finished, loads of very small details to make. Waterline to paint , portholes etc etc.

Not sure about the deck colour. its nice, but looks very “clean” and even with a fair scattering of bollards and un-named boxes on it, its going to be very plain? but what to do at this scale..the undercoat was a bit darker but not “woody” enough for me… we will see
26 June 2010 at 08:28 #27437
Bob Abell 2
Participant
@bobabell2
Ashley…………..I think your post is grand!…………Gerrit?

And your lovely squeakie clean battlewaggon may benefit from a good dollop of muck `n rust?

But it looks very nice….aziz!

Bob
26 June 2010 at 10:58 #27439
Colin Bishop
Moderator
@colinbishop34627
Ashley, how about a bit of lateral thinking? Paint one side camouflaged and the other side grey. Best of both worlds – after all you can’t usually see both sides of a ship at the same time.

Colin
26 June 2010 at 15:22 #27446
ashley needham
Participant
@ashleyneedham69188
Oddly enough I was toying with this, but I rather liked the idea of a camouflaged battleship (!)…<was it really effective?>

The usual camo for this ship seen in pictures is the plain light grey “shadow vessel” stripe either side .

Bob. Sorry, dont “do” rust.

Whats needed is a Scumble paint, with the brush dragged full length of the deck, giving a striped effect, perhaps? I may eventually just load up the deck with loads of un-named boxes and cylinders, perhaps a bit of coiled cotton for rope and bits of pipe.

The art shop i bought the resin plaster from had a set of 1:200 figures….may be, just maybe a few here and there would be effective.

Ashley (air rifle .177 pellets again making great windlasses!)
1 July 2010 at 22:33 #27478
ashley needham
Participant
@ashleyneedham69188
Decided that a feature of these ships is the 3 turrets forrard, and I have an inkling that a fairly plain deck will accentuate that . It certainly makes more of the unbalanced deck layout. When you look at pictures there is not much on the fore deck other than rope, bits of wood and pipes, all a bit difficult to model convincingly in very small scale.

Am now struggling to make the whalers or cutters sitting on the main deck. Davits another issue. bent wire possibly, around a former.

The superstructure block is now nicely cluttered with a/a guns, a/a guns and yet more a/a guns…did I mention the a/a guns??

Rodders was bit damaged after the pounding of the Bismark, by the blast from her own 16″ guns. One can only imagine what the problems would have been like in the 18″ gun Japanese ships. All the secondary armament had to be in sealed turrets apparently, due to the tremendous blast effect from the main armament.

Rodney had the first telling hits on the Bismark, and various naval writings I have read suspect that this would be the deciding factor in a fight between the Japanese ships and….a Nelson, KG5 or IOWA… the first hit in the right place wins (as an aside)

Ashley

Edited By ashley needham on 01/07/2010 22:50:10
15 August 2010 at 13:38 #28095
ashley needham
Participant
@ashleyneedham69188
“Engage the enemy more closely”

More snaps in my album, for those wot are interested.

Ashley
26 September 2010 at 18:28 #28457
ashley needham
Participant
@ashleyneedham69188
Good stuff on the pond today. It was a bit breezy, very breezy in fact, and for company i had an HMS Daring (1950`s version) at 1;96 scale.

Both boats were about the same length, however there was as much of mine under the water as there was of the Daring above the water, and I had possibly another inch on the beam. the difference then , was that whereas his was being blown around AND blown to very scary angles of lean, mine was just being blown a bit off course. It stayed dead flat mostly, if taking it green a bit, alright, mostly. Realism I called it, all those battleships tended to be wet up forrard in a sea.

It was notably “planted” in the water and didnt bob like a cork. I thought when I first built it that I had overdone the draught, but I reckon its about right. You need a bit of weight to retain some “battleship” dignity.

I wish I had taken my little “HMS Devastation” out now, as it would have been MOSTLY underwater and so even MORE realistic! And the sub would have been no fun whatsoever.

Ashley.

Edited By ashley needham on 26/09/2010 18:28:39
5 October 2010 at 17:51 #28514
Rick Devonshire
Participant
@rickdevonshire
Use your knowledge then a little imagination Ashley.

It is often the case that once an agreed colour sheme is located some one comes up with something new which has been used in a little known theatre of the war.

Rick,
5 October 2010 at 19:03 #28517
ashley needham
Participant
@ashleyneedham69188
Rick. i am certainly not adverse to a little imagination, but with the camo scheme I wanted something close(ish) to the original, as although perhaps only a real expert could tell what was right or wrong, it would rankle with me if at some stage after a paint-up I discovered some blaring error !

As it happens when the pictures i have taken are made into black and white only, and with a little extra contrast, they look much better..as thats how you are used to seeing them in books and magazines.

The colours chosen I think were only on it for a year or so in any event.

I should mimic real life and repaint it every few years!

Ashley
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