Building The Cigarette

[Rick IrvingParticipant @rickirving97311]

Hi all, I’m starting a new build and need a bit of help. There don’t seem to be any clubs for nitro boats here in Perth to go to, so I figure a forum is the next best place to find seasoned modelers that may be nice enough to offer advice. I promise not to be a one-post-wonder.

My dad purchased ‘The Cigarette’ when we were living in Singapore around 1978 (I was about 4) with all the bits needed to build and run it. You’ll see the pics (tomorrow?), but it’s a 3’ fiberglass deep vee hull with a 6.5cc 2-stroke (nitro) engine. I was going to build it with all the original parts, but the transmitter’s PCB has corroded so I’m using a new transmitter and servos (for now, as it might be repairable).

I’m fairly handy, but I’ve never built and run nitro models, and have no experience with fiberglass. I’ll try to put the questions in some sort of order:

• How should I prep the engine? Just a clean out with fuel and after-run lube? I’ll make a separate mount for running in the engine outside of the boat.
• What sort of bolt/washer/nut setup is best for engine mounting? I’m gluing in a wood motor base plate (part of the kit), bolting on an aluminium engine mount, and then bolting the engine to the mount. The limited instructions say to fiberglass the bolts into the base plate (which will let me remove the mount easily if needed), but my concern is nuts loosening during running. Is there a particular setup that’s best, or should I be using Loctite (or similar)?
• Given it’s a 0.4ci/6.5cc engine, what tank size is going to give me a good 15-20 mins of run time? I assume the tank should be over the COG, but please confirm.
• Where should I put breathing holes in the hull/deck? Surely there needs to be some…
• The engine has a 20mm diameter dump pipe. I think I need to attach this to a 20mm copper or brass pipe using a silicone sleeve. Does this sound right? I think I’m going to take this to a hole in the stern, but that means the exhaust passing the fuel tank and servo box (which I’ll make from ply), so does it need heat shielding?
• The inlet and outlet for the cooling water are threaded, so how should I attach the tubing?
• Do I need to lubricate my prop shaft?
• Do I just use fiberglass to seal around the rudder shaft, prop shaft and the exhaust? Does silicone sealant make sense in any situation?
• Should I expect water ingress? Should I install a drain plug?
• Is there a maximum rudder angle that I should be sticking to?

Thanks in advance, and I’ll make sure to post some pics of the build as it progresses.

Rick.

[Rick IrvingParticipant @rickirving97311]

Need some help from experienced modelers

[Rick IrvingParticipant @rickirving97311]

[Richard SimpsonParticipant @richardsimpson88330]

Hi Rick and welcome to the forum. You've certainly taken on a challenge there. The big problem is, as you have already discovered, is the the available places to run IC engines boats is seriously diminishing nowadays. This is driving a serious decline in the interest in this area of the hobby. The days some of us remember when most boats were IC powered and generally accepted on most waters have long gone. Nowadays of course the power outputs have been taken to a level where they are seen as a lot more anti-social and a potential danger to wildlife and that, coupled with the noise and potential pollution they can generate, have led to almost all council managed waters banning them.

There are one or two remaining waters where you can use them but I suspect that the decline will continue until we are only left with private waters and offshore being the only available places where they can run.

So faced with this, before diving into answering your questions, it has to be asked whether you would consider going to an electric set up instead?  

Edited By Richard Simpson on 03/01/2023 13:12:53

[Ray Wood 3Participant @raywood3]

Hi Rick,

The tech has moved on a bit since 1978 the current way of engine mounting for IC is on flexible mounting studs bonded onto the hull, much quieter running.

At which Perth are you living ? Scotland ? Australia ?

I bought one of those Sanwa radio sets in 1979 for £182.00 a lot of money back then, excellent quality

Regards Ray

[Rick IrvingParticipant @rickirving97311]

I'm in Perth Australia! I lived in Reigate UK for about 4 years, and while I visited Scotland a few times during that period, we never made it to their Perth.

I have thought about IC vs electric quite a lot, but I just can't convince myself not to use the IC. It's just so much cooler, and I've already got the bits. I'll find a spot on the river or a remote lake somewhere to run it.

Regarding the engine mounting, I'll stick with original, but perhaps insert some rubber between the wood plate and mount to help dampen vibrations then.

I didn't realise that Sanwa radio set was so pricey. It's going to take quite a bit of work to restore it as I'll need to bridge a lot of the PCB connections, but it is on my to-do list.

