Returning modeller

[Ray Wood 3Participant @raywood3]

Hi Jim,

Your Pilot Boat is looking a treat especially like the overlay strips on the hull it brings her to life !!

RC wise the radio is so cheap these days I buy a set for each boat I build, say £45 for a non memory/computer set but has servo reversing and rate switch's. My current favourite is the Planet 2+2 which has 2 sticks for steering and throttle and 2 more channels with knobs to control other stuff if needed ?

I spend 90% of my time building and visit the lake every week to sail something if the weather is fine, individual motor control in my view is an added complication and not worth the bother as you have twin rudders for steering, all my twin screw boats run off a single Mtronics speed controller fine, and I find the best batteries are the 6 cell sub C size Nmh they take alot of abuse Lipo's give more volts and are lighter but charging is much more complex but better for really fast boats.

Regards Ray

[Tim RoweParticipant @timrowe83142]

Note to myself

"Must but shares in Planet"

Tim R

[James Hill 5Participant @jameshill5]

To Richard Simpson, Malcolm Frary, Ray Wood and Tim Rowe,

Gentlemen, many thanks for your replies. I really need to do some more studying of Transmitters etc and relative attachments but I have say the Planet Tx is one I`d looked at in Howes store pages as being ideal for a newcomer and as Ray has pointed out, it has extra capability.

My biggest fear is getting bogged down in too much technology to the point where things become a real mystery where electronics is concerned.

My only experience of sailing so far has been on a two chanel setup ( Futaba ) from a good few years back now but worked well. Obvoiusly things have progressed a lot since then in all the equipment .

One thing I need to ask is, do all attachments have to be changed to suit 2.4ghz ?( I`m thinking of the standard servo I`ve used to set up the rudder control ) Sorry if that is a real dumb question!!

Ray, I hope you don`t mind, but I followed your rudder set up, works well. I had to change things slightly as there wasn`t enough room to get at the rudder post screws, so I turned them through 90degs. ( my hand took up all the space!!). The cabin and forward structure will all lift off and a I`ll hold it all in place using some brass tube glued in place in the deck and brass pins to locate.

Many thanks again for everyone`s help,

Regards,

Jim.

[Richard SimpsonParticipant @richardsimpson88330]

Your only concern regarding compatibility is the receiver and the transmitter. They have to be 'Bound' together to enable them to communicate.

This is why I personally like Spectrum as you can bind multiple receivers to the transmitter enabling you to use the one transmitter with many models. You cannot actually control more than one model at the same time however you can have two models on the water at the same time and switch between them as you choose. All you do is select the model from a list. I only mention it in case you envisage having more models in the future, as the more you have the more cost effective the Spectrum becomes. If you are only ever going to have a couple then a couple of planets makes more sense. I use my single Spectrum transmitter to control all my model boats, electric and steam, scale, Club 500 etc., a model aircraft, two Tamiya cars, and even a steam powered lorry.

All devices that plug into the receiver such as servos, speed controllers, switches etc plug into any reciever. The only caveat to that is that some plugs have a little location tab running down one side and if your receiver does not have the matching cut out for it then you will have to trim the tab off.

[James Hill 5Participant @jameshill5]

Thanks Richard,

As I`m 79 years old I don`t think I`ve got enough time left to build a whole number of boats as you have

There are a couple I have in mind, one of them being Rays Cigarette, It would be great to have one to sit alongside Surfury as I`m pretty sure the two types raced one another back in the 60`s.

I know a lot of builders on the forum have been modelling a long time but I`m staggered by the number of boats some seem to build, where do you find the time? I only came back into boats when I joined the forum last year. Previous to that, it`s been model railways.

Regards,

Jim.

