61′ Barnett class lifeboat

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61′ Barnett class lifeboat

Home Forums Scratch build 61′ Barnett class lifeboat

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  • #102153
    neil hp
    Participant
      @neilhp
      Posted by ashley needham on 26/09/2022 17:07:25:

      ….can we have that on video as well please???

      Ashley

      it might well happen Ashley if i do have problems, as no doubt I'll be too pre-ocupied in getting it all to release rather than to turn the camera off lol.

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      #102154
      neil hp
      Participant
        @neilhp

        The plug has now had 2 coats of wax, none silicon type specially made for mould release! It will have two more waxings tonight and then one tomorrow morning before a coating of release agent.

        Once the release agent it will be given its' first layer….the gelcoat, tomorrow night, as late as possible in a heated workshop, before laying up the chopped strand matting on wednesday morning.

        This afternoon I re-organised a working area where I could lay out all the materials and start cutting the matting into strips, rectangles and triangles for the different areas of the plug to be covered.

        Also, I split the matting.

        I always order a heavier weave of matting as it works out cheaper in the long run, is easier to lay up without the hassle of getting a roller into tight areas once split into thinner sheets, and on tight curves such as working around the belting and into the tight groove made between the belting and the flance it is forgiving and never collects air bubbles, as long as you don't lay up too much whilst the resin is still "wet", especially when working with small width brushes to stipple the mat into the grooves.

        So!, from tomorrow its all hands on deck!, and no rest until the mould is finished by the weekend.

        And it was such a delight to smell that oudor of grp resin again….not done any glassing up for at least 8 years.

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        #102155
        Ray Wood 3
        Participant
          @raywood3

          Hi Neil,

          Yes, I'm also loving your work, I have thought it through many times but never had a go at moulding a big hull !! It also means your making such a fine job I don't need too, but a labour of love for the subject

          Regards Ray

          #102157
          ashley needham
          Participant
            @ashleyneedham69188

            Neil. Do you use ‘standard’ set time resin or long set?

            I have been using 9hr set Epoxy resin and I find it’s very convenient as you don’t have to rush, and i can mix a minimum quantity as I know I can easy mix more up. The finished article can be re-visited over a period of time to correct runs etc.

            Ashley

            #102158
            Tim Rowe
            Participant
              @timrowe83142

              Hi Ashley

              I don't think Neil has that much choice as he is using polyester cured with a catalyst. You can buy resin without any accelerator and add your own to get a slightly longer cure time but the risk is a very long or inadequate cure. Most polyester or vinylester resins are pre-accelerated. You cannot reduce the catalyst or you will very definitely get an uncured moulding.

              Hi Neil

              Do you have any rovings? If so you can lay them along the internal corners of your plug. This will help avoid air entrapment if you have trouble getting the chop strand mat (CSM) into the corners. It also avoids having resin rich external corners in your mould which are liable to chip. If you don't have any you can tease the fibres out of the mat which will be around 40mm long and lay them into the corners the same way only it is a bit more fiddly.
              You can also use rovings or chopped fibres to lay each side of the sharp edge of your propeller tunnels. This will effectively round off the corners and again help the first layers of CSM to lay over the corner without any voids. Most of the GRP work I do at the moment is motor cowls for model aircraft. It is very rewarding when it all turns out right.

              Tim R

              #102160
              neil hp
              Participant
                @neilhp

                as Tim says, the resin is pre accellerated., and with the "slow" catylist I get around 30 – 40 minutes working time maximum , so i can judge after many years at the game just how much i can lay in such time……………but no stops for a breather…..none stop stippling lol.

                never needed to use rovings Tim, as the models i build have very few right aangles or sharp corners, even the keel has rounded edges which, the split thinner layers of matting cope well with as they don't have the same quality as a 450 gram matting which as a single layer can be very stiff to mould around a right angle or corner.

                #102162
                neil hp
                Participant
                  @neilhp

                  RIGHT!!!!!………ready for blast off!