[ashley needhamParticipant @ashleyneedham69188]

Rick. Not an I/c man but….

Are the four bumps on the rear deck engine vents? (As on the real thing) and ifso,slotting opening front and rear should ventilate the boat ok.

Propshaft lubrication…yes. What type and how much is an ongoing debate here. Certainly a smear of grease and an oil up before use minimum.

Epoxy glue, fibreglass or car body filler (P38 or similar ) all good for fixing propshaft.

Rudder angle. If using a commercial rudder and tiller, then the tiller is likely to be about as long as the servo arm, giving you “an” amount of turn angle if coupled at the ends of the arms. This is easily adjusted by moving the linkage in the holes. Perhaps start with a smaller than maximum deflection and adjust after testing.

Should be NO water ingress, however the boat is large enough to accommodate some water so not a worry.

Not sure about the water tubing on the threaded spigots. Normally the tube just pushes on, but perhapsyou can get screw on bits to provide a firmer tube connection, a question for the i/c men, as are issues to do with the exhaust!

Ashley

Edited By ashley needham on 04/01/2023 07:50:59

[Richard SimpsonParticipant @richardsimpson88330]

When it comes to glues for bonding in the shaft and attaching parts to the hull then I would always strongly recommend doing some test peices before committing to large parts.

I am just doing a vac formed hull kit and went straight for my fallback safety net i.e. Araldite two part epoxy. I glued all the internal framing in with it. Then I discovered that it hadn't bonded and simply peeled away. I asked around and the best suggestion was Stabilit Express. This seemed to work OK. Then I had a play around with some scraps and discovered that the vac formed plastic was actually a polystyrene base so good old Airfix cement would do the job!

Bottom line, do the testing before you commit to gluing anything. I'm assuming yours is fibre glass but I would still recommend testing first, particularly when gluing different materials together.

[harry smith 1Participant @harrysmith1]

Hi Rick

Your idea on running in the motor OK.

Stainless steel bolts, washers and nuts.

Nuts to the top with double nuts and a little Loctite.

Glue the bolts with epoxy five minute.

Tank over the COG (about third of boat length from the stern.

I would custom( eg Milo tin) make the tank with baffles and a rear stump with the pickup from that running forward to the motor.

As the exhaust pipe exit the boat on one side I would mount it on silicone tube via bulkhead two and the transom.

A flex silicone tube between the exhaust pipe and the motor exhaust pipe.

Make the radio box on the other side behind bulkhead two.

Solid rod to the rudder and a flex wire in a plastic tube for the throttle.

Speaking of radios, I would replace with a Turnigy IA6 (Hobbyking) and new 4.5kg servos .

About $120au !!!!

These can run 20 model setups and only adding receivers plus servos.

Water ingress, I would totally seal off bulkhead one and add the Fibreglass surfboard foam in block to fill the space.

Add an oiler to both the prop, rudder tubes and found silicone tap grease works OK specially in salt water.

Cooling, pickup between rudder and prop.

Silicone fuel tubing works great.

To trim out motor power, I off setup the prop shaft to the right hand side of the rudder looking from the stern.

Canabus

[Ray Wood 3Participant @raywood3]

Hi Rick,

My only add to the chaps above sound advice would be to introduce a silencer between the manifold/pipe you have and the outlet otherwise they will hear it in Sydney !!, The exhaust will look good coming out of the transom

You can run the engine in , in the boat but keep the mixture rich , It wouldn't be good for it to run without a load.

Don't forget a starting belt , If you intend to use an electric starter.

Regards Ray

[Rick IrvingParticipant @rickirving97311]

Thanks everyone, now I just need to get on with it!

Ray – I have the original decals. The kit also came with outboards and railings, but I'll probably omit them.

I'll be sure to post progress in the build blog.

[Dave Cooper 6Participant @davecooper6]

Hi Rick,

Just a quick note on practicality. I found that when operating on unknown waters – weeds, reeds and shallows etc can catch you out….

The ability to 'reverse out' (going astern) can get you safely home and avoid further inconvenience – eg borrowing a full-size rowing boat !

With I/C, this can be done by using a reversing gearbox – there may be some commercial ones around, but, most of the ones I've seen have been made by model engineers. (Probably, an extra difficulty best avoided in the beginner stage….).

For electric, of course, no problem. You may be surprised by the performance that electric can give nowadays. You could also add a sound set-up as well to make it more realistic. Might be worth visiting a local model boat club if only to see /hear the latest offerings.

Good luck and have fun,

Dave

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