[Ray Wood 3Participant @raywood3]

Hi Jim,

I'm constantly surrounded by model railways of many gauges, but as I don't exhibit they just evolve very gradually, but I do build boats and planes at a frantic rate just because I enjoy the process, you have plenty of models to plan ahead for ! which always find it helps making lists of materials for future projects, I always buy twice as much stuff as I need so the lockdown last year was a doddle

I never watch TV before 9.00pm or after 10.00pm that helps, although I do have a tv in the workshop I listen to it rather than watch it !! the only proper education I enjoyed has been listening to the Home Service and Radio 4 .

If you need any help with The Cigarette let me know, but it's such an easy build compared to you Pilot Boat, I doubt you'll need any

Regards Ray

[James Hill 5Participant @jameshill5]

Hi Ray,

It sounds like your workshop is like my garage, railway stuff and boats. The plane bit for me is a glider kit I bought many years ago, not even started yet.!

I really need to finish the Pilot boat before I start anything else or I`ll end up with part finished models. I can get on with detail on the boat at the moment while I wait for the electrical bits to arrive.

Like you, I tend to work till about 9pm and usually have the radio going.

I`ve just joined the Basingstoke Model Boat Club so am looking forward to going there to see what its like.

For now, it`s keep detailing.

Regards,

Jim.

[James Hill 5Participant @jameshill5]

I`ve just been given a model of a yacht, K4029. The previous owner bought it about 7 yrs ago but never got round to sailing it. I`m not sure how it was stored but I think it must have been outside at some time as there was some water inside the hull.

What I have been given is the hull ( which will need some work done on it as the deck is quite spongy ) I`m not sure if the hull is plastic or fibreglass with what I think are wooden deck panels, ( which I intend to try and replace ).

The radio gear is a 2.4Ghz 2 channel tx and receiver plus servos with pulleys attached. How much of it works I`m not sure though the Tx does when you put batteries in it.

My question is, can anyone point me in the right direction to get information on what the boat is, maybe who made it and how I go about setting up the electrics etc , as I have no experience of yacht sailing but would enjoy the challenge.

Dimensions are , the hull is 50 inches long, the keel length is 18 inches to the lead weight and the sails are around 6ft tall.

I haven`t looked inside the box with the sails in it yet as it`s qiute heavy and I`d likely end up with an appointment with the undertaker!

I`ve taken some pictures which, hopefuuly, will be on here.

Many thanks,

Regards,

Jim.

[Malcolm FraryParticipant @malcolmfrary95515]

Using the 50" length as the main clue, I'd say it's a Marblehead of some type. What particular design within that class, no idea. Maximum mast height is 85", but there is nothing to stop shorter rigs being used as long as the sail area measures at 800 square inches or less.

Since it has a registration number, the MYA might be able to fill in a bit of history.

Edited By Malcolm Frary on 07/08/2021 08:53:20

[James Hill 5Participant @jameshill5]

Thankyou for that Malcolm,

I`ve been looking around on the web and have seen several boats that look similar but I`ll try the MYA. It would be good to find out a bit of history if possible and then learn how to sail it sometime.

Regards,

Jim.

[Ray Wood 3Participant @raywood3]

Hello Jim,

Marblehead's were the popular racing class 30 – 40 years ago, but the cost of a competitive hull started to go through the roof so folk started moving over to the smaller 1 Metre class and the same has happened to that class with a hull for a Britpop going for £1800.00

The Tamco 2.4 radio works ok I have a set but the transmitter takes 8 AA batteries, yours maybe the same?

I hope the drum winch works ok ? for the marblehead.

Regards Ray

[James Hill 5Participant @jameshill5]

Hi Ray,

I`ve managed to get into the sail box this afternoon and it looks like there are three sets of sails, the tallest being around 7ft.

I`ve no idea where the chap bought the boat from or what he he paid for it. He only lives round the corner from me so next time I see him I` ll at least ask where it came from and who the manufacturer was.

I must admit it was a bit daunting when I saw the size of the sail box. I`d like to try and make something a bit lighter if possible, as, at the moment they lay flat and assembled in their box. I`ve taken some pictures but at present can`t get them to load on to the laptop properly.