                  Dug out my catylist measuring bottle, my PVA, release agent, brushes and given the plug a coating of pva…..signed and sealed, belt and braces, the grp should now NOT stick to the plug.

                  I have found my measuring chart for catylist to resin ratio, and the most important sign I have in my workshop……..a remender NEVER EVER do what I did once in my early years of grp laminating…….I forgot in my haste to put the hardener into the resin……and a whole side of gelcoat went on a plug……..never in a month of sundays to harden!!!

                  It took me a week of cleaning, wiping and removing a very sticky mess from a plug…….AND THEN I had to re-do the plug with all the preperation spent on it before my stupidity had kicked in, in haste.

                  I certainly learned by that mistake.

                  So tonight I will lay up the gelcoat, making sure that the pva release agent has dried thoroughly, and then I have 24 hours in which to lay up my matting and resin……..but hope to get it on within an optimum of 12 hours at the latest tomorrow morning.

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                  #102172
                  neil hp
                  Participant
                    @neilhp

                    The plug has now had 2 coats of wax, none silicon type specially made for mould release! It will have two more waxings tonight and then one tomorrow morning before a coating of release agent.

                    Once the release agent it will be given its' first layer….the gelcoat, tomorrow night, as late as possible in a heated workshop, before laying up the chopped strand matting on wednesday morning.

                    This afternoon I re-organised a working area where I could lay out all the materials and start cutting the matting into strips, rectangles and triangles for the different areas of the plug to be covered.

                    Also, I split the matting.

                    I always order a heavier weave of matting as it works out cheaper in the long run, is easier to lay up without the hassle of getting a roller into tight areas once split into thinner sheets, and on tight curves such as working around the belting and into the tight groove made between the belting and the flange it is forgiving and never collects air bubbles, as long as you don't lay up too much whilst the resin is still "wet", especially when working with small width brushes to stipple the mat into the grooves.

                    So!, from tomorrow its all hands on deck!, and no rest until the mould is finished by the weekend.

                    And it was such a delight to smell that oudor of grp resin again….not done any glassing up for at least 8 years.

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                    #102174
                    Richard Simpson
                    Participant
                      @richardsimpson88330

                      Looks superb Neil. Your previous cock up made me smile and reminded me of my own a few years ago. I was using some West resin to seal a clinker hull and had a complete brain fart. Rather than pour the resin and then hardener into a metal container I threw the hardener into the plastic jar that the resin came in. After getting around 1/4 of it onto the model the stuff in the plastic jar started to heat up. It got hotter and hotter until it melted the jar then the rapidly curing bubbling mess started to spread across the work bench. Luckily I always have cutting mats on the workbench as I couldn't touch the stuff as it was too hot.

                      In the end it cost me a new cutting mat and three new kitchen drawer fronts! Doh!

                      #102177
                      neil hp
                      Participant
                        @neilhp

                        we all have surreel moments Richard.

                        i had one yesterday and am still laughing at it……but nothing to do with modellng.

                        i dropped my daughter off on a street in blackpool notorious for deadbeats…it was the rear entrance to he staff at a hotel on blackpool prom. having watched from a distance that she got into the hotel safely i started driving home.

                        10 minutes later she rang me from her Apple i phone to say she had lost her apple watch that her boyfriend had bought her for christmas, and could i come back and look for it on the street.

                        racing back i thought, no chance………and no chance was there i couldn't find it. so text her to say no.

                        she rang me and said, its in your car as i have satalite tracking from phone to watch, and so i went to the location after calling the police to report it lost or stolen, as t was now on the move from place to place.

                        she kept sending me locations and i kept following until by 14.00 hours i gave up as every time i got to the place where the vehicle location had been i made enquiries, but no one seemed to know anything. i told her that i would wait until the vehicle had parked up for the night and then go out to see who ever was driving.

                        Baring in mind that the watch had cost £500 at Christmas i was determined to find it, but by now had lost the will to live, lol.

