New members to our hobby

[Paul TParticipant @pault84577]

A discussion that has been rumbling around our hobby for some time is how to attract new members to our hobby.

Paul Freshney edits the magazine to show a wide variety of different model boat subjects, Colin makes the website as fresh and accessible as possible and the Mayhem site is always vibrant (if a little confrontational) but do these actually appeal to new members or simply satisfy the needs of the already converted.

Clubs and some individuals make strident efforts to engage the interest of younger people and events such as the Model Boat Convention draw a huge amount of passing interest.

But are we missing a trick?

What are we offering to captivate the enthusiasm of todays young people, in our younger days we has all manor of kits and plans to absorb our time but do these old kits and plans hold the same fascination for todays hi tec young people.

Paul

[Paul TParticipant @pault84577]

[Dodgy Geezer 1Participant @dodgygeezer1]

My experience suggests that if you give a child a stretch of water, they'll play in it.

And, as you say, there is certainly some consideration of younger modellers out there – I see 'junior' competitions and 'build a simple boat' web pages around quite often. But what I don't see is kids in modelling shops, and model kits in toy shops.

Under a capitalist system, that means that the demand's not there. The shops would soon stock these items if they made a profit on them, so the question is why are kids, who are naturally attracted to water and mud, not following their urges?

I think there are several reasons why demand has dropped – many of which we share with other sectors of the modelling hobby.

1 – the rise of computer games has increased home-based entertainment

2 – A consumer-driven world has increased the demand for 'immediate satisfaction'. I'm sure you all remember the 'Stanford Marshmallow experiment' (google if you don't!). Making a model boat is a classic example of 'deferred gratification'. Perhaps we could sell this to educational psychologists…?

2 – the rise of a 'child protection' ethos has limited unrestricted childhood play. Nowadays, if you allow your child to go out unescorted you run the risk of being charged with endangering them. And you can't escort all the time.

3 – the rise of 'health and safety bylaws'. As a result, access to water is much more limited, and many boating ponds in parks have been destroyed. This is perhaps the main reason – like the flyboys who lost their flying fields, we have lost our ponds to officialdom.

4 – 'Environmentalism' has also played a part – many ponds are now 'nature reserves' where boating is banned.

5 – And legal issues – lawyers can produce a list as long as your arm of diseases and accidents that the council could be sued for if they were to allow unrestricted access to a stream.

6 – ponds and lakes that ARE available tend to be very controlled. Instead of being 'common water', the council license a Model Club to use them, which requires membership, insurance, subscriptions, etc. You have to be quite keen before you do all that…

There are a good few talking points…

[Colin BishopModerator @colinbishop34627]

All the points made by DG are very valid, I think he sums it up very well. The 'delayed gratification' issue is particularly pertinent. In Ye Olde Days modelling meant making something yourself, either from scratch or from one of the kits that were available. Now many people seem to regard building a kit as 'scratchbuilding' and many of the posts on the Forums come from people who have bought something on Ebay or as RTR models. Little, if any real value is placed by many people on the actual construction process.

To be fair, even people who consider themselves 'scratchbuilders' will purchase fittings because it saves time and they are probably better quality than you can make yourself. In the past, if you wanted it you often had to make it. Now you can just buy it, frequently for peanuts!

Early kits were always considered to be a bit second rate because a good modeller could usually build something a lot better from scratch but the quality of some of the latest kits is bordering on museum standard which does discourage people from 'going the long way round'. A remaining benefit of true scratchbuilding is that you can effectively build something which is unique and nobody else has one but people still want to build Bismarcks and Titanics and other subjects that have been done to death.

Colin

Edited By Colin Bishop, Website Editor on 11/01/2016 14:04:18

[Paul TParticipant @pault84577]

What has stuck in my mind is a conversation that I overheard at the Haydock Model Boat Convention, a father talking to his young son asked if the lad if he was enjoying the show to which the boy, who was about seven answered ‘yes but everything is old and where are the spaceships?’

