An amazing build project for someone

[Richard H DunnParticipant @richardhdunn]

[Richard H DunnParticipant @richardhdunn]

Hi Guys, I am not sure if this is the right place for this thread but I will do it and if wrong sorry Colin.

I have been contemplating a build of a vessel that a friend of mine gave me a full set of shipyard CAD plans for a few years back.

I am posting this to see if it interests anyone and if it does I will make arrangements with the source I got them from, consider this an expression of interest post.

It is an Anchor Handling Tug Supply Vessel from the Maersk line, MAERSK ADVANCER

This vessel would make an amazing model in a larger scale and the data available for this vessel is an unrivelled set of plans of EVERY part of the ship and there is high quality pdf files even the plans of the painting, I mean this is a completely full set of 400 plans including machinery , interior, even the winches plans.
I am coming to realize I might not get to this and I would love to see someone use this data.

I will not post any here but will give a few preview shots.

If anyone wants to do this I promise it will be a big project.

Any interest PM me and will will get it sorted if any interest, i would say this is an advanced level project.

 

Edited By Richard H Dunn on 18/06/2021 23:07:03

Edited By Richard H Dunn on 18/06/2021 23:12:07

[ashley needhamParticipant @ashleyneedham69188]

That’s an amazing opportunity Richard for the person who wants to build this boat. Not often you get that sort of detail to work with!

If only the things I choose to build had this sort of documentation!

Ashley

[Richard SimpsonParticipant @richardsimpson88330]

Posted by ashley needham on 19/06/2021 07:50:06:

That’s an amazing opportunity Richard for the person who wants to build this boat. Not often you get that sort of detail to work with!

If only the things I choose to build had this sort of documentation!

Ashley

Isn't that why you choose them Ashley?

[Richard SimpsonParticipant @richardsimpson88330]

I came across this one in Nassau in 2007 and was impressed not only by the sheer size of the vessel but by the huge great crane on the handling deck.

Quite a piece of kit and, as you say Richard, would make for a stunning model.

[ashley needhamParticipant @ashleyneedham69188]

Yes Richard, it is why I choose them! (Confounds the rivet counters)

thats a whopping crane and no mistake.

Ashley

Edited By ashley needham on 19/06/2021 09:39:20

[Richard H DunnParticipant @richardhdunn]

Yeah that's the thing, when you have plans of every possible fitting and parts its a real challenge to decide what to leave and what to build, but this at 1/35 or even 1/48 would look amazing, an expensive build due to propulsion systems but yeah
I should point out not charging for this either.
don't know why I thought of Gareth when I saw this.. haha

Also  about 200 photos from launch day around and onboard the ship, here are 2 full quality inspirational examples

Edited By Richard H Dunn on 19/06/2021 10:13:36

[Colin BishopModerator @colinbishop34627]

Thanks for posting this Richard..

It is an interesting question isn't it?

Do you choose a build because of the amount of information available or do you choose a prototype and find out as much information as you can (and sometimes be disappointed when it it isn't sufficient)? I have known people who incline both ways. The late Jimmy Wood, an absolute master modelmaker, was drawn to modern workboat vessels with very complex detail. You can see some of his work here:

**LINK**

He would probably have jumped at this project.

Although nowhere near this level of modelling, in my case I have to love the prototype to be prepared to invest the effort. and am willing to spend time chasing up various sources. At 1:150 scale the amount of detail is far less than on larger scales so the amount of detail available probably meets my ability to reproduce it to an acceptable (for me) level.

The Maersk Advancer is a handsome vessl of its type and will appeal to many although it isn't the subject for me as, say, Wahine would be.

Colin

[Ray Wood 3Participant @raywood3]

Hi Richard,

That level of information is amazing and a curse at the same time, to be honest the ships hull and superstructure maybe the easy part of the build ! but the deck fittings and plant and equipment oh wow what a challenge !!

With regards to size and scale, I'm fast coming to the conclusion that anything over 3 – 4 feet in length becomes a problem, so I'd agree with Colin at 1:150 it will be a practical project

Regards Ray

[Gareth JonesParticipant @garethjones79649]

Hi Richard,

I am very flattered that you seem to have me in mind for such a big complex build project. My first thoughts were that it was very appealing and it would be possible to build an absolutely stunning detailed model from the plans you have. However after a few minutes thought, reality began to sink in and I am afraid there are a number of practical issues that mitigate against it..

My current project is an International A class yacht. Its a 50 year old design, about 7 feet long, just over 8 feet high and weighs just under 70 lbs. It will just fit in our car, but being realistic, a six foot long model would be a more practical limit for a scale project. The picture below shows Sirius at the beginning of the year, its advanced to the point where it should be complete, by the end of this month, apart from the sails which are on order.