                        at 14.50 hours a chap rang my mobile and asked, are you the father and next of kin to a Mollie……….omg i thought, and then remembered she had programmed me in as her contact!…..i asked…….are you a gentleman holding an apple i watch……..yes came the answer! I told him my daughter had lost it on Dixon road……yes , one of my gulley sweeper drivers had seen it in the road, and picked it up before he swepped it in to the vehicle tank with the brushes, but as we don't allow the drivers to take their phones with them he couldn't report it until he arrived back at the depot 10 minutes ago.

                        I had been following a bloody road sweeper all day, and at one stage passed it on the road.never in my world of scenario's had i thought that each stop on the sat nav tracking that it was a gulley wash out, and not an Amazon delivery lol ….i slipped the foreman and the driver 20 quid each to buy a beer or too………what a wierd day yesterday was………

                        thank goodness today is going ok so far. lol.

                        #102178
                        neil hp
                        Participant
                          @neilhp

                          The first layers of chop strand matting have gone on to the gelcoat and very well stippled in to the sharp edges and corners.

                          i do this one overall layer first so that it doesn't get too thick and hide any air bubbles in the corners, and it looks prety well clear now with a good stippling of the matting and resin.

                          once this has gone off in about 30 minutes i can then make another mix of resin and hardener, and work through the afternoon to get a full complement of layers of matting on to the plug.

                          It will then be left overnight to go off and harden before i remove the keel flange and then waxing up the other half of the plug ready for starting the process again late thursday night/friday.

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                          #102180
                          neil hp
                          Participant
                            @neilhp

                            TIME FLIES when you are having fun???

                            Well it has done since I laid the first brush full of white gelcoat last night!

                            In all, taking in to account cutting the chop strand mat and splitting it into thinner sizeable pieces for handy laying down, the gelcoat mixing and painting on to the half side of the plug, and then two sessions of laying up the hull in two seperate sessions, the whole process of laying up that one side has taken me nearly 6 hours in total……….

                            But I am pleased with the result before my eyes, and if the mould turns out as good as it looks,

                            I'll be a happy bunny!

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                            #102187
                            neil hp
                            Participant
                              @neilhp

                              Apart from nursing little pooch as she has been sick in the night for some reason, but her temperature is fine and one more thing to clean up, the day has started well!

                              My first job was to run a sander all over the matting laid last night………why, you ask. Self preservation and to avoid pain!!!

                              You will, no matter how long and how hard you stipple or roll the surface of wet grp/resin, there will always be those strands, hardened by the resin that are just like needles…………..and hurt far more than steel needles when they pierce your skin, and break off under the skin, and so I always give a newly laid and hardened grp surface a good sanding with 60 grade abrasive paper……avoids pain and tears.

                              I started the mornings work by trimming the ragged edge of the grp on the top and ends of the flange with a grp blade fitted into the jig saw, and once done and then on to cleaning off the plasticine, whitetack sticky patches and pins from the other side of the keelson flange,

                              I then unscrewed the blocks holding the flange to the plug so that it was free to remove.

                              If the mould splits as easily as the first half and the flange did with absolutely no force at all using my nylon wedges on Sunday, job will be a guddun, as it just pinged off with no effort at all.

                              And then I scraped off the gap filling plasticine from the keel which has made a perfect line between keel and grp flange.

                              I sanded the top and side edges of the flange to remove any raised or sharp edges, wiped the flange with a soft damp cloth, and then brushed the dust and bits of sanding debry from the plug, and applied that sides' first coat of release wax. Another will go on in a half hour, followed by two more by lunch, hoping to get the release agent on sometime this afternoon. I can then get the gelcoat on this evening for the second half of the mould.

                              WHOOOPPPEEEEE!!!!!

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                              #102195
                              neil hp
                              Participant
                                @neilhp

                                As forcast, the second half of the mould has now had its wax and release agent applied…………

                                And the gelcoat has been painted on to the plug.

