Airbrushing – glossy fininsh?

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Airbrushing – glossy fininsh?

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6 August 2020 at 13:16 #90658
gecon
Participant
@gecon
Hi anybody!, I'm using an airbrush for the first time. Painting my Fisher 34 motorsailer 1/12th scale. Googled as usual to try to get som relevant info'.

I have finished the basecoats (Tamiya acrylic) and achieved a nice smooth matt finish. After 3 coats of 'gloss' Tamiya acrylic there is still no sign of a 'gloss' fininsh. I believe this is normal with airbrushing.

I'm going to try applying a bit more paint -at the risk of it running- to see if that produces a more gloss finish. Maybe rubbing with Autoglym polish will help after that.??

Any comments on this? Or info on 'how to get a gloss when airbrushing acrylics'? )

George
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6 August 2020 at 13:16 #2949
gecon
Participant
@gecon
6 August 2020 at 13:27 #90661
Paul T
Participant
@pault84577
Hello George

Getting a deep gloss with any paint system requires lots of coats and wet/dry 2500g rubbing down between each coat.

In the opinion of the coach painter who taught me to paint and spray it takes a minimum of 20 coats of 'gloss' before you get an acceptable depth of shine.

After applying the requisite number of gloss coats the paint should be left to harden for at least 2 weeks before using any cutting or polishing compounds.
6 August 2020 at 13:35 #90662
gecon
Participant
@gecon
Oh,oh, off I go to buy more pots of Tamiya 'gloss' then. Perhaps I'll settle for a more realistic 'slightly weathered' semi-gloss after 10-15 coats. The Autoglym can stay on the shelf for a while! Thanks Paul.

George
6 August 2020 at 13:52 #90664
Paul T
Participant
@pault84577
George

A lot of modern spray paints can provide a lovely gloss finish with just a couple of coats but, to me they lack the depth of shine that comes from multiple coats.

The final treatment on my hand varnished wooden speedboat was achieved by lightly using a rubbing compound called 'Solvol autosol' and then a clear silicon floor polish.

Paul
6 August 2020 at 16:02 #90669
ashley needham
Participant
@ashleyneedham69188
As usual Paul demonstrates his complete mastery of the perfect varnish gloss finish (excuse me while I take my sunglasses off now)

but George are you spraying a Gloss colour and not a clear varnish? As per Paul’s comment, I would expect a nice gloss finish after 3 coats of Halfords rattle can spray, for instance, and even spraying my BSA Spitfire tank I had a great gloss with cellulose paint as soon as it had covered.

i believe some paints are already thinned for spraying, so could it be that you have over-thinned, or something?

Spraying in the warm but not hot also helps .

Ashley

Edited By ashley needham on 06/08/2020 16:02:42
6 August 2020 at 19:06 #90671
gecon
Participant
@gecon
Hi Ashley,

I have used gloss varnish on the capping rails and that was a sunglasses ON finish -at least for me!. I'm spraying Tamiya gloss white acrylic X-2. I've used it by brush before unthinned, and it's glossy enough!

For the airbrush it has to be thinned about 35-50% so that will certainly affect the gloss effect to some degree. I may need an airbrush with a larger outlet needle which will allow more paint to flow but that may make it more vulnerable to running. I did an extra heavy application this afternoon which seemed to give a tendency to a 'satin finsh' -so I may be on the right track.

I used Tamiya 'rattle cans on the Comtesse and there was no problem with getting a gloss on that either.

I'll be patient and keep spraying until I can build up sufficient thicknes -and drying time- to stand some Autoglym polish. Then it should at least be satin finish, as the original was.

At least I know how to please Ray who did not care too much for my shiny antifouling!

Post a photo when I remove the masking tape!….if it dosen't look too bad!

Thanks to both for sugestions/help.

Regards,

George
6 August 2020 at 19:19 #90672
Colin Bishop
Moderator
@colinbishop34627
If you just need a decent satin finish then try Halfords Satin Lacquer

https://www.halfords.com/motoring/paints-and-body-repair/specialist-and-decorative-paints/halfords-satin-lacquer-300ml-370277.html

The solvent does't appear to affect acrylic paints although don't use it over enamel.

It gives a really good finish – but always try on a test piece first.

Whilst car polish might give you a decent shine it is doubtful if you will ever be able to recoat it again afterwards shoulld you need to.

Coln
6 August 2020 at 21:15 #90678
gecon
Participant
@gecon
Thanks Colin but, a trip over the North Sea from Stavanger to Halfords would be frowned apon by both the Admiralty and the Norwegian government . Even if I could borrow Paul T's Covid-19-pox suit when I got there,, I'd certainly get the 'red card' when/IF I got back.