Based on the data I Googled, Maersk Advancer is about 300 ft long so the scale of the model would have to be about 1:50. I prefer to build at a bigger scale, ideally 1:24 where reasonably small detailed parts are practical to build without getting too fiddly. Unfortunately, I have realised that with advancing years, my fingers are not as dexterous as they used to be. Also my eyesight is deteriorating as I am developing cataracts and will probably need surgery in the next few years..

My last scale build was a 1:16 Humber sloop, which had the attraction of being a type of vessel with a strong local connection to where I live. I have been given a 1:24 German S boat hull and lots of detailed information and I feel I owe it to the person who gave it me to build it, Alas I can't work up any enthusiasm for the model and I just get it out of the loft occasionally, look at it and then put it away again. Shemarah had the appeal that I was probably the first to build from that set of plans and had the knowledge that the skipper of the full sized vessel was watching its progress on the forum. I don't think Maersk Advancer would have the same appeal but it has reawakened my interest in building another scale model. Maybe I should dust off my plans for a Humber Keel or look for something similar to Maersk Advancer, but somewhat smaller and ideally with a local connection.

I am glad to see you have restarted work on Wahine, I will keep checking on your progress so keep up the good work.

Best regards, Gareth

[Richard H DunnParticipant @richardhdunn]

Fair enough Gareth

It was probably because I use the Shemarah 11 blog from time to time to remind me of what's to come.

I am building a 6m , my first yacht currently as well.

I am fighting off the temptation to start it as I am not one to have lots of unfinished hulls floating around, 2-3 maybe but no more.

@Colin Yes I get many people with no ties to Wahine wanting to do models and asking me for plans, one was in the Marine Modelling mag (now out of print) back in about 2014 that was done in Canada, but it was too small for real detail I think it was about 900mm long.
I think its just because she was such a looker and captivates, captivated the many people who saw her or see her now. which is the reason for me aside from the family links of course.

Edited By Richard H Dunn on 20/06/2021 01:18:31

Edited By Richard H Dunn on 20/06/2021 01:19:13

[Paul TParticipant @pault84577]

Richard

This would be a very good model to build especially as you have the CAD designs and would suit me perfectly as it is a simple task to convert the digital information to be used by my laser cutter.

However to be a 'stick in the mud' who owns the copyright to the CAD information and do you have their explicit permission to use the CAD drawings in this way.

Paul

[Ray Wood 3Participant @raywood3]

Hi All,

The copyright issue of using the CAD information would only become an issue if you were to build a fullsized ship from them and make some financial gain ?, I'm sure what would be viewed as making a toy/model boat would not be an problem, otherwise we are all in trouble

Regards Ray

[Richard H DunnParticipant @richardhdunn]

Guys at the end of the day it's not out on the web for all in glory.
These plans were burnt to DVD by the ships chief engineer for the purpose of a model that's coming from my friend who they were burnt for , he handed them on to me as I collect plans to.at the end of the day if you don't feel comfortable don't use them, but if you want to build a model from actual yard plans this is always going to be a thing you need to be comfortable with regardless.

My Wahine is built from 389 yard plans from an archive and I have not had any issues with that despite the plans bearing the yard stamp etc
If I give these to someone to build we would expect them to stay with that person but that's it.
Also the ship has been sold I assume for scrapping now or very soon as she was launched in 2004 so that always has an impact to.

These are pdfs of plans and photos, not actual cad dwg or dxf files Paul

[Richard H DunnParticipant @richardhdunn]

[Richard H DunnParticipant @richardhdunn]

This is the only plan I will show as as an example, it is 9933 x 7016 px in tiff format not pdf sorry.
so this is a lot smaller image but you can see whats included, x that by 400 for the rest of it.

 

Edited By Richard H Dunn on 22/06/2021 06:58:32

[redpmgParticipant @redpmg]

I was lucky enough to be given the digital lines of a very popular and well known small yacht which at one time I had the use of on condition it was for my use only – It will stay that way and I will never pass those on to anyone at all.

If the details are there its entirely possible to recreate the full size boat from them – a friend of mine has built one such electric powered 16ft launch from them – and most designers make their (usually slim ) living from selling the plans – so a lot of designers don't give much away in their study plans. There is only one I know of who sells plans to make models of his boats – spoke to him years ago at the Wooden Boat show at Beale Park when he was very reluctant to do so – but see the occasional ad in the magazine for his plans now.

Edited By redpmg on 22/06/2021 12:21:15

[Paul TParticipant @pault84577]

Dear All

Copyright and Intellectual Copyright applies to any drawing/information that is marked with the copyright sign or specifically identified that the contents are copyright, it doesn't matter what scale or format the drawings/information are supplied in as the copyright still applies.

In the case of yard or working drawings the copyright usually rests with the customer as they are the ones who commissioned both the initial design and construction. The yard only have use of the drawings during the construction phase and have to sign strict contractual conditions that include the security and protection of the design information.