                                If all goes well the chop strand matting will be laid up as was the first side, tomorrow, and then left to cure over the weekend, when by Sunday afternoon, I'll trim off the waste and some of the flange down to a narrower strip all round and then drill the flanges, whilst still attached to the plug for the coach bolts to eventually hold the two halves of the mould together, for the process of laying up some hulls.

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                                #102203
                                neil hp
                                Participant
                                  @neilhp

                                  Well, that is it!

                                  Both halves of the hull have been glassed up, and tbh have both gone smoothly with no problems, and these will be left as they are until sunday afternoon to cure well in a heated workshop ……hate to think what the lecky bill will be like next month…..but hey ho!

                                  Tomorrow i will concentrate on the mould for the cabin which is ready for glassing up as it has been waxed………just needs the blue release agent adding.

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                                  And this 3rd below will be the first section of the cabin to be laid up. 

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                                  Edited By neil howard-pritchard on 30/09/2022 17:20:16

                                  #102209
                                  neil hp
                                  Participant
                                    @neilhp

                                    And now that the main hull mould has gone off and started it's curing process over the next couple of days, my attention moved on to the cabin/engine casing plug.

                                    I had waxed it a few weeks ago and this was still obvious to the touch, and so I painted on the blue release agent.

                                    Once it had dried I applied the gelcoat to the read starboard side, amd tomorrow will lay up the chopped strand matting to that area.

                                    On a charge now, and hopefully should have this mould completed by sunday night.

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                                    #102211
                                    Stephen Garrad
                                    Participant
                                      @stephengarrad28964

                                      Hi Neil

                                      When you started this project I thought you were building a model but it seems that you have built a plug to build a mould to build a hull. That seems a long way round. Is it that you are doing it that way so you end up with a GRP hull or are you intending to produce multiple hulls?

                                      Stephen

                                      #102214
                                      Richard Simpson
                                      Participant
                                        @richardsimpson88330

                                        While it gives you that option Stephen, and I'm sure Neil is going to make more than one hull from his mould, I have a model that was scratch built by a gent who used exactly the same process for a single hull. It may seem a long way round but it does allow you to create a very light yet very strong fibre glass hull that is probably way stronger and more robust than a wooden equivalent.

                                        #102229
                                        neil hp
                                        Participant
                                          @neilhp
                                          Posted by Stephen Garrad on 30/09/2022 21:44:12:

                                          Hi Neil

                                          When you started this project I thought you were building a model but it seems that you have built a plug to build a mould to build a hull. That seems a long way round. Is it that you are doing it that way so you end up with a GRP hull or are you intending to produce multiple hulls?

                                          Stephen

                                          My intention wasn't to produce any multiple hulls from a mould Stephen, but my plank on frame building leaves very much to be desired………to put it plainly my plank on frame hulls need more filler than the Titanic would if she were to be raised from the deapths.

                                          And so it is easier for me to make a plug, then a mould and from that mouldings.GRP doesn't sink, unless you are extremely useless or stupid, and i am neither of those, and the last model i sailed that was plank on frame leaked more water than the Hoover dam, lol.

                                          However, i have been asked by two friends to produce a set of mouldings as they do so much for the RNLI, that i am gifting them a set each………….but, what happens after that, i don't know.

                                          But i doubt it will ever produce the same interest as my first kit did, the Ann Letitia Russell, lifeboat that my friend Dave Metcalf now produces under his banner.

                                          #102230
                                          neil hp
                                          Participant
                                            @neilhp
                                            Posted by Richard Simpson on 30/09/2022 22:52:16:

                                            While it gives you that option Stephen, and I'm sure Neil is going to make more than one hull from his mould, I have a model that was scratch built by a gent who used exactly the same process for a single hull. It may seem a long way round but it does allow you to create a very light yet very strong fibre glass hull that is probably way stronger and more robust than a wooden equivalent.

