What paint??

[GrumpsParticipant @grumps]

wot paint woes

[GrumpsParticipant @grumps]

Sorry to raise this hoary old question again, but the only relevant thread I could find is quite old. I'm building a boat for granddaughter No.2. It's a pimped Artesania Atlantis (all wood construction). I'm struggling to work out what to paint it with. My instinct tells me NOT acrylic, but solvent-based enamel is the way to go. The problem is that there's not much enamel about these days. Previous threads have suggested using household Dulux (I assume oil based gloss) – but this is hard to get now, expensive and in limited colours. I thought I'd struck gold with Craftmaster Paints (www.craftmasterpaints.co.uk). However, they tell me that their enamel paints are not suitable for immersion – even for very short periods. Mind you, their technical people had never heard of sanding sealer, so maybe I should take this with a pinch of salt! So, I'm in a bit of a quandary. I will seal the finished boat with sanding sealer (solvent-based) and was planning to use Craftmaster's high build undercoat directly on that, followed by topcoats – all sprayed. Previous threads have suggested Halfords spray acrylics, but I've no idea what these paints are and how they behave. I'm guessing I'm missing something obvious here, but in this 'low VoC age', just what the heck do people use? Incidentally, my last build for granddaughter No. 1 was an Aeronaut Diva (pic attached). This was less of a problem, as it was mostly varnished. However, the hull below the waterline was sprayed with Humbrol white enamel (after sanding sealer and Humbrol undercoat) and the finish is looking very scrappy after a year's sailing! I don't think Humbrol's the way to go, even if its enamels come back on the market.

Edited By Grumps on 18/05/2022 20:28:58

Edited By Grumps on 18/05/2022 20:32:18

Edited By Grumps on 18/05/2022 20:36:45

[Martin Smith 8Participant @martinsmith8]

Hi I’m new to this and recently built an Aero-Naut Fishing trawler this I painted with Halfords spray cans which were enamel. Wasn’t cheap but for a first go I’m fairly happy.

[ashley needhamParticipant @ashleyneedham69188]

Grumps. Anything will do. Modern Acrylics are up for the challenge. My last builds have been painted with Pebo craft acrylic paint and/or Halfords Acrylic spray. Remember acrylic paint is essentially plastic in a water suspension.

I use Rustins grey primer for virtually all my work now unless a super duper shiny topcoat is required and then a spray undercoat is better, (Halfords).

i also used to use sanding sealer but use EzeKote acrylic resin now. I have found that the sanding sealer cracks with age and flakes off corners. To be honest, just slap some slightly thinned undercoat on, does just as well.

HOWEVER everyone has their own method.

Ashley

[GrumpsParticipant @grumps]

Thanks both for the swift responses – very helpful. I'll investigate the products you've suggested. Thank you!

Paul (Grumps)

[Chris EParticipant @chrise]

Posted by ashley needham on 18/05/2022 23:35:16:

Grumps. Anything will do. Modern Acrylics are up for the challenge. My last builds have been painted with Pebo craft acrylic paint and/or Halfords Acrylic spray. Remember acrylic paint is essentially plastic in a water suspension.

I use Rustins grey primer for virtually all my work now unless a super duper shiny topcoat is required and then a spray undercoat is better, (Halfords).

i also used to use sanding sealer but use EzeKote acrylic resin now. I have found that the sanding sealer cracks with age and flakes off corners. To be honest, just slap some slightly thinned undercoat on, does just as well.

HOWEVER everyone has their own method.

Ashley

 

To avoid confusion.

Rustins do a water based grey primer/ undercoat.     Primer/ Undercoat

and they also do an oil based undercoat.    Undercoat

Which do you use?

My experience of oil based products is not good since they messed around with the solvents a few years ago.

Edited By Chris E on 19/05/2022 10:42:11

[ashley needhamParticipant @ashleyneedham69188]

Acrylic undercoat. Oddly enough I did but a tin of oil dark grey u/c and it took ages to dry and was almost black…

Ashley

[Richard SimpsonParticipant @richardsimpson88330]

I have painted a fairly large hull only a couple of months ago with Craftmaster Coach Enamel, specifically because the specification sheet for the paint stated "Excellent water resistance and flexibility". I really cannot imagine an oil based enamel not being water resistant so I cannot understand why anyone would say otherwise. Their paints are designed to be used on canal barges and on steam powered vehicles so water resistance would be high on the list of priorities. Check here:

Craftmaster Coach Enamel

I actually think the paint is perfect for model boat use.

[Colin BishopModerator @colinbishop34627]

Chris is right about varying gloss paint quality. I'm pretty sure the regular Dulux and other stuff you buy in the DiY emporiums is not as durable as it used to be.

Last time we had some redecs done on the outside of our house (I'm not safe up a ladder now!) I supplied the painter with International Toplac one part Yacht enamel. He was suspicious at first but after an hour came down and said 'this paint is marvellous'.

It costs more than the standard offerings but should last much longer being intended for the marine environment.

I would imagine that the Craftmaster paint is just as good judging by the data sheet as it is a specialist product.

Colin

[Chris FellowsParticipant @chrisfellows72943]

I have bought some Halfords spray paint for my Fairey builds but for a number of reasons I really do fancy brush painting. Went for spray paint to avoid brushmarks but it seems as though with suitable good quality paints as mentioned by Richard and Colin that a good finish can be achieved.

Need to do some more reading before deciding on which to go for and which of their primer and/or undercoat needs to be used over Eze-Kote.

I will use the spray paint on other projects.