At first I thought that the child was confused over what ships were but later on when I recounted the conversation to Jane she had a different view, perhaps the boy was looking for the space age kind of ships and boats that he has seen in comics and films and that his comment about ‘old’ referred to the old fashioned models that were on display.

So this is my question are we, despite our best efforts, stuck in some kind of bygone times backwater where Tugs, Torpedo Boats and Cabin Cruisers are merely memories from the summer time of our long lost childhoods and unfortunately have as much relevance to the youth of today as a hoop & stick did to us

[Paul TParticipant @pault84577]

As DG says these are good talking points so let us explore them further.

My experience suggests that if you give a child a stretch of water, they'll play in it.

Yes, my children and now my grandchildren all love to play in water.

And, as you say, there is certainly some consideration of younger modellers out there – I see 'junior' competitions and 'build a simple boat' web pages around quite often. But what I don't see is kids in modelling shops, and model kits in toy shops.

Under a capitalist system, that means that the demand's not there. The shops would soon stock these items if they made a profit on them, so the question is why are kids, who are naturally attracted to water and mud, not following their urges?

Perhaps the fault, if it is a fault, lies with the busy parents and the lack of available free time to encourage children in model building. Or is it that the parents themselves having never been taught practical skills (woodwork, metalwork etc.) simply don't know how build models.

I think there are several reasons why demand has dropped – many of which we share with other sectors of the modelling hobby.

1 – the rise of computer games has increased home-based entertainment

Computer games are certainly prevalent as are mobile phones and 'facebook' but the children of the 50s, 60s & 70s all had their own particular types of alternative entertainment so this might not be such a valid point.

2 – A consumer-driven world has increased the demand for 'immediate satisfaction'. I'm sure you all remember the 'Stanford Marshmallow experiment' (google if you don't!). Making a model boat is a classic example of 'deferred gratification'. Perhaps we could sell this to educational psychologists…?

I agree up to a point, we have all seen the rise of 'almost ready to run' models but these are very expensive and primarily aimed at adults so perhaps the marshmallow theory might not apply. My own grandson loves to build and experiment and isn't really interested in off the shelf toys, I think most children like to experiment and as such qualify for deferred gratification.

2 – the rise of a 'child protection' ethos has limited unrestricted childhood play. Nowadays, if you allow your child to go out unescorted you run the risk of being charged with endangering them. And you can't escort all the time.

This is unfortunately a sign of our times and is compounded by the lack of free time that many parents suffer from these days.

3 – the rise of 'health and safety bylaws'. As a result, access to water is much more limited, and many boating ponds in parks have been destroyed. This is perhaps the main reason – like the flyboys who lost their flying fields, we have lost our ponds to officialdom.

I'm not sure that health and safety as much as the desire to sell off public assets has brought us to this sad state of affairs but the fact remains that many ponds have been lost, on the other hand some local authorities have maintained their boating ponds and improved them with the help of clubs, Runcorn's Heath Lake is a case in point.

4 – 'Environmentalism' has also played a part – many ponds are now 'nature reserves' where boating is banned.

Yes I agree, what is needed is a strong minded individual or club to argue the cause for taking the water back for 'cultural activities'

5 – And legal issues – lawyers can produce a list as long as your arm of diseases and accidents that the council could be sued for if they were to allow unrestricted access to a stream.

Councils can be persuaded to allow clubs to take on the management of waterways see 6

6 – ponds and lakes that ARE available tend to be very controlled. Instead of being 'common water', the council license a Model Club to use them, which requires membership, insurance, subscriptions, etc. You have to be quite keen before you do all that…

You do have to be keen or try and find a canal.

