Dab Chick rudder

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Dab Chick rudder

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  • #80131
    Noel
    Participant
      @noel26080

      I am doing a Dab Chick kit which is going OK so far. It is a free sailing 25” gaff rigger.

      Will add radio control, and I have started this by making a hatch into the 3rd compartment to house servos and battery.

      The question I have is where to put the rudder. The original design has a very small rudder that is mounted just aft the compartment where I have the servos. I have got something a bit bigger. Should I mount it in with the servos like this:

      5d917058-3a27-456e-8ebb-e071b474e945.jpeg

      Or is this too close to the keel?

      Would it be better here:

      5c6b9b51-fd52-4ae8-bfd5-3dd216553312.jpeg

      I know this is the better place but I will have to make another access hatch above it and also hole one of the bulkheads to pass through the control rod.

      Is it worth making more holes 8n the deck and bulkheads, that’s the thing.  Any suggestions gratefully received. Thank you.  

      Edited By Noel on 02/12/2018 18:13:27

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      #2811
      Noel
      Participant
        @noel26080
        #80133
        Ray Wood 3
        Participant
          @raywood3

          Hi Noel,

          Your second picture/position looks right to me as your rudder is relatively short

          Regards Ray

          #80134
          ashley needham
          Participant
            @ashleyneedham69188

            Noel. Rudders on sailing boats are normally `normous and I don't think yours is big enough (but that's what they all say).

            I will stand by to be corrected but you may need to extend this somewhat,

            Ashley

            #80136
            Noel
            Participant
              @noel26080

              It’s still double the size of the one in the kit, but I guess that was only really to keep it in trim.

              I think I will put it in the aft compartment and bite the bullet with making another hatch!

              Will get the next size up JP brass one too, but right now just want to get general layout correct before I plank up the sides.

              #80144
              Malcolm Frary
              Participant
                @malcolmfrary95515
                Posted by Noel on 02/12/2018 19:04:32:

                It’s still double the size of the one in the kit, but I guess that was only really to keep it in trim.

                I think I will put it in the aft compartment and bite the bullet with making another hatch!

                Will get the next size up JP brass one too, but right now just want to get general layout correct before I plank up the sides.

                When you find that a bigger, deeper rudder is needed, just stick a ply sheet of the new size on each side of the brass one and sand to shape and profile. As near the stern as practicable generally works best. My preference is to have the top of the rudder post above deck, it is much simpler to waterproof a linkage exit than a hatch. The stage in the pictures – I would seriously consider a well deck at the stern to accomodate the above deck linkage which would then exit via a simple bulkhead hole which could be protected by a rubber belows.

                #80145
                Noel
                Participant
                  @noel26080

                  Thanks everyone.

                  I'd thought about having the rudder post come through to deck level but I am unable to find one off the shelf long enough. I don't have the "stuff" to build my own rudder right now and I'd rather to stick to stuff that I know works.

                  But it will be as close to transom as possible without it underhanging the rear.

                  I will make the hatch cover for the rudder compartment part of the main deck house/cover that will go over the servo compartment too, so that should improve it's waterproofness. If I put 10mm of ply upstand around the hatches and make a housing to fit snuggly over that I reckon that will be ok.

                  #80161
                  Malcolm Frary
                  Participant
                    @malcolmfrary95515
                    Posted by Noel on 03/12/2018 12:28:05:

                    Thanks everyone.

                    I'd thought about having the rudder post come through to deck level but I am unable to find one off the shelf long enough. I don't have the "stuff" to build my own rudder right now and I'd rather to stick to stuff that I know works.

                    But it will be as close to transom as possible without it underhanging the rear.

                    I will make the hatch cover for the rudder compartment part of the main deck house/cover that will go over the servo compartment too, so that should improve it's waterproofness. If I put 10mm of ply upstand around the hatches and make a housing to fit snuggly over that I reckon that will be ok.

                    The shaft length issue was one reason for suggesting the dropped rear deck. The only ones with a shaft that long are likely to be from yacht fitting sellers. Even so, just using ply or plastic card to increase the size of a small brass one will work, just keep the same proportions before and behind the shaft, Enlarging the one you have is simple enough, and can be almost free. A full brass rudder the size needed will be far too heavy.

                    The other reason was that if the top of the shaft tube goes through the deck, it has inherent sideways support. While a simple skin doubler is usually OK on a powered boat (small rudder), the forces on a yacht rudder are greater.

                    #80167
                    Malcolm Frary
                    Participant
                      @malcolmfrary95515

                      Following an uncharacteristic bout of thinking, I measured the rudder on a similar size yacht – 5" deep, 2.5" across.

                      Sheathing the brass one will work, possibly fixing it so that it parallels the fin.

                      #80173
                      Noel
                      Participant
                        @noel26080

                        Thank you Malcolm for the ideas.

                        I am keen to minimize the hacking about of the hull, so that's why I am a bit averse to a well deck. I think I can make a better job of a hatch and cover than I could creating a lowered deck.

                        I have got the rudder and tube fitted now, with a length of 1/2" engine bearer glued to the bottom skin to strengthen it and take the lateral loads of the rudder.

                        The mainsail on this is not that huge so if the rudder does turn out to be too small (which you're right it probably will be) then I can as you say enlarge it!

                        Regarding the weight issue, I think I am going to have to add ballast in one of the forward compartments to offset the weight of the receiver battery so with a little extra that should take care of the brass rudder weight too.
                        Luckily the servos roughly line up with the keel bulb so they should not alter the trim too much.

                        #80181
                        ashley needham
                        Participant
                          @ashleyneedham69188

                          Noel. It is normally length that is needed in a sailing rudder and as yours is brass it will be easy to extend.

                          I would hold on the ballast until you have sailed it. You never know..

                          Ashley

                          #80182
                          Ray Wood 3
                          Participant
                            @raywood3

                            Hi Noel,

                            I think the problem with your power boat rudder will be when she heels over in the wind there won't be much blade left in the water, and the small blade size movement required to turn will be like putting on the brakes. Just a thought keep going anyway

                            Regards Ray

                            #80185
                            Noel
                            Participant
                              @noel26080

                              I'm quite comfortable with the fact I may have to make up a plywood rudder, but at least these brass ones are a robust base onto which you can build something bigger!

                              #80806
                              Noel
                              Participant
                                @noel26080

                                Thought I should update this.

                                The rudder in practice is on the small side, but it sailed well in light winds.

                                Last time it went out a couple of weeks ago it was very blustery and only when close hauled and really taking a gust did you have to ease sail a bit to get her to tack.

                                Bigger rudder would have helped, but as soon as you were off the wind even in a blow it steered well.

                                #80812
                                Ray Wood 3
                                Participant
                                  @raywood3

                                  Hi Noel

                                  I think it would be simple to sandwich the brass rudder with a deeper blade from balsa or ply rough up the brass to get a key for the epoxy, should give you better control.

                                  Regards Ray

                                  #81470
                                  Noel
                                  Participant
                                    @noel26080

                                    Brass rudder now has ply sandwich round it!

                                    b15749fd-d68a-4e7e-a224-099801fbde18.jpeg

                                    Profile copied vaguely from my Graupner micro magic.

                                    Now all I need are the gales to calm down and I can enjoy the difference this should make!

                                    #81472
                                    Tim Rowe
                                    Participant
                                      @timrowe83142
                                      Posted by Noel on 14/03/2019 11:00:21:

                                      Now all I need are the gales to calm down and I can enjoy the difference this should make!

                                      That should make a big differed Noel.

                                      Before the gales die down, don't forget to paint it wink

                                      Tim R

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