Chris

[Richard SimpsonParticipant @richardsimpson88330]

Chris in the next edition of Model Boats Magazine, due to hit the stands on June 17th, you can see a couple of pictures of the finish I got with the Craftmaster paints.

Edited By Richard Simpson on 06/06/2022 22:21:23

[Chris FellowsParticipant @chrisfellows72943]

Thanks Richard, I'm leaning towards the Craftmaster paints.

Did you use primer and undercoat?

Chris

[Ray Wood 3Participant @raywood3]

Hi Chris,

I havn't read Richard's article yet, but here are my top tips

Spend serious money on flat brushes say £10 each +

Keep your work as flat as possible

Don't wear anything wool

Paint late at night in a room without drafts & dust

Make a cardboard cover to go over the work when you have finished, reduces airborne dust settling

Use a primer of a similar colour, white is hard to cover with say green/blue. (Halfords Spray I use)

1200 wet & dry the Easy Cote.

Starter for 10

Regards Ray

[Chris EParticipant @chrise]

Ray

I haven't got Richards article yet but I am intrigued by your comment on brushes – flat & £10+.

Everybody knows brushes matter but what constitutes a good brush? It obviously is not what I have been buying.

[Ray Wood 3Participant @raywood3]

Hi Chris,

The finer the brush the better the finished result will be , I use watercolour wash brushes from art shops you basically get what you pay for

There are quite a few synthetic bristle brushes are good once but don't clean well and need throwing away after one use in my experience.

Regards Ray

[Richard SimpsonParticipant @richardsimpson88330]

Chris, I didn't bother with a primer but I rubbed down the 'West' epoxy coating with wet and dry to give a good key. I used a new soft flat brush of the same width as the planks so I could do a plank at a time and follow a long length as a finishing stroke.

[Chris FellowsParticipant @chrisfellows72943]

Thanks for the tips Ray.

I've been in touch with Craftmaster via email (very prompt response) and as you say Richard, they say primer isn't required as not painting onto a bare material, they have advised to use undercoat though.

Surprisingly, they say their enamel "isn't designed for immersion in water at all, not even for short periods". For canal boats its used for above the waterline and Toplac is I think the same, though I'd have to double check.

Given that some folks use household gloss and undercoat/Primer I can't see it being a problem, they are probably playing it safe.

Chris

[Chris FellowsParticipant @chrisfellows72943]

I see Eddie Lancaster used Craftmaster enamel in his Building Ardent thread.

Haven't heard from him for awhile and can't contact him as he doesn't have a Public Profile. Would be interested in knowing how the paint has stood up to water.

Chris

[Ray Wood 3Participant @raywood3]

Hi Chris,

Last time I contacted Eddie he was flying planes but that was last year !!

As your building a fleet of the best, give them the best paint

Store the tins upside down they last pretty much for ever .

Happy painting Ray

Edited By Ray Wood 2 on 07/06/2022 15:34:28

[Richard SimpsonParticipant @richardsimpson88330]

Posted by Chris Fellows on 07/06/2022 14:55:58:

Thanks for the tips Ray.

I've been in touch with Craftmaster via email (very prompt response) and as you say Richard, they say primer isn't required as not painting onto a bare material, they have advised to use undercoat though.

Surprisingly, they say their enamel "isn't designed for immersion in water at all, not even for short periods". For canal boats its used for above the waterline and Toplac is I think the same, though I'd have to double check.

Given that some folks use household gloss and undercoat/Primer I can't see it being a problem, they are probably playing it safe.

Chris

and yet their spec sheet says it is highly resistant to water. They need a little consistency.

[Chris EParticipant @chrise]

There is a big difference between a narrow boat that might be in the water for 5 years between inspections and a model boat that spends a couple of hours in the water at a time.

They almost certainly arn't saying that is your narrowboat gets covered in melting snow for a few days all the paint will fall off.

I doubt that Halfords would say that their red oxide undercoat is designed for underwater use either but it is widely used.

Your choice.

[Colin BishopModerator @colinbishop34627]

I use synthetic brushes usually from Hobbycraft. The white and gold Taklon type are good whlel Daler-Roweny are a step up. Prices are very reasonable and you can get lots of different sets.

**LINK**

Halford's red oxide primer is a very good colour match for antifouling and goes on very well but it marks easily if not protected by lacquer or varnish. Same applies to the grey primer which is a useful mid grey shade.

As far as white is concerned, the Halfords white plastic primer seems to be better than the standard white primer and can be used as a final coat if lacquer is applied. Varnish can give it a yellowish cast.

Colin

[Chris FellowsParticipant @chrisfellows72943]

Just repeating what they said Chris as I was a bit surprised – I did tell them that it was for use on model boats which would only be in the water for short periods of time. As I said, they are being careful and you can't blame them for that. They did say it would be Ok in rain!

As usual common sense has to be employed.

Thanks for the link Colin.

Chris

Edited By Chris Fellows on 07/06/2022 18:48:52

[Colin BishopModerator @colinbishop34627]

Luckily we have a Hobbycraft not too far away so it is easy to go in and browse the brushes on offer. Sometimes there are discounts

Colin

[Richard SimpsonParticipant @richardsimpson88330]

Posted by Chris E on 07/06/2022 16:51:29:

There is a big difference between a narrow boat that might be in the water for 5 years between inspections and a model boat that spends a couple of hours in the water at a time.

They almost certainly arn't saying that is your narrowboat gets covered in melting snow for a few days all the paint will fall off.

I doubt that Halfords would say that their red oxide undercoat is designed for underwater use either but it is widely used.

Your choice.

Tend to agree Chris. At least there is no way I'm going to remove it and I am pretty confident that it will be fine for model boat use.

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