There are a good few talking points…

[Dodgy Geezer 1Participant @dodgygeezer1]

So this is my question are we, despite our best efforts, stuck in some kind of bygone times backwater where Tugs, Torpedo Boats and Cabin Cruisers are merely memories from the summer time of our long lost childhoods and unfortunately have as much relevance to the youth of today as a hoop & stick did to us…

I'd be surprised at the boy that isn't interested in a big model of a warship from WW1 onwards. Perhaps we are suffering from the well-documented lack of history teaching in modern schooling…

 

Perhaps different parts of the country have different issues. Certainly 'down south' the parks seem to have turned into dog exercise yards, and any free water is either a fishing lake or a nature reserve.  If you have no facilities for beginner boat modellers, you will have no beginner boat modellers.

I recall that during the 1970s the national organisations for model flying provided resources for fighting councils who wanted to close flying fields – is there any national body lobbying councils on behalf of model boat ponds…?

 

Edited By Dodgy Geezer on 11/01/2016 15:19:05

[Paul TParticipant @pault84577]

Perhaps we are suffering from the well-documented lack of history teaching in modern schooling…

And woodwork, metalwork, technical drawing, science. When my son was at school in the mid 90s the science teacher spent the lessons over a 2 week period showing the class how to wire a plug.

I don't know what schools teach these days.

[Colin BishopModerator @colinbishop34627]

The MPBA used to be active in promoting the hobby but since most scale model boaters decided that they weren't much interested in competitive events any more, membership has plunged. There are some competition classes such as fast electrics but the numbers were with the scale side. The UK no longer has much of an international model boating presence either. We used to field teams for most of the NAVIGA classes but that has all gone now.

Like it or not, I rather think that you just have to accept that the tide has gone out just as with other interests that used to be popular. In a few years time, many of the current model boaters will no longer be active and the hobby will become even more of a niche interest. It is unlikely to die out entirely but I don't think it will see a resurgence either, certainly not in its present form.

I also wonder about model flying. Piloting a model helicopter used to be something that took a great deal of skill but I should imagine that technology has taken much of the traditional fun out of it now that you can just walk into Maplins and come out with a cheap fully stabilised drone which you can use to spy on your neighbours!

Colin

[Paul TParticipant @pault84577]

In a few years time, many of the current model boaters will no longer be active and the hobby will become even more of a niche interest. It is unlikely to die out entirely but I don't think it will see a resurgence either, certainly not in its present form.

Hi Colin

Does this reflect the feelings of the management?

[Colin BishopModerator @colinbishop34627]

No Paul, it is just a personal logical observation from attending shows where I appear to be among the younger visitors – and I'm 67!

Cheers(!)

Colin

[Dodgy Geezer 1Participant @dodgygeezer1]

Posted by Colin Bishop, Website Editor on 11/01/2016 17:17:50:

Like it or not, I rather think that you just have to accept that the tide has gone out just as with other interests that used to be popular. In a few years time, many of the current model boaters will no longer be active and the hobby will become even more of a niche interest. It is unlikely to die out entirely but I don't think it will see a resurgence either, certainly not in its present form.

I also wonder about model flying. Piloting a model helicopter used to be something that took a great deal of skill but I should imagine that technology has taken much of the traditional fun out of it now that you can just walk into Maplins and come out with a cheap fully stabilised drone which you can use to spy on your neighbours!

Colin

 

The drone flyers are set for a huge expansion as FirstPersonView racing becomes popular. You can, as you say, go into Maplins and come out with a drone which you can fly in a park.

You can also go into Maplins (or onto a Chinese web site) and come out with a Ready-to-Run fast boat. But where will you run it?

I recall looking at the model boat pond in St Albans and the Round Pond in Kensington Gardens this summer. The St Albans pond had a bird's nest built on it and the pond sides were swamped with guano – the Round Pond was filled with weeds. No boating on either of them… 

 

Edited By Dodgy Geezer on 11/01/2016 18:52:16

[Colin BishopModerator @colinbishop34627]

I used to run my boats at the Round Pond and great fun it was but in those days you could park for free along the road near the Albert Hall!

I even won a competition once where you had to nominate the time it would take your boat to circumnavigate the pond.

Colin

[Paul TParticipant @pault84577]

Why don't people sail in Kensington Gardens anymore?