                                            Hi, Richard….exactly right…….I wouldn't think of building in any other way these days.

                                            And besides, I enjoy fibre glass moulding infinitely more than I do plank on frame building.

                                            There is a gent called John Allen who is building the most exquisite, and beautiful lifeboat from plank on frame, and I just lust after his skills, knowing that even with my long years of building, I could never ever reach those heights in experience, and I believe, it is his first POF model……..just amazing workmanship and skills.

                                             

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                                            Edited By neil howard-pritchard on 01/10/2022 16:53:27

                                            Edited By neil howard-pritchard on 01/10/2022 16:54:05

                                            #102240
                                            neil hp
                                            Participant
                                              @neilhp

                                              The flange has been removed from the aft part of the plug, and….

                                              The Second side of the plug is now ready for laying the gelcoat as soon as the release agent has dried.

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                                              #102243
                                              Stephen Garrad
                                              Participant
                                                @stephengarrad28964

                                                My intention wasn't to produce any multiple hulls from a mould Stephen, but my plank on frame building leaves very much to be desired………to put it plainly my plank on frame hulls need more filler than the Titanic would if she were to be raised from the deapths.

                                                And so it is easier for me to make a plug, then a mould and from that mouldings.GRP doesn't sink, unless you are extremely useless or stupid, and i am neither of those, and the last model i sailed that was plank on frame leaked more water than the Hoover dam, lol.

                                                However, i have been asked by two friends to produce a set of mouldings as they do so much for the RNLI, that i am gifting them a set each………….but, what happens after that, i don't know.

                                                But i doubt it will ever produce the same interest as my first kit did, the Ann Letitia Russell, lifeboat that my friend Dave Metcalf now produces under his banner.

                                                Hi Neil

                                                Thanks for the explanation, it's certainly been interesting to follow the build, I've never seen any GRP work done.

                                                Stephen.

                                                #102246
                                                neil hp
                                                Participant
                                                  @neilhp

                                                  i really enjoy it Stephen.

                                                  It was whilst i was teaching in Australia, and although it was all wraooed up as "Industrial Arts" it was just a flash Ozzie term for woodwork, metal work and technical drawing.

                                                  It was there that i was asked if i would like to go on a course to learn about glass fibre laminating, and i jumped at the chance………

                                                  and what did i build [it was a free choice and moulds were available for quite a few things]

                                                  I built a boat……….well not quite a "boat" as such………..i built a 16' Canadian C1 canoe in red white and blue gelcoat lol……..me and my mates had great fun with it, and gave it to a friend when i returned home to the UK………..bit big to tuck under my arm on the cruise ship home, lol……….it was similar to this one

                                                  and that was that for me……….have loved laminating ever sinse.

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                                                  #102247
                                                  neil hp
                                                  Participant
                                                    @neilhp

                                                    anyway……..happy memories, and i often wonder if my canoe is still sailing.

                                                    so back to the build….

                                                    The second side gelcoated,

                                                    And all the chopped strand matting cut and ready for laying up tomorrow morning……..

                                                    Thats if I can get up early enough after a couple of beers tonight,

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                                                    #102259
                                                    neil hp
                                                    Participant
                                                      @neilhp

                                                      I'm almost there with the grp moulds for both the hull AND the cabin/engine casing for my new lifeboat model.

                                                      As the mould for the hull is in its final curing process under warm heat, it gives me the chance to work on the cabin mould.

                                                      I have laid up the 2nd of a 3 part mould for the cabin/engine casing, and also added an extra layer to the 1st part that I laid yesterday as it had very ever so slightly come away from the cross flange as it cured overnight……..and looked just a little thin. This will help it from anymore movement.

                                                      And this will be ready for stripping the final front flange this afternoon, and starting the 3 part process of release agent, then gelcoat and final layering up of chopped strand matting late on tonight to go off over night,…..

                                                      That is a moment I will rejoice in, as it has been a long slog due to its' size and weight.

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