I could of course find the equivalent spray here in Norway BUT…….

I have 'converted' to airbrushing due to lack of proper ventilated facilities for smelly paint systems. I did use spray Tamiya cans for the Comtesse but waited for weeks for the right calm/warm weather so I could spray outdoors. Got glossy finish where I wanted it but too much agro to get it all done.

I see that Google is full of suggestions for gloss-ish finish which means I am not the first man to raise the issue .

Tomorrow will see a concerted effort to get on some more layers. I read that using as low a pressure as possible will help to get a thicker coat on for each session. Then x days drying time before working on the shine/semi-shine.

Regards,

George
6 August 2020 at 21:46 #90679
Colin Bishop
Moderator
@colinbishop34627
I hope you get it sorted George, Getting a decent gloss finish can be trickier than one might expect as I have found out myself recently. In one instance I resorted to brush painting!

Colin
7 August 2020 at 06:31 #90681
gecon
Participant
@gecon
I have had thoughts about 'the brush' recently too! but I have to leave that to the painting of small details -using my arsenal of old humbrol enamels, used beneath the kitchen extractor fan and donned with face-mask. Almost no odour and dries fast in the breeze created by the fan!

I'm sure I'll get an acceptable hull surface within about a week depending on how long I wait before trying Autoglym car polish! -on a test peice.

Thanks again to all for shareing your suggestions and experiences.

George

Edited By George Edward Connery on 07/08/2020 06:32:37
7 August 2020 at 21:01 #90700
Paul T
Participant
@pault84577
Hello George

Now I understand your predicament and why you are airbrushing acrylic paint.

My coach painter tutor once told me that the best conditions for spray painting were on a desert island, as this location had perfect humidity with no insects but you had to spray just before dusk as this is when the breeze was still.

Having sprayed paint in many different locations, levels of humidity, insects and temperature I can fully appreciate your problems.

Can you post some photos of your current paint job and identify your concerns, now that we know your location and obvious pitfalls surrounding painting we will be able to offer far more sensible advice.

All the best

Paul
8 August 2020 at 22:00 #90725
gecon
Participant
@gecon
Hi Paul,

photo in 'scratch build' yesterday 07.08. and a few of the last photos in my Fisher 34 album show the subject.

I believe I'll manage to get the required result by using lower pressure and applying more paint on each 'pass'. Had a break today but will start up the kompressor again soon to test out the recent theory!

Regards,

George
9 August 2020 at 19:43 #90762
gecon
Participant
@gecon
Further to my last, in case anyone is interested….

Connected up the Beijing blowpipe this afternoon. Paint did not come out of the nozzel, just back out of the paintcup! After a good wash and brush-up all was working again. I did clean everything after the previous session but obviously not well enough.

This time I used lower pressure from the compressor and sprayed over the hull much more slowly than I actually dared to. Paint went on a bit thicker and the end result after about 20 passes was a satin finish. Another dose tomorrow should give me an acceptable finish. Airbrushing white-on-white is quite demanding because it isn't easy to see the spray -nor where it hits the hull. I can't say that I now know what I'm doing but, I'm getting an idea of what not to do.

The airbrush I bought has a 0.25mm nozzel. For spraying a 1m hull the nozzel should probably be 0.5mm or .08mm. That would allow thicker paint and/or more of it. Not to worry, I needed the excersize anyway!

Cheers, gecon

Edited By gecon on 09/08/2020 19:44:34
10 August 2020 at 19:02 #90778
gecon
Participant
@gecon
Last session with white acrylic on the Fisher 34 topsides this morning before taking the Comtesse for a dip. Lovely WX today so could not sit indoors and ponder about 'gloss or silk' finishes. I doubt if the Queen will be popping over to bash the bows with bubbly on launch day anyway. The result so far is a realistic 'glossy-silk'. Before polishing.

Anyway, removed all but one layer of masking tape to check the results. The W/L is about 1cm above the visible blue in the photo. A layer of masking tape is still on the hull, so more blue will suddenly appear -in a day or two.

I don't yet know if the finish is due to lots more coats…ref. Paul T. or due to a more 'agressive' application method. There was no sign of shine until I started spraying on thicker coats that's for sure. So not allowing the paint to dry too soon after it hits the surface is definately a key factor.

gecon

Edited By gecon on 10/08/2020 19:12:15
10 August 2020 at 20:41 #90779
Paul T
Participant
@pault84577
Hello George

Looking at your photos the finish on the blue seems to be lovely, I can't really comment on the white as I can't see it properly (by bouncing light off it) but if its as good as the blue then you have no worries.