Has there been a change in park rules

[Colin BishopModerator @colinbishop34627]

You have to get your boat there Paul!

Colin

[Paul TParticipant @pault84577]

Is that the only reason.

If you asked someone to drop you off or take one of those black cabs and carried a smallish boat into Kensington Gardens could you actually sail it?

Paul

[Colin BishopModerator @colinbishop34627]

It is still used for sailing events I believe, weed permitting.

Colin

[ashley needhamParticipant @ashleyneedham69188]

I have said it before, but the reason I make funny boats/whatever is that I started making them to keep Berengar (was 7 then) keen on boating. He liked Top Gear…I made TopGear craft….he liked aeroplanes….I made aeroplanes and so on.

The craft on the water that attract children are the unusual things. No small or medium sized child is interested in a tug or fishing boat unless there is small person interest on it….fish, dogs, figures, flashing lights…smoke from funnel or it has a water squirter or is towing a barge with Thomas on it….

BUT….the ferry…with loads of figures on it waving and so on…Andy`s croc or Iains hippo…or the top gear stuff or flying boats, subs ..or , unfortunately, things that are very fast…. these are what attracts the young'uns.

Yes show audiences are getting on a bit, but do the granddads bring the grand children to foster a bit of the dark side?? No, and if they did , what is there at a lot of boat shows to interest them? I collect plastic soldiers, and every year there is a big plastic figure show/fair organised by the enthusiast run team that produces a magazine (Plastic Warrior) and I have always taken the lad along…but for a long time he was usually the only child there…I ask you…If you do not foster interest "in house" then the end is nigh.

Perhaps some "easy kits", such as Airfix etc are making (to tempt kids into making something without actually trying too hard) would be the way forward? But then how big would the market be for such things.

Perhaps the manufacturers themselves should be thinking of this, after all, as and when the current lot of modellers pass away…who will buy the stuff then?

I had a deja vu experience a few years ago at the Milestones living history museum (a complete small town with turn of the century shops and things in) when a small boy looked at the window of a period toy shop, and amongst the lovely toys, including some wonderful clockwork steam engines and tin plate jobbies, the only thing he identified as a train was a Thomas tank engine. That the others were trains did not seem to register with him…and continuing on, I don't recall the parent pointing anything else out either .

Ashley

[Paul TParticipant @pault84577]

Colin, DG

So apart from parking, the occasional bit of weed and apathy there is in point of fact nothing wrong with the model sailing facility at Kensington Gardens.

Would it be the case that if people actually used the resource then the park staff would take better care of it and that far from bemoaning its loss we are in reality victims of our own indifference.

Obviously I don't know if any of the Kensington locals are model boaters but there must be some members of our endangered species within a couple of miles of these ponds.

If I lived close by I would certainly like to blast one of my petrol powered boats along the Serpentine especially the part near Park Lane.

Paul

[Ian JopsonParticipant @ianjopson21383]

Every 'old' hobby seems to have this problem these days, (though I noticed the local archery club had a glut of youngsters at their recent 'try it out' nights) so it's not just boating. I don't know the answer, either. When I was a lad I'd go into the shed with dad, who built a few galleons and started me off. I remember one of the kit manufacturers did a range of small motorized models, and I had an American rescue launch that operated on a relatives pond. Perhaps if one of todays makers could do something similar (and allow provision for later radio control) at a reasonable price, it might catch on. Then again, it could be just us dyed in the wool modellers who bought the things rather than the expensive RTR currently available.

I think a combination of factors, national, local and familial, plus the change in leisure technology, all play a part. Think of your childhood when you could mess around with chemicals and blow things up, make your own radio, go-kart, etc., all with no, or very little, supervision. This doesn't happen to the same extent today. I can't see it changing much in the future. We can only do our little bit with the circle around us. I've started by inviting my son and his new stepson (9yrs) to Leamington in the Autumn. It may work.