At some point I want to work out how the electrics go together so will probably set everything out on a board and see if I can get some movement. As I said earlier , I know nothing about setting this up but I`ll give it a go.

The Tamco I have is 8AA batteries as well. I see the Planet uses ony four but has room for more.

First though , I need to get on and finish the pilot boat. I`m a little bit slow when it comes to scratch building

Thanks for your reply,

Regards,

Jim.

[James Hill 5Participant @jameshill5]

I`ve managed to get the electrics on the yacht tested and have had a bit of success.

The on/off swich is working. The servo for the rudder is working but there`s a problem with the servo with the pulley on it.

With power applied the servo rotates continually in one direction. When pushing the stick forward, it rotates the opposite way until it comes to a halt. Re centering the stick makes the pulley rotate continually as before in the previous direction. There`s no way I can get it to rotate in both directions and stop with the stick in the centre.

The Tx is a 4 chanel, 2.4 Ghz and the receiver is 4 chanel, both Tamco.

I`ve put a picture on to show the arrangement hoping someone might spot something I haven`t.

Many thanks ,

Jim.

[Dave Cooper 6Participant @davecooper6]

Hi Jim

A few possibilities :-

1. Search on-line for a manual /documentation for info' on your Tamco radio. See if there's anything specific to sail winches / continuous rotation servos.

2. Try the sail winch servo on your Futaba set – as shown on a previous photo (or any other radio for that matter).

The main idea is to prove if it's the servo that's the cause or, the radio. It could be that the Tx has to be set up in a specific way to achieve the desired results. I would certainly expect the feedback signal from the servo to the Rx to be different from a 'conventional' servo…

Good hunting, and perhaps one of the sailing experts has encountered this problem and can help.

Regards,

Dave

[Ray Wood 3Participant @raywood3]

Hi Jim,

The Tamco is not a very sophisticated set, just put your rudder servo in the receiver where you have had the winch and see if it self centres ? I should say the winch servo may have Had It !!

Your Pilot Boat's looking great

Regards Ray

[Malcolm FraryParticipant @malcolmfrary95515]

A servo tester is a wonderful thing. So cheap that everybody should have one.

A working servo can only do what the signal from the receiver tells it to do. How it interprets that information depends on the actual servo, a google for the make and model number of the servo should help.

A proportional winch should just settle to a position decided by the transmitter stick position, moving the stick should cause it to move to the new position. It really just another servo that turns a few hundred degrees rather than the usual 90.

If it is a continuous rotation servo, it should rotate continuously in one direction or the other either side of neutral.

A retract servo might be different again – I've never had one, somebody who has might chime in.

The motor and gearbox are OK, but the electronics might not be. The servo tester helps there, it cuts out anything that the radio system might be doing. A servo with added damp can run to one end of its possible travel and stay there because the damp has created a new component or two. A winch does the same, but takes longer to get there.

[Richard SimpsonParticipant @richardsimpson88330]

It sounds possibly like the channel you are using has been set up as an aircraft throttle with zero throttle when the stick is right back to full throttle when fully forward. You need to set it up as a boat or car throttle with the zero in the middle.

Some radios allow you to make this change easily but there may even be some that cannot. You usually have to make physical changes to the rear of the gimble by moving a spring position but you definitely need the manual for this.

[James Hill 5Participant @jameshill5]

Gentlemen, thankyou all for your replies. Several things for me to look into.

One mistake I made was that the Tamco Tx is 2 chanel and not 4 as I said. In my ignorance, would that make any difference when connected to the 4 chanel receiver?

As suggested, I will searh the web to see if I can find a manual at all. In the meantime I`ll try the things suggested.

All a good learning curve,

Many thanks,

Jim.

[Ray Wood 3Participant @raywood3]

Hi Jim,

No it just means only 2 channels from your receiver will not do anything

Regards Ray

[James Hill 5Participant @jameshill5]

Thanks Ray , and for the comment on the Pilot boat. Not a lot more detail to put on now and then it`s down to checking where the electrics will fit and gluing the deck down.