Paul
10 August 2020 at 22:54 #90785
gecon
Participant
@gecon
Hi Paul,

The white is in fact much smoother that the blue which is enamel and went on with a mohair roller! I considered airbrushing the blue but I've had enough for now. I can tackle that later if I receive any complaints. I'm pleased with the results so far, considering that I'm doing things about which I know 'nowt'.

Hope to do some detail work on the 'varnishy bits' soon but I won't post any photos. I don't want to make you cry

gecon
11 September 2020 at 07:30 #91360
gecon
Participant
@gecon
Just for info…

I have bought another type of airbrush. Hobbynox Rudy. Should have noticed this one earlier. It has the look of a 'spray gun' as opposed to an 'airbrush' which is probably why I have not read the 'bumf' on it before now. However it has a nozzle design which permits spraying with a 'fan shaped' spray pattern. Thus covering more area and laying down a more concentrated amount of paint with each passing. The info sheet states that is is designed for large ship hulls and large A/C models. The nozzel opening is 0.8mm whereas the first airbrush I tried has 0.3mm.

Elsewhere (You Tube) I note that airbrushed Acrylic should be oversprayed with clear varnish to seal it better and make it more durable. I have bought some Tamiya clear gloss X-22 for this purpose.

I will try yet again to acheive a better finish on the Fisher 34 hull. If it works, I'll do the Colin Archer hull too -before the autumn weather sets in here in Norway and renders the spray-booth (balcony) unsuitable for painting.

Forecast is good for next week so looks like Tuesday will be 'spray-day'.

gecon

Edited By gecon on 11/09/2020 07:35:28
15 September 2020 at 16:37 #91418
gecon
Participant
@gecon
Airbrushing etc…

I'm a bit sorry that I started off on this airbrush escapade but I have at least learned something new. Today I also discovered that the new Ruby (not RuDy as I wrote earlier) needed a more powerful compressor than the one I have. When I tested today (just blowing air through) my small-ish compressor could not deliver enough air through the 0.8mm Ruby nozzle so I gave that up PDQ.

Seeing that I had rigged everything up anyway I decided to have another go with the first airbrush I bought. I achieved a slightly better finish than earlier by mixing in some 'paint retarder' with the thinned clear acrylic gloss. The added retarder extended the drying time of the acrylic so I managed to get a 'wet' look on the surface after about five succesive passes. I did not want to push my luck so I settled for that as the final finish for the Fisher 34 hull.

gecon
15 September 2020 at 17:34 #91419
Paul T
Participant
@pault84577
Hello George

Getting a 'wet look' is always difficult as it is all about getting a lot of paint on without creating drips or worse still ending up with an orange peel finish.

I think you have done a lovley job especially given your northerly location and having to work on your balcaony.

Paul
16 September 2020 at 16:54 #91429
gecon
Participant
@gecon
Thanks Paul, started on the Colin Archer hull this afternoon!

Not because I really wanted to but because the Wx was right and I wanted to try the processes again before I forget what I did on the Fisher hull! Got matte finish today -I'll try the Tamiya clear gloss as topcoat tomorrow and hope for a silk-ish finish. An old Colin Archer hardly needs gloss topsides!

regards,

George
20 September 2020 at 15:12 #91481
gecon
Participant
@gecon
Managed an acceptable silk finish today. Used Tamiya Clear Gloss, ca,30% thinner and ca.5-10% Paint Retarder. Sprayed at about 12-15cm distance at half throttle (2 bar) on my particular compressor which is a cheap-ish unit from the Norwegian equivalent of Halfords. There seems to me to be an aweful lot of variable parameters in the air-brushing process! I'm quite nervous while doing the actual spraying….because I don't actually know what I'm doing I suppose.

George
20 September 2020 at 18:37 #91486
Paul T
Participant
@pault84577
Hello George

That is a very nice satin finish, its not a finish that I have ever tried to do.

Paul
21 September 2020 at 08:26 #91487
ashley needham
Participant
@ashleyneedham69188
Nice finish George and worth the effort.

Matt and semi-Matt finishes I always thought were the trickiest to do.

Trevor has been trying to spray a fluorescent green, and that’s awful stuff….thin and very difficult to get even.

Ashley
21 September 2020 at 08:56 #91488
gecon
Participant
@gecon
I have found that matt is easy to acheive with an airbrush. I have had trouble getting it to shine -even a slight shimmer is demanding. But I think I now know what to do….more-or-less!

Flourescent needs to have white undercoat but I'm sure Trevor knows that already.

Hull heading for the cellar store today. It's a bit early in the build to do the hull paintwork but I needed the practice! I expect I'll be spraying again after the build. Bound to be some knocks and scratches.

George
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