Ian

[Dodgy Geezer 1Participant @dodgygeezer1]

….The craft on the water that attract children are the unusual things. No small or medium sized child is interested in a tug or fishing boat unless there is small person interest on it….fish, dogs, figures, flashing lights…smoke from funnel or it has a water squirter or is towing a barge with Thomas on it….

You can lead someone by pushing, or pulling.

But it's generally better if the person being led does the pushing and pulling themselves….

The stories above sound rather similar to the complaint of the parent who buys an expensive toy as a Christmas present and finds that the kid is more interested in playing with the box. The point is that kids won't be interested in something their parents think they OUGHT to be interested in. They are interested in THEIR world. Being dragged round an exhibition because Daddy wants to go is hardly the best introduction to a hobby…

Does anyone here remember knocking a few nails in a piece of fence-post? Or drilling a hole for a length of dowel, and tying a handkerchief to it for a sail? Those scraps of wood were, not to put too fine a point upon it, rubbish – and yet they were the best boats in the world, because we had MADE them OURSELVES.

That's one of the major reasons that I have put the EeZeBilt plans out onto the web. These are simple little kits, small and cheap, which nonetheless look like real boats, not planks of wood. They also have fairly unique feature – once the wood is cut up (as it would be in a die-cut kit) it is easy for a kid to make them up themselves with MINIMAL OR NO HELP from an adult. So they're quick and easy to make, and they give a kid a sense of accomplishment.

They're a bit small for anything bigger than a pond – but that's fine – they will spend most of their life proudly displayed on a shelf anyway. But they were specifically designed to 'hook' kids into the hobby, NOT to 'push' them.

I had hoped that readers of these boards would spend an hour or two cutting out EeZeBilt boat parts from 1/16" balsa, and then give them to a grandchild when they came round to visit. Or have them ready in the shed when a kid pops round. EeZeBilt kits slot together like an egg-box, and can be made in the hand.

The trick is not to offer help unless necessary. Show them how to use glue and pins, and leave them to it. What you're looking for is for the kid to proudly show his daddy an assemblage of balsa and say "Look, Dad, I made this myself!" That's the way kids will start in the hobby…

[Ray Wood 3Participant @raywood3]

Unfortunately ready made models that work are freely available from China at minimal cost and take the challenge element of making the model away. In the 1960's being still a practical nation who constructed things the KeilKraft catalogue was some boys book of dreams in my case the bible. Progress moves on in all aspects of life and once the computer arrived as a way of making a living the practical skills were looked down upon to a degree.

Fortunately we can only lead by example, and my grandsons enjoy my workshop almost as much as I do, this is a haven with boats,planes & trains to build or just fiddle with.

They also let me play on their £300 Xbox's so its a two way process.

I'm hoping after they have married and had their own children they copy grandad and set up workshops as I did and get modelling in 2036 so I think the hobby has a future

[Dodgy Geezer 1Participant @dodgygeezer1]

Posted by Ray Wood 2 on 12/01/2016 15:19:34:

….Unfortunately ready made models that work are freely available from China at minimal cost and take the challenge element of making the model away. In the 1960's being still a practical nation who constructed things the KeilKraft catalogue was some boys book of dreams in my case the bible….

You're NOT selling the opportunity to have a boat. You're selling the opportunity to make something on their own for themselves. RTR boats are no competition for that.

You might like to know that the marine version of the KK Bible is published on the net – here

[Colin BishopModerator @colinbishop34627]

Paul, If you lived within striking distance of Kensington Gardens you would be a multi millionaire and unlikely to be interested in model boating!

Colin

Edited By Colin Bishop, Website Editor on 13/01/2016 13:10:49

[Kev.WParticipant @kev-w]

Posted by Colin Bishop, Website Editor on 12/01/2016 16:25:20:

Paul, If you loved within striking distance of Kensington Gardens you would be a multi millionaire and unlikely to be interested in model boating!

Colin

Oh I don't know about that Colin, there's a "multi millionair" called Pete Waterman who has a fantastic interest in model railways, who's to say there isn't a model boater in Kensington, with an RC model of the yacht he has moored in Monte Carlo …

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