Regards, Jim.

[Ray Wood 3Participant @raywood3]

Hi Jim,

Thinking more about your winch you don't need it on a self centring function, If you have an up and down stick which isn't on a rachet or spring that will be the one for controlling the main sheet, set for the sail to be in at a close hauled position when down and all the way out for running with the wind when it's up

My old Tamco set has only 2 functions, you obviously have the posh 4 channel set !!

Regards Ray

[James Hill 5Participant @jameshill5]

Hi Ray,

The up and down stick on the left side of the Tx is self centering ,so it may well be that servo has been set to perform the way it does,

As I mentioned earlier, when centered, it runs clockwise continualy and no change with the stick pulled back. Stick forward gives about four rotations anti clockwise and then it just stops.

Still looking for a manual or similar to check things.

You can tell from my questions and explanations how green I am when It comes to sorting this sort of thing out!!

Regards ,

Jim.

[Dave Cooper 6Participant @davecooper6]

Sum'at's up lad !

As suggested you could either invest in a servo checker (recommended as, like a multi-meter, has all sorts of uses)..

Or, plug the suspect servo in to other channels /radios and see how it behaves. If it's the same everywhere, then I agree with Ray and you could either strip it for spares or bin it.

On the pilot cutter, I'm planning on putting sail control on the left-hand ('throttle&#39 stick with a ratchet. So, fully back on the stick will be close-hauled (beating to windward), and fully forward will be sails right out (running before the wind). Centre, or thereabouts, will be for reaching. Later on, I'll probably go for individual sail control but that's getting more advanced ! This is just a personal preference of course…

Don't give up -there's an answer there somewhere,

Dave

[Malcolm FraryParticipant @malcolmfrary95515]

Winches come in two varieties.

The most common type on sailboats is a proportional type. Whatever position the stick on the transmitter is in, or5 is set to, so the winch assumes that position. Sometimes eventually, sometimes very quickly. Depends on the particular type.

Non-proportional winches have a couple of sub-types. If everything is adjusted as it should be, "spring centre" should result in neutral.

Easiest to understand is the simple motor + gearbox worked by switches off a servo. Throw one way, it winds in, throw the other, it winds out, in both cases, flat out.

Easier to fit is effectively a continuous rotation servo which is really a motor and gearbox driven by its own self contained ESC. When at neutral, like any other servo, it sits still. When the stick is moved, it drives, one way or t'other. As its movement approaches that indicated by the stick, the motor slows. If it drives without the stick being moved, the system "thinks" that the stick is not at neutral.

A non-proportional setup is best with a centring stick – a ratchet stick is more suited to a proportional winch. Less stress keeping the left thumb steady. Getting the centre offered by the stick to match that required by the winch is the trick. If there is no adjustment option on the winch, what is left is the transmitter trim slider.

It doesn't matter what it was set up for, in radio control, what matters is the pulse length that comes out of the receiver. As a sort of standard, a bit longer than 1.25mS corresponds to a servo plugged into that channel being full left. 1.5mS puts the servo centre. 1.75mS puts it full right. On a normal boat ESC, this corresponds to full reverse, neutral, full forward. Or if a winch, drive out, stop, drive in. On a "forward only" ESC, 1.25mS is stop or maybe idle, 1.5mS is half speed, 1.75mS is full forward. This is true whether the transmitter is sprung or ratcheted.

If it drives to one end and stops there and won't be controlled back, its broken. Or the winches centre is so far out that stick movement doesn't go far enough. The servo tester will show this fairly instantly.

[James Hill 5Participant @jameshill5]

Thank you for the replies,

A servo tester will be bought and at least I will have a starting point.

Looking on the web, Amazon seem to have the biggest choice so will pick one and see what results I get when testing the rogue servo.

Regards,

Jim.

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