Using non licenced copyrighted information usually becomes a problem when it is advertised on the open market, either for payment or for free.

Depending upon the age of the design some companies might not bother, or have gone out of business but some will get their legal team to issue a Cease and Desist notice informing you to stop violating their copyright, demanding that all data/information is returned and, worse of all, threaten further legal action if you don't disclose source of the information.

If you are going to build a model using the original designs as a basis for the build It is always advisable to seek written permission from the copyright holder, most will freely give this permission providing the designs will only be used for a 'one off' scale build.

Paul

[Colin BishopModerator @colinbishop34627]

I really don't think there is an issue in this particular circumstance Paul. If you were going to use the plans to build a full size ship it might be different but producing a model of a ship which is 17 years old and currently laid up in Turkey is hardly likely to induce a flurry of lawsuits! The location supports Richard's suggestion that the ship is destined for scrapping.

Personally in this situation, I wouldn't hesitate to use these plans for a personal one off model if it attracted me as a project.

Back in the early 1980s I bought a copy of the Denny build plans of the Isleof Wight Ferry Shanklin commissioned by the Southern Railway from the National Maritime Museum for the then rather large sum of £50.

I built my model and the then owners of this magazine commissioned Dave Metcalf to produce a set of model maker's drawings from the Denny plans which were published under my name. These plans went into the Model Boats Plans Service and are still available from Sarik. They are also listed by a small outfit in Canada who are offering a mixture of old Nexus plans, some of which are still listed by Sarik and some of which are no longer available from them.

As far as I can tell, nobody seems too bothered about it all.

It is more of an issue when plans of modern ships are circulated which might breach commercial confidentiality and in that case you do need to get the requisite permissions. The RNLI are also very touchy about people publishing their lifeboat plans.

I am currently building the liner Miltiades of 1903 from photos of plans held by the National Maritime Museum. I was allowed to photograph the plans for free on the basis that the images were for my personal use only.

So basically it all seems to boil down to whether you might be infringing commercial confidentiality (modern vessels) or commercial copyright if you are reproducing plans which are currently on sale by the legitimate copyright holders who are expecting to derive an income from them.

There are hundreds of model making plans based on full size vessels which are commercially available. Some of those have derived from information given freely by the shipowners/shipbuilders whilst others have been compiled from information in the public domain.

From the model maker's point of view, I think there is only an issue if you are duplicating plans on sale by copyright holders or reproducing information which might be commercially sensitive.

I really don't see any problems with Richard's offer whatever the theoretical issues might be.

One has to be pragmatic in these situations. If a model of Maersk Advancer were to be built then just who would be financially disadvantaged by it?

Colin

[Colin BishopModerator @colinbishop34627]

I really don't think there is an issue in this particular circumstance Paul. If you were going to use the plans to build a full size ship it might be different but producing a model of a ship which is 17 years old and currently laid up in Turkey is hardly likely to induce a flurry of lawsuits! The location supports Richard's suggestion that the ship is destined for scrapping.

Personally in this situation, I wouldn't hesitate to use these plans for a personal one off model if it attracted me as a project.

Back in the early 1980s I bought a copy of the Denny build plans of the Isleof Wight Ferry Shanklin commissioned by the Southern Railway from the National Maritime Museum for the then rather large sum of £50.

I built my model and the then owners of this magazine commissioned Dave Metcalf to produce a set of model maker's drawings from the Denny plans which were published under my name. These plans went into the Model Boats Plans Service and are still available from Sarik. They are also listed by a small outfit in Canada who are offering a mixture of old Nexus plans, some of which are still listed by Sarik and some of which are no longer available from them.

As far as I can tell, nobody seems too bothered about it all.

It is more of an issue when plans of modern ships are circulated which might breach commercial confidentiality and in that case you do need to get the requisite permissions. The RNLI are also very touchy about people publishing their lifeboat plans.

I am currently building the liner Miltiades of 1903 from photos of plans held by the National Maritime Museum. I was allowed to photograph the plans for free on the basis that the images were for my personal use only.

So basically it all seems to boil down to whether you might be infringing commercial confidentiality (modern vessels) or commercial copyright if you are reproducing plans which are currently on sale by the legitimate copyright holders who are expecting to derive an income from them.

There are hundreds of model making plans based on full size vessels which are commercially available. Some of those have derived from information given freely by the shipowners/shipbuilders whilst others have been compiled from information in the public domain.

From the model maker's point of view, I think there is only an issue if you are duplicating plans on sale by copyright holders or reproducing information which might be commercially sensitive.

I really don't see any problems with Richard's offer whatever the theoretical issues might be.

One has to be pragmatic in these situations. If a model of Maersk Advancer were to be built then just who would be financially disadvantaged by it